Two feet was an educated guess.
1. If your multi-path is caused by the distant horizon then you strong spots will probably be arrayed horizontally and spaced 10 to 20 feet apart.
2. If your multi-path is caused by a ground reflection then the strong spots will be arrayed vertically and spaced probably about 3-5 feet apart.
3. If you multi-path is caused by a tree directly in front of the antenna then your strong spots will probably be arrayed very randomly.
A two-foot drop should make it apparent if #2 is your problem.
Richard/Ken or anybody need more advice on OTA antenna
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kq6qv
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mjm76
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Ken,
This afternoon I tried to tune in the FOX channel by using the rotor only and trying different locations. The Fox channel was coming in the best when by antenna was pointing either north-west or north east. Each time I was able to get only a bad to normal signal..........with the signal fading to bad at least every minute or two. The picture would pixelate alot but then return to normal. If I was trying to watch a movie I would miss a lot of the dialog....................lol.
My original plan was to keep my old antenna and put this UHF antenna at the east end of my house on a pole due to that area being the only area that is almost to the right of my neghbors tree. Even though my neghbors tree could possibly still interfere with the signal it would not be directly behind it like the old antenna was. But the installer did not have the proper bracket to install my CM telescopic pole on the side of my brick house. My guttering hangs over the side of my house 24 inches and thus I would need a bracket that would attach to my brick wall and extend out from 24 to 30 inches. The telescopic pole that I had bought was 30 feet tall. I still think this may be the way to go but I can not find the proper size bracket to buy. Since the installer could not get me a bracket I made the decision to take the chance and go ahead and replace my old antenna with the 9032 UHF and so far I regret the decision to do that.
I am considering having the installer put back up my old antenna and trying the rotor with it to see if it may pull in the STL stations. The old antenna would now be 2 to 3 feet higher due to the rotor assembly so maybe it might do even better now.................and then if this does not achieve the results I am looking for then I would try and get a bracket and another rotor and put up the telescopic CM pole at the end of my house and hope for the best.
I still think with everything I have tried that my main problem is my neighbors huge tree. I would pay him to cut it down but I am sure he would not want to since it provides shade for his back yard and deck.
Any thoughts on this?
Again guys I really do appreciate everybody's help. This forum is great for people helping other people out.
This afternoon I tried to tune in the FOX channel by using the rotor only and trying different locations. The Fox channel was coming in the best when by antenna was pointing either north-west or north east. Each time I was able to get only a bad to normal signal..........with the signal fading to bad at least every minute or two. The picture would pixelate alot but then return to normal. If I was trying to watch a movie I would miss a lot of the dialog....................lol.
My original plan was to keep my old antenna and put this UHF antenna at the east end of my house on a pole due to that area being the only area that is almost to the right of my neghbors tree. Even though my neghbors tree could possibly still interfere with the signal it would not be directly behind it like the old antenna was. But the installer did not have the proper bracket to install my CM telescopic pole on the side of my brick house. My guttering hangs over the side of my house 24 inches and thus I would need a bracket that would attach to my brick wall and extend out from 24 to 30 inches. The telescopic pole that I had bought was 30 feet tall. I still think this may be the way to go but I can not find the proper size bracket to buy. Since the installer could not get me a bracket I made the decision to take the chance and go ahead and replace my old antenna with the 9032 UHF and so far I regret the decision to do that.
I am considering having the installer put back up my old antenna and trying the rotor with it to see if it may pull in the STL stations. The old antenna would now be 2 to 3 feet higher due to the rotor assembly so maybe it might do even better now.................and then if this does not achieve the results I am looking for then I would try and get a bracket and another rotor and put up the telescopic CM pole at the end of my house and hope for the best.
I still think with everything I have tried that my main problem is my neighbors huge tree. I would pay him to cut it down but I am sure he would not want to since it provides shade for his back yard and deck.
Any thoughts on this?
Again guys I really do appreciate everybody's help. This forum is great for people helping other people out.
Last edited by mjm76 on Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Richard
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mjm76,
I am really perplexed by all this having tested 5 different antennas in the same location, mulitpath hell and lots of trees, with the 9032 outperforming all of them including the venerable CM4228. The fact that you cannot change out the antenna yourself or maintain it makes this even more difficult.
The only thing I have run into that was similar was an intermittent balun which drove me nuts since just moving the antenna would fix it for some length of time and then viola, marginal signal or dead channels.
One huge difference is I used an NTSC analog tuner for many of the evaluations and it is a great signal meter if you know what to look for. This was in fact what clued me into the balun problem since one day I checked the signal immediately with the VCR and noted that while the antenna was turning the signal strength would change, more snow less snow or sometimes severe snow as if a switch was being thrown. In your case I would have looked at those channels while the guy was there, have him change the antenna and check again. If the channels had more snow I would have told him right away to check all the connections and if nothing came from that have him change the balun. Using this method the 9032 should look equal to or better than your combo.
(Actually if you have one the first step is a simple indoor antenna. The combo should outperform it dramatically and if not then your install is suspect) First step would be to remove the preamp and check your NTSC reception with the old antenna. Swap it with the 9032 and you should have the same or better. Install the preamp. Should have same or better.
I am really perplexed by all this having tested 5 different antennas in the same location, mulitpath hell and lots of trees, with the 9032 outperforming all of them including the venerable CM4228. The fact that you cannot change out the antenna yourself or maintain it makes this even more difficult.
The only thing I have run into that was similar was an intermittent balun which drove me nuts since just moving the antenna would fix it for some length of time and then viola, marginal signal or dead channels.
One huge difference is I used an NTSC analog tuner for many of the evaluations and it is a great signal meter if you know what to look for. This was in fact what clued me into the balun problem since one day I checked the signal immediately with the VCR and noted that while the antenna was turning the signal strength would change, more snow less snow or sometimes severe snow as if a switch was being thrown. In your case I would have looked at those channels while the guy was there, have him change the antenna and check again. If the channels had more snow I would have told him right away to check all the connections and if nothing came from that have him change the balun. Using this method the 9032 should look equal to or better than your combo.
(Actually if you have one the first step is a simple indoor antenna. The combo should outperform it dramatically and if not then your install is suspect) First step would be to remove the preamp and check your NTSC reception with the old antenna. Swap it with the 9032 and you should have the same or better. Install the preamp. Should have same or better.
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mjm76
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Ken,
I appreciate this information about the trees(s). This is exactly what I think "MY MAIN" problem is now after 4 days of fooling around with the rotor and moving the antenna all over the place to try and get a good signal. My signal is jumping around all over the place. I have to point the antenna in one direction for the daytime and another at night. Normally at night I have a lot better signal on my STL stations including FOX which I normally can not get during the day and on very warm days.
I appreciate you telling me about your experience with the higher antenna and then a lower one. This makes me feel like this is not a HOPELESS endeaver with this antenna.
After what you have told me I am more convinced that I should try and find a wall bracket for the telescopic mast and attached it to the end of my house.
My only concern is if it will be enough to get a better signal away from the trees. My end of my house is almost even with the right side of the tree(leaves stick out), but like I mentioned before this tree is approximately 50 yards from my house. I was going to try and put the mast toward the front of my house which would add another 10 yards away from the tree making it almost 60 yards away. North(STL stations) would be just a little bit left of the tree(alittle meaning less than 5 feet).
What is your opinion of the proposed positioning of the UHF antenna? I am optimistic that it should work. I am basing this on the direction that I am having to aim the UHF antenna now to pick up the FOX channel(which I can sometimes). This direction is north-east or sometimes east which is where I am planning to relocate the antenna. BTW: this relocation of the antenna would only be approximately 15 feet to the east on my roof.
Thanks again for the info.
Mike
I appreciate this information about the trees(s). This is exactly what I think "MY MAIN" problem is now after 4 days of fooling around with the rotor and moving the antenna all over the place to try and get a good signal. My signal is jumping around all over the place. I have to point the antenna in one direction for the daytime and another at night. Normally at night I have a lot better signal on my STL stations including FOX which I normally can not get during the day and on very warm days.
I appreciate you telling me about your experience with the higher antenna and then a lower one. This makes me feel like this is not a HOPELESS endeaver with this antenna.
After what you have told me I am more convinced that I should try and find a wall bracket for the telescopic mast and attached it to the end of my house.
My only concern is if it will be enough to get a better signal away from the trees. My end of my house is almost even with the right side of the tree(leaves stick out), but like I mentioned before this tree is approximately 50 yards from my house. I was going to try and put the mast toward the front of my house which would add another 10 yards away from the tree making it almost 60 yards away. North(STL stations) would be just a little bit left of the tree(alittle meaning less than 5 feet).
What is your opinion of the proposed positioning of the UHF antenna? I am optimistic that it should work. I am basing this on the direction that I am having to aim the UHF antenna now to pick up the FOX channel(which I can sometimes). This direction is north-east or sometimes east which is where I am planning to relocate the antenna. BTW: this relocation of the antenna would only be approximately 15 feet to the east on my roof.
Thanks again for the info.
Mike
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mjm76
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Ken,I am a little puzzled by the directions you mention. You will not get a suitably strong signal (at 70 miles) by pointing the antenna more than 10 degrees off the true direction to the station. -Ken
Even with an UHF antenna??? It seems that from my experience with this UHF antenna that it has to find the strong spots for each channel, just pointing it in the same direction as my old combo will not get most of the channels. So a lot of movement is needed with it each and every day.
I am also very puzzled by having to point the UHF antenna in the easternly direction instead of north where the signal is. The only thing I can figure is that the digital signals are being deflected aroung the tree somehow. As I mentioned toward the east of my house is toward the edge of the tree and I would assume where the strongest signal would be coming from since 1 degree on the compass is just to the right of the tree.
I know this does not make a lot of sense but that is the direction that I have to point my antenna to get the FOX channel the best. At night I have been able to get it but it is very difficult during the day.
If you can think of anything else that would help me please let me know.
You have been a tremendous help to me and I appreciate it.
Something real strange tonight.......... at around 8PM I checked my STL stations and they were coming in around the normal reading even the hard to get FOX channel then at 10 PM without me moving the antenna I could not get any of the STL channels..............I do not know what is going on............... the weather is cool this evening and is humid(almost fog) so I guess this may be causing the problem but this is the first evening that I could not tune in my strongest STL station by moving the rotor and tuning it in. It would never tune in no matter where I put the rotor. STRANGE............................
Thanks again.
Mike
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mjm76
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Ken,
I just got home from work and read your post and I tuned the fox channel in by moving my 9032 antenna and the best signal at this moment 5:45PM central time is with the antenna pointing EAST( I get in the normal reading range(meter is bad, normal or good on my Sony HD300). But it fades to bad maybe every 3 to 5 minutes but it comes back to normal. On your link above with the 9032 pattern my tip of the antenna is pointing at almost the 90 degree mark(which is east). According to the maps I have seen which I can not seem to find now the STL Fox towers are at 1 degree on the compass with O degrees being directly north. My zip code is 63640.
Ken,
I do not own a digital camera. I have thought about getting one but I just have not pulled the trigger yet on one. LOL................
maybe this is a good time to talk to my wife and get one?????? LOL.........
Just noticed something that may help you or me. The Fox channel that I am trying to tune in is 43.3.
My other STL channels are 56(CBS), 35(NBC), 30.1(ABC), 26(WB) 39(PBS), 47.1(UPN)
I just got home from work and read your post and I tuned the fox channel in by moving my 9032 antenna and the best signal at this moment 5:45PM central time is with the antenna pointing EAST( I get in the normal reading range(meter is bad, normal or good on my Sony HD300). But it fades to bad maybe every 3 to 5 minutes but it comes back to normal. On your link above with the 9032 pattern my tip of the antenna is pointing at almost the 90 degree mark(which is east). According to the maps I have seen which I can not seem to find now the STL Fox towers are at 1 degree on the compass with O degrees being directly north. My zip code is 63640.
Ken,
I do not own a digital camera. I have thought about getting one but I just have not pulled the trigger yet on one. LOL................
maybe this is a good time to talk to my wife and get one?????? LOL.........Just noticed something that may help you or me. The Fox channel that I am trying to tune in is 43.3.
My other STL channels are 56(CBS), 35(NBC), 30.1(ABC), 26(WB) 39(PBS), 47.1(UPN)
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mjm76
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Richard said: (Actually if you have one the first step is a simple indoor antenna. The combo should outperform it dramatically and if not then your install is suspect) First step would be to remove the preamp and check your NTSC reception with the old antenna. Swap it with the 9032 and you should have the same or better. Install the preamp. Should have same or better.
Richard,
With your above statement are you saying that I should have the same reception with the 9032 as my old combo on my analog channels(NTSC)?
My analog channels from STL are 2,4,5,11. Channel 30 is also a local station but it is UHF only. None of these come in as well on the 9032 as my old one but I thought the 9032 being only a UHF antennal should not get good reception on the VHF channels(?NTSC?).
Could you tell me if I am understanding what you are suggesting above.
Also I was going over the connections in the directions and in the directions it says to hook up the coaxial/cable lead. It also mentions about hooking up another lead(VHF) is you are using a VHF coupling block with a VHF antenna. I am only using the 9032 alone and not with an attached VHF antenna so the directions make me believe that if a VHF coupling block is not being used then you would only hook up one lead and not the VHF lead. From looking at my antenna from the ground it appears that there are two leads hooked up instead of one. Could this lead being hooked into a VHF coupling block cause some problems with my antenna.
Again thanks for all your help.
Richard,
With your above statement are you saying that I should have the same reception with the 9032 as my old combo on my analog channels(NTSC)?
My analog channels from STL are 2,4,5,11. Channel 30 is also a local station but it is UHF only. None of these come in as well on the 9032 as my old one but I thought the 9032 being only a UHF antennal should not get good reception on the VHF channels(?NTSC?).
Could you tell me if I am understanding what you are suggesting above.
Also I was going over the connections in the directions and in the directions it says to hook up the coaxial/cable lead. It also mentions about hooking up another lead(VHF) is you are using a VHF coupling block with a VHF antenna. I am only using the 9032 alone and not with an attached VHF antenna so the directions make me believe that if a VHF coupling block is not being used then you would only hook up one lead and not the VHF lead. From looking at my antenna from the ground it appears that there are two leads hooked up instead of one. Could this lead being hooked into a VHF coupling block cause some problems with my antenna.
Again thanks for all your help.