HDTV Forum

Richard,

Could you please help? Yesterday I found myself at the centre of an argument as to whether HDTV can be 4:3.

In response to statement I made on another forum

Bob,

Sorry about that experience.

First off any calculator proves HDTV is 16:9 by the simple fact that 1920X1080 and 1280X720 results in 1.78 (16:9) and is clearly based on square pixels.

Presentation means nothing. It is all about mastering. Regardless of the aspect ratio presented, 1.33, 1.78, 1.85, 2.35 or even 2.6 for Cinerama the content is considered HD if it was mastered in HD. SD upconversions do not count. The Wizard of Oz is 1.33 OAR. Only 1.78 or 1.85 can use either all or most of the pixels that we have to work with. 1.33, 2.35 and 2.6 will not due to the black bars and technically constitutes a loss of resolution. While anamorphic practices such as is used with DVD could be applied there is no practical way to overcome that without making things very complicated and inducing artifacts. Bear in mind there are even more aspect ratios in our content history.

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Is there 4:3 HDTV? None I have seen yet. Charlie Angels and Hogans Heroes could have been but Mark decided instead to cut off some of the top and bottom using a 14:9 ratio instead for HD mastering so the screen would appear filled out for the most part. If you check you will note that there are thin black bars on the sides (may not be visible with the typical 7-9% display overscan). I confronted Mark with this and his response was he did not want to deal with complaining folks who did not understand why their screen was not being filled out. I was looking forward to Hogans Heroes in HD since I grew up on that show. When I was able to finally get HDnet. I was greatly disappointed upon the first show, contacted Mark, he explained and in the end I decided to skip Hogans Heroes; I wanted it OAR and HD damnit!

Don

Richard,

I am still a little confused! If HDTV is indeed 1920x1080 or 1280x720 (16:9) what happens to the left over pixels in a 4:3 presentation? Would the resultant black bars at the side be part of the actual HD picture?

And doesn't this just increase the confusion of the general public that is already confused about DTV and HDTV? Most of the promos for HDTV talk about it being widescreen. We have 16:9 images on PBS that are not always HDTV and we could have some 4:3 images that are HDTV! And we have some sports in HDTV where some widescreen images are actually taken with SD cameras!

And there are some people that think that just because it is on an HDTV channel (via satellite or cable) it must be HDTV whatever the aspect ratio!

It seems to me that the promotion of HDTV by the entire industry has been and continues to be handled poorly. I consider myself a fairly well informed person when it comes to HDTV (I have had HDTV since 2000 and was a subsciber to HDTV magazine) and obviously even I get a little confused at times. What must the average Joe be thinking?

Come to think of it, did not the Wonderful World of Disney present one of there classic animations (I believe Bambi) in OAR and HDTV?

Bob- High def is defined as 1080i or 720p. (Up-conversions to these formats don

I was under the mistake impression that all broadcasters had to adhere to the ATSC format standards. So, if they were broadcasting HDTV they would have to use one of the 6 formats which are all 16:9.

Broadcasters do have to adhere to the ATSC format for DTV and if it is HDTV then they only have 720P, 1080I or 1080P (30 frames) 16:9. That has nothing to do with the source that is being applied to the HDTV format that is being transmitted.

I receive WTBS all day long in 1920X1080 with 4:3 SD content. Does that make WTBS HD?

I watch NBC throughout the day in 1920X1080 with 4:3 SD content. Does that make my Daily NBC HD?

If the content is captured in HD or mastered in HD and transmitted in HD than it is considered HD. Leno is HD. Conan is HD. Letterman is HD. Hogans Heroes is HD. HDnet Movies are HD. Oprah is not. Dr. Phil is not. All are received as a 1920X1080 16:9 HD format by your receiver.

I am still a little confused! If HDTV is indeed 1920x1080 or 1280x720 (16:9) what happens to the left over pixels in a 4:3 presentation? Would the resultant black bars at the side be part of the actual HD picture?

Exactly. Yes, that is a loss of resolution for the 4:3 source just like letterbox DVD is loss of resolution. 16:9 anamorphic DVD or HD with a 2.35 source putting black bars above and below the image is about a 25% loss of resolution but that is far better than that same 2.35 source mastered for 4:3 letterbox creating about a 50% loss in resolution. In HD that same source would be about a 75% loss in resolution leaving you with a small rectangle of an image in the center of your screen.

And doesn't this just increase the confusion of the general public that is already confused about DTV and HDTV? Most of the promos for HDTV talk about it being widescreen. We have 16:9 images on PBS that are not always HDTV and we could have some 4:3 images that are HDTV! And we have some sports in HDTV where some widescreen images are actually taken with SD cameras!

And there are some people that think that just because it is on an HDTV channel (via satellite or cable) it must be HDTV whatever the aspect ratio!

That is why Dale Cripps created the daily guide at ilovehdtv.com about 4 years ago to clearly identify what programming is HD what is not. Some folks would see their screen filled out with horrid images and say,