1080P response to Jack and Hugh

Started by Jul 5, 2005 3 posts
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#1
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jack,

Samsung put out a demonstration of a DLP 720p and 1080p sets side by side at CES for all the public
to view, 1080p was much more refined and clearer than 720p.

Of course, the comparison has to be made with equal image sources and simultaneous timing, be
geometrically equal and still match the native pixel grid of each set, and the sets receive 720p and
1080p externally, so no scaling or conversion is done on either set, and the view is actually the
image and a set reproducing it. Samsung never disclosed what was behind the sets, but I assume it
was done with care, the visual differences were obvious.

I included the photos of the demo on the report.

I also provided recently a link that showed the differences on picture quality and also showing a PC
desktop with a windows application to note how the increased resolution made small fonts readable on
a large RPTV from the distance.

There is a considerable difference, but to been able to use the fullest of the native capabilities
one needs original resolution as high as the set, and one has to sit closer to the screen to realize
the benefit, the primary objective of going 1080p, which is: increase the resolution to open the
wide angle of vision for a better cinematic experience.

If you are going to buy a 1080p set to replace a 720p set for the purpose of viewing it 20 feet away
from the kitchen to the family room, do your self a favor and keep the 720p set. Unless the
Bloomberg quotes are then readable from that distance and your kitchen is your area of operations
for investments, every one has different purposes.

Upconverting 1080i , 480i/p, 720 to 1080p should not give the same quality of a true 1080p signal
viewed on the same set, if it does something is wrong on the setup, including the viewing distance
and your glasses.

Hi Def DVD is "hoped" to bring that quality, that format would provide an opportunity for anyone to
compare "in the same set and at home" that 1080p original resolution does not look the same than
upconverting/interpolating/inventing pixels of any lower resolution signal to map the 1080p set grid
of pixels. From what I have seen, only Faroudja can claim to come close, and I have seen 1080p from
their expensive scaler since it came out before HDTV was introduced in 1998, using very expensive
CRT 9" projectors, very hi-end dream indeed.

Hugh,

CRT RPTV and FPTV are great for the smoothness they convey on the image, and certainly the best
black of all, but CRT had its time and opportunity to mass produce at an affordable price before DLP
and the rest started to challenge it. Unless you are going for a very expensive setup, CRT never
made it considerably better for the mass than the level of quality you have now Hugh, or also some
9" tube RPTVs.

It is a bit late to reintroduce CRT with 1080p capabilities no one did the effort to reach, and now
much less when every one is moving away from it, the expense of being alone on this dream trip would
be prohibitive to construct and afford.

Joe Kane has been doing great efforts for the last two decades to make manufacturers aware of the
unacceptable design/performance of 1080i sets, and 480i as well, not even with his great efforts not
one regular consumer TV was ever released with true 1080ix1920 capabilities, imagine 1080p.

Also the nature of the CRT animal and the interlace system at 1080i was making the dream impossible.
Except for the recent introduction of the slim tubes we have to accept that this it for CRT in HT.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jack
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 2:08 PMc
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: 1080P


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Someone suggested or simply declared that the perceived picture quality of
any of the new 1080P sets would not differ from existing 1080i or 720p sets.
Could this be true? To be more specific, a 2004 DLP Samsung or Mits will
look the same as one of their new 1080P DLP's?

Jack


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#2
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

I knew it would never happen, I was just wishing it would as I really like
the picture provided by a CRT and in 1080p it would, for me, be great. I
remember well the Samsung display of 720p vs 1080p and it was substantial.
Unfortunately my hard drive got erased last week and my pictures of that
comparison are gone.

Hugh



----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodolfo La Maestra" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: 1080P response to Jack and Hugh


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jack,
>
> Samsung put out a demonstration of a DLP 720p and 1080p sets side by side
> at CES for all the public
> to view, 1080p was much more refined and clearer than 720p.
>
> Of course, the comparison has to be made with equal image sources and
> simultaneous timing, be
> geometrically equal and still match the native pixel grid of each set, and
> the sets receive 720p and
> 1080p externally, so no scaling or conversion is done on either set, and
> the view is actually the
> image and a set reproducing it. Samsung never disclosed what was behind
> the sets, but I assume it
> was done with care, the visual differences were obvious.
>
> I included the photos of the demo on the report.
>
> I also provided recently a link that showed the differences on picture
> quality and also showing a PC
> desktop with a windows application to note how the increased resolution
> made small fonts readable on
> a large RPTV from the distance.
>
> There is a considerable difference, but to been able to use the fullest of
> the native capabilities
> one needs original resolution as high as the set, and one has to sit
> closer to the screen to realize
> the benefit, the primary objective of going 1080p, which is: increase the
> resolution to open the
> wide angle of vision for a better cinematic experience.
>
> If you are going to buy a 1080p set to replace a 720p set for the purpose
> of viewing it 20 feet away
> from the kitchen to the family room, do your self a favor and keep the
> 720p set. Unless the
> Bloomberg quotes are then readable from that distance and your kitchen is
> your area of operations
> for investments, every one has different purposes.
>
> Upconverting 1080i , 480i/p, 720 to 1080p should not give the same quality
> of a true 1080p signal
> viewed on the same set, if it does something is wrong on the setup,
> including the viewing distance
> and your glasses.
>
> Hi Def DVD is "hoped" to bring that quality, that format would provide an
> opportunity for anyone to
> compare "in the same set and at home" that 1080p original resolution does
> not look the same than
> upconverting/interpolating/inventing pixels of any lower resolution signal
> to map the 1080p set grid
> of pixels. From what I have seen, only Faroudja can claim to come close,
> and I have seen 1080p from
> their expensive scaler since it came out before HDTV was introduced in
> 1998, using very expensive
> CRT 9" projectors, very hi-end dream indeed.
>
> Hugh,
>
> CRT RPTV and FPTV are great for the smoothness they convey on the image,
> and certainly the best
> black of all, but CRT had its time and opportunity to mass produce at an
> affordable price before DLP
> and the rest started to challenge it. Unless you are going for a very
> expensive setup, CRT never
> made it considerably better for the mass than the level of quality you
> have now Hugh, or also some
> 9" tube RPTVs.
>
> It is a bit late to reintroduce CRT with 1080p capabilities no one did the
> effort to reach, and now
> much less when every one is moving away from it, the expense of being
> alone on this dream trip would
> be prohibitive to construct and afford.
>
> Joe Kane has been doing great efforts for the last two decades to make
> manufacturers aware of the
> unacceptable design/performance of 1080i sets, and 480i as well, not even
> with his great efforts not
> one regular consumer TV was ever released with true 1080ix1920
> capabilities, imagine 1080p.
>
> Also the nature of the CRT animal and the interlace system at 1080i was
> making the dream impossible.
> Except for the recent introduction of the slim tubes we have to accept
> that this it for CRT in HT.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jack
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 2:08 PMc
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: 1080P
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Someone suggested or simply declared that the perceived picture quality of
> any of the new 1080P sets would not differ from existing 1080i or 720p
> sets.
> Could this be true? To be more specific, a 2004 DLP Samsung or Mits will
> look the same as one of their new 1080P DLP's?
>
> Jack
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>



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#3
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> Samsung put out a demonstration of a DLP 720p and 1080p sets side by
side at CES for all the public
> to view, 1080p was much more refined and clearer than 720p.

I have no doubt that it was but that was using their source materials
mastered their way. If you take an original 1920X1080 or greater and
master it for 720P and 1080I or better yet a scan rate a you can't get
like 1080P then the native 1080P would have to look the way you describe
over the 720P.

My comment was not about potential but what we really have out there to
feed it which is still limited to about 1400 vertical lines of
horizontal resolution. Based on all we know only HD-DVD is poised to
deliver the full potential of the system on a consistent basis.

Thanks Rodolfo for pointing out again that all this resolution doesn't
mean anything if you are not going to use the product at 3-4 screen
heights. Based upon the viewing distances I see in the field there would
be little benefit if your current display is doing a decent job.

By all means if your display is a CRT from generations 1-3 or 1998-2001
in general you would gain a major improvement with most of the current
CRT models. With digital display technology a crisper image even at the
longer casual viewing distances. If this is you and you are into
performance then a 1080P display is certainly worth the wait since we
are in the cusp!

Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jack,
>
> Samsung put out a demonstration of a DLP 720p and 1080p sets side by side at CES for all the public
> to view, 1080p was much more refined and clearer than 720p.
>
> Of course, the comparison has to be made with equal image sources and simultaneous timing, be
> geometrically equal and still match the native pixel grid of each set, and the sets receive 720p and
> 1080p externally, so no scaling or conversion is done on either set, and the view is actually the
> image and a set reproducing it. Samsung never disclosed what was behind the sets, but I assume it
> was done with care, the visual differences were obvious.
>
> I included the photos of the demo on the report.
>
> I also provided recently a link that showed the differences on picture quality and also showing a PC
> desktop with a windows application to note how the increased resolution made small fonts readable on
> a large RPTV from the distance.
>
> There is a considerable difference, but to been able to use the fullest of the native capabilities
> one needs original resolution as high as the set, and one has to sit closer to the screen to realize
> the benefit, the primary objective of going 1080p, which is: increase the resolution to open the
> wide angle of vision for a better cinematic experience.
>
> If you are going to buy a 1080p set to replace a 720p set for the purpose of viewing it 20 feet away
> from the kitchen to the family room, do your self a favor and keep the 720p set. Unless the
> Bloomberg quotes are then readable from that distance and your kitchen is your area of operations
> for investments, every one has different purposes.
>
> Upconverting 1080i , 480i/p, 720 to 1080p should not give the same quality of a true 1080p signal
> viewed on the same set, if it does something is wrong on the setup, including the viewing distance
> and your glasses.
>
> Hi Def DVD is "hoped" to bring that quality, that format would provide an opportunity for anyone to
> compare "in the same set and at home" that 1080p original resolution does not look the same than
> upconverting/interpolating/inventing pixels of any lower resolution signal to map the 1080p set grid
> of pixels. From what I have seen, only Faroudja can claim to come close, and I have seen 1080p from
> their expensive scaler since it came out before HDTV was introduced in 1998, using very expensive
> CRT 9" projectors, very hi-end dream indeed.
>
> Hugh,
>
> CRT RPTV and FPTV are great for the smoothness they convey on the image, and certainly the best
> black of all, but CRT had its time and opportunity to mass produce at an affordable price before DLP
> and the rest started to challenge it. Unless you are going for a very expensive setup, CRT never
> made it considerably better for the mass than the level of quality you have now Hugh, or also some
> 9" tube RPTVs.
>
> It is a bit late to reintroduce CRT with 1080p capabilities no one did the effort to reach, and now
> much less when every one is moving away from it, the expense of being alone on this dream trip would
> be prohibitive to construct and afford.
>
> Joe Kane has been doing great efforts for the last two decades to make manufacturers aware of the
> unacceptable design/performance of 1080i sets, and 480i as well, not even with his great efforts not
> one regular consumer TV was ever released with true 1080ix1920 capabilities, imagine 1080p.
>
> Also the nature of the CRT animal and the interlace system at 1080i was making the dream impossible.
> Except for the recent introduction of the slim tubes we have to accept that this it for CRT in HT.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jack
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 2:08 PMc
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: 1080P
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Someone suggested or simply declared that the perceived picture quality of
> any of the new 1080P sets would not differ from existing 1080i or 720p sets.
> Could this be true? To be more specific, a 2004 DLP Samsung or Mits will
> look the same as one of their new 1080P DLP's?
>
> Jack
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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