----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Good Morning Rodolfo,
Do we know when the 2007 CES report will be available?
Also I heard about a Samsung Plasma 58" with 2 HDMI 1.3 inputs. Any comment
on that set?
Supposed to be out next month.
Thanks,
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:34 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: HDMI with Cat-5 - Wired and Wireless
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Regarding the subject of 1080p support from Gefen products, my response
unfortunately mixed the title (wireless) with the CAT5 content of the
emails.
While checking today the digital connectivity material from CES I realized
that the 1080p question I made to Gefen at the show was for the newer
wireless HDMI extender, not for the CAT 5 digital extreme model, a 100%
wired solution.
The CAT5 extreme wired solution indeed supports 1080p/60fps up 150 feet, it
needs dual CAT-5e, but there is some flexibility. If you do not need HDCP
for the particular content distribution only one of the CAT-5 cables is
needed, the second cable is used for DDC (Display Data Channel) information
as well as HDCP, they are working for a single CAT-5 cable solution but no
promises.
On the other hand, the wireless HDMI extender ($699) does not support 1080p,
not yet
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4318
It supports 1080i or 720p up to 60 feet using 'Tzero Technologies' ultra
wideband (UWB) technology at max 480 Mbps. The receiver outputs HDMI 1.2a
to the next in line TV/device.
Part of the mix up occurred because I remembered I discussed with Gefen at
CES the possibility of doing a combination of wired/wireless solution of
HDMI.
In such design only some wired rooms would get 1080p, while the wireless
branches will get 1080i max, at which point there should be a downconversion
where a wireless transmitter takes over. Eventually one could upgrade those
to 1080p, if they ever make it wireless.
I still need to review the voice recording of my meeting with Gefen to make
sure there is nothing else that was an issue. Maybe in a couple of weeks I
will get to those recordings, if I find something different I will certainly
return to this thread.
Now. Reliability.
One thing that I am not easy about is the number of points a system of more
than one run would have patches (Gefen does not guarantee reliability for
more than 1 patch point).
Another thing I am not easy is about the HDMI/CAT-5/HDMI conversions and
compression/decompression processing, and certainly their use of the wording
"visually lossless HD compression". The term "Visually" worries me.
Taking the HDMI signal out of my $500 HDMI wire to such a zoo is not
something I could digest that easily, unless the end goes to a kitchen's 15"
LCD, but if that is the case I would probably not use HDMI at all.
There are a number of issues and situations by which the CAT-5 solution for
HDMI might not work as one hopes, there are claims of snow, sparkles, green,
no image, dip switches not compensating enough, bla bla.
Even a simple patch point where the endings of the CAT-5 pairs might not be
perfectly twisted/untwisted (because of the join and connectors) could
subject the signal to interference and degradation, digital streams are very
sensitive to this.
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:35 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: FW: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
That is not what Gefen said to me in my face at CES 2007 5 weeks ago when
they showed me the new product lines for HDMI, I asked exactly that question
(1080p).
I did not get to make the analysis of their products yet, when I do I will
contact then back and confirm why the discrepancy.
Thanks for bringing this up, one reason more not to trust manufacturers
until all the facts are verified, but what surprises me is that they were
stating limitations (under my questioning) rather than inflating the product
with specs, quite unusual.
Thanks,
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Vining
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:01 PM
To: 'HDTV Magazine'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Wireless HD server
The HDMI CAT-5 Extreme from Gefen will (according to specs) provide 1080P up
to 150' while 1080i can run up to 200'. Uses two CAT 5 or 6 runs between
the two converters.
------------------------------------
Daniel R. Vining
------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:29 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Jordan,
Ahhh.
I am already imagining your message "overwrite" after the super-flash
download of an HD movie on the IPTV DVR; that will be the day.
Besides, Cat 5 by itself has being quoted by the "all with Cat 5" followers
like God, anything goes with Cat 5.
I have a friend that has 6 cats and one was named Cat 5, I am serious.
It is even sold to perform HDMI connectivity, although so far up to 1080i,
not 1080p at any frame rate, not yet but is coming.
Heck, the only thing they did not sell yet for Cat 5 is doing hamburgers on
the receiving room. Although you have to like them rare all the time.
Just kidding, I needed a break from my keyboard.
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jordan Meschkow
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:01 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
All I can say about how fast Cat 6 is, is that we changed out our router
from a 10/100 to a 10/100/1000 (gigabit) and an 8-port gigabit switch and
cabled the house with Cat 6 (I don't know which one) and now, downloads
(copying) from machine to machine, is like copying on one from one directory
to another. A whole folder of 2-4 MB photos copies in less than 10 seconds.
Sometimes the "copying" window is never seen, and when you do it, again, it
says "overwrite?"
While fiber may be fast, no PC network connection that I know of can use it,
and some of our newer PCs needed gigabit network cards ($5-15 each) and
disabling of the 10/100 ones whether on board or not. It was all worth it
so all of us get a 7Mbps cable connection (I do get 1.5 MB download rates
from some sites, 894 Kbps from others) and a faster file transfer or copy
speed.
Jordan Meschkow
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Joseph Azar
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:25 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
But you need to tell them the liabilities of higher category cable. I would
suggest running fiber with any category cable as not only is fiber the next
cabling system, there are hardware systems now that allow home use. All
without the physical and electrical liabilities of copper.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Bowling
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:50 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Both Cat 5 and Cat 5e (enhanced) are specified to 100 MHz. Cat 5e has
tighter specifications for Near End Cross Talk (NEXT) and Far End Cross Talk
(FEXT).
Cat 6 is specified to 250 MHz. Additional parameters include ELNEXT,
ELFEXT, PSELNEXT and PSELFEXT, Delay Skew and Propagation Delay.
Cat 6a was ratified last summer. This cable is specified out to 500 MHz.
As you advance in categories, you get better Signal to Noise (S/N) ratios.
I just re-cabled my house with the new SYSTIMAX SCS 10XD (10 Gigabit)
cabling system.
I was using Cat 6 with the Intelix V3AD HD Component Video Adapters and
Intelix HDMI adapters.
There is definitely improvement using Cat 6a over Cat 5e and Cat 6.
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Aaron W. Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:24 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Does anyone use CAT5 any more? Isn't the minimun Cat5e now?
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Healy" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> How could he accomplish with Cat5? Thanks
>
>
>
> On 2/14/07 9:48 PM, "Sue & Gordy Tyler" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>
>> The techs will test the coax
>> Sometimes they can replace just the connectors and get it to work
>> RG6 is recommended, but RG59 may work if the runs are short.
>> They will run new coax if required.
>> The HD DVR does not have a COAX output
>> You can buy the Multi-Room DVR option, but only SD boxes can be used for
>> clients (stay tuned)
>> This works by using MoCA technology (IP over the COAX)
>>
>> I am assuming that you don't want to or can't run CAT5 to your TV
>> locations
>> since you are asking about wireless options. I wouldn't recommend
>> wireless
>> for this application.
>> You can use baluns with HDMI or component video outputs to send signals a
>> long distance over CAT5 wiring.
>>
>> Anyone with Verizon FiOS questions can talk to me on google talk:
>> gordon.j.tyler
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>> Thomas B Kemp
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:33 PM
>> To: HDTV Magazine
>> Subject: Wireless HD server
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Hopefully within the next month or so I should be able to get Verizon
>> FiOS
>> TV. I have done a bit of research regarding what they have available
>> from a
>> hardware point of view. It appears that they do have a wireless video
>> server available but not for HD. I have four HD sets and do not want to
>> have four STBs as only my wife and I live in the house. Two HD STB's
>> would
>> be preferable with one of them being an HD-DVR which I believe Verizon
>> does
>> offer. Based on what I believe to be correct information, Verizon
>> doesn't
>> fish any walls. I am a bit concerned that when I wired the house with
>> coax
>> almost 35 years ago when it was built I used coax that MIGHT not be the
>> currently required coax to carry the Verizon FiOS video signal. I assume
>> that there are different types of coax with different impedance ratings.
>> Can anyone shed any light on this? Ideally what I would like to do is
>> put
>> an STB with RF remote capability in the attic where the individual room
>> cabling is homed from. I would then distribute the video to the existing
>> coax wiring that goes to three of the four TV locations. Is there a
>> viable
>> splitter that could be used to split/amplify (?) the HD digital signal
>> coming out of the STB? I would also add a second STB with HD-DVR
>> capability
>> at the fourth location. IF my existing coax isn't the correct type then
>> I
>> would like to pursue wireless HD. Can anyone recommend what I could
>> use to connect to the output of the STB and be able to broadcast HD to
>> receivers throughout the house? Could I have two wireless HD
>> transmitters/servers broadcasting on different frequencies to different
>> HD
>> receivers that would then be connected to the HD sets? Does such
>> equipment
>> even exist yet?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>>
>> Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments
>> that take our breath away.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same
>> day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same
>> day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date: 2/14/2007
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date: 2/14/2007
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
Good Morning Rodolfo,
Do we know when the 2007 CES report will be available?
Also I heard about a Samsung Plasma 58" with 2 HDMI 1.3 inputs. Any comment
on that set?
Supposed to be out next month.
Thanks,
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:34 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: HDMI with Cat-5 - Wired and Wireless
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Regarding the subject of 1080p support from Gefen products, my response
unfortunately mixed the title (wireless) with the CAT5 content of the
emails.
While checking today the digital connectivity material from CES I realized
that the 1080p question I made to Gefen at the show was for the newer
wireless HDMI extender, not for the CAT 5 digital extreme model, a 100%
wired solution.
The CAT5 extreme wired solution indeed supports 1080p/60fps up 150 feet, it
needs dual CAT-5e, but there is some flexibility. If you do not need HDCP
for the particular content distribution only one of the CAT-5 cables is
needed, the second cable is used for DDC (Display Data Channel) information
as well as HDCP, they are working for a single CAT-5 cable solution but no
promises.
On the other hand, the wireless HDMI extender ($699) does not support 1080p,
not yet
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4318
It supports 1080i or 720p up to 60 feet using 'Tzero Technologies' ultra
wideband (UWB) technology at max 480 Mbps. The receiver outputs HDMI 1.2a
to the next in line TV/device.
Part of the mix up occurred because I remembered I discussed with Gefen at
CES the possibility of doing a combination of wired/wireless solution of
HDMI.
In such design only some wired rooms would get 1080p, while the wireless
branches will get 1080i max, at which point there should be a downconversion
where a wireless transmitter takes over. Eventually one could upgrade those
to 1080p, if they ever make it wireless.
I still need to review the voice recording of my meeting with Gefen to make
sure there is nothing else that was an issue. Maybe in a couple of weeks I
will get to those recordings, if I find something different I will certainly
return to this thread.
Now. Reliability.
One thing that I am not easy about is the number of points a system of more
than one run would have patches (Gefen does not guarantee reliability for
more than 1 patch point).
Another thing I am not easy is about the HDMI/CAT-5/HDMI conversions and
compression/decompression processing, and certainly their use of the wording
"visually lossless HD compression". The term "Visually" worries me.
Taking the HDMI signal out of my $500 HDMI wire to such a zoo is not
something I could digest that easily, unless the end goes to a kitchen's 15"
LCD, but if that is the case I would probably not use HDMI at all.
There are a number of issues and situations by which the CAT-5 solution for
HDMI might not work as one hopes, there are claims of snow, sparkles, green,
no image, dip switches not compensating enough, bla bla.
Even a simple patch point where the endings of the CAT-5 pairs might not be
perfectly twisted/untwisted (because of the join and connectors) could
subject the signal to interference and degradation, digital streams are very
sensitive to this.
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:35 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: FW: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
That is not what Gefen said to me in my face at CES 2007 5 weeks ago when
they showed me the new product lines for HDMI, I asked exactly that question
(1080p).
I did not get to make the analysis of their products yet, when I do I will
contact then back and confirm why the discrepancy.
Thanks for bringing this up, one reason more not to trust manufacturers
until all the facts are verified, but what surprises me is that they were
stating limitations (under my questioning) rather than inflating the product
with specs, quite unusual.
Thanks,
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Vining
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:01 PM
To: 'HDTV Magazine'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Wireless HD server
The HDMI CAT-5 Extreme from Gefen will (according to specs) provide 1080P up
to 150' while 1080i can run up to 200'. Uses two CAT 5 or 6 runs between
the two converters.
------------------------------------
Daniel R. Vining
------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:29 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Jordan,
Ahhh.
I am already imagining your message "overwrite" after the super-flash
download of an HD movie on the IPTV DVR; that will be the day.
Besides, Cat 5 by itself has being quoted by the "all with Cat 5" followers
like God, anything goes with Cat 5.
I have a friend that has 6 cats and one was named Cat 5, I am serious.
It is even sold to perform HDMI connectivity, although so far up to 1080i,
not 1080p at any frame rate, not yet but is coming.
Heck, the only thing they did not sell yet for Cat 5 is doing hamburgers on
the receiving room. Although you have to like them rare all the time.
Just kidding, I needed a break from my keyboard.
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jordan Meschkow
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:01 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
All I can say about how fast Cat 6 is, is that we changed out our router
from a 10/100 to a 10/100/1000 (gigabit) and an 8-port gigabit switch and
cabled the house with Cat 6 (I don't know which one) and now, downloads
(copying) from machine to machine, is like copying on one from one directory
to another. A whole folder of 2-4 MB photos copies in less than 10 seconds.
Sometimes the "copying" window is never seen, and when you do it, again, it
says "overwrite?"
While fiber may be fast, no PC network connection that I know of can use it,
and some of our newer PCs needed gigabit network cards ($5-15 each) and
disabling of the 10/100 ones whether on board or not. It was all worth it
so all of us get a 7Mbps cable connection (I do get 1.5 MB download rates
from some sites, 894 Kbps from others) and a faster file transfer or copy
speed.
Jordan Meschkow
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Joseph Azar
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:25 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
But you need to tell them the liabilities of higher category cable. I would
suggest running fiber with any category cable as not only is fiber the next
cabling system, there are hardware systems now that allow home use. All
without the physical and electrical liabilities of copper.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Bowling
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:50 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Both Cat 5 and Cat 5e (enhanced) are specified to 100 MHz. Cat 5e has
tighter specifications for Near End Cross Talk (NEXT) and Far End Cross Talk
(FEXT).
Cat 6 is specified to 250 MHz. Additional parameters include ELNEXT,
ELFEXT, PSELNEXT and PSELFEXT, Delay Skew and Propagation Delay.
Cat 6a was ratified last summer. This cable is specified out to 500 MHz.
As you advance in categories, you get better Signal to Noise (S/N) ratios.
I just re-cabled my house with the new SYSTIMAX SCS 10XD (10 Gigabit)
cabling system.
I was using Cat 6 with the Intelix V3AD HD Component Video Adapters and
Intelix HDMI adapters.
There is definitely improvement using Cat 6a over Cat 5e and Cat 6.
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Aaron W. Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:24 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Does anyone use CAT5 any more? Isn't the minimun Cat5e now?
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Healy" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Wireless HD server
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> How could he accomplish with Cat5? Thanks
>
>
>
> On 2/14/07 9:48 PM, "Sue & Gordy Tyler" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>
>> The techs will test the coax
>> Sometimes they can replace just the connectors and get it to work
>> RG6 is recommended, but RG59 may work if the runs are short.
>> They will run new coax if required.
>> The HD DVR does not have a COAX output
>> You can buy the Multi-Room DVR option, but only SD boxes can be used for
>> clients (stay tuned)
>> This works by using MoCA technology (IP over the COAX)
>>
>> I am assuming that you don't want to or can't run CAT5 to your TV
>> locations
>> since you are asking about wireless options. I wouldn't recommend
>> wireless
>> for this application.
>> You can use baluns with HDMI or component video outputs to send signals a
>> long distance over CAT5 wiring.
>>
>> Anyone with Verizon FiOS questions can talk to me on google talk:
>> gordon.j.tyler
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>> Thomas B Kemp
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:33 PM
>> To: HDTV Magazine
>> Subject: Wireless HD server
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Hopefully within the next month or so I should be able to get Verizon
>> FiOS
>> TV. I have done a bit of research regarding what they have available
>> from a
>> hardware point of view. It appears that they do have a wireless video
>> server available but not for HD. I have four HD sets and do not want to
>> have four STBs as only my wife and I live in the house. Two HD STB's
>> would
>> be preferable with one of them being an HD-DVR which I believe Verizon
>> does
>> offer. Based on what I believe to be correct information, Verizon
>> doesn't
>> fish any walls. I am a bit concerned that when I wired the house with
>> coax
>> almost 35 years ago when it was built I used coax that MIGHT not be the
>> currently required coax to carry the Verizon FiOS video signal. I assume
>> that there are different types of coax with different impedance ratings.
>> Can anyone shed any light on this? Ideally what I would like to do is
>> put
>> an STB with RF remote capability in the attic where the individual room
>> cabling is homed from. I would then distribute the video to the existing
>> coax wiring that goes to three of the four TV locations. Is there a
>> viable
>> splitter that could be used to split/amplify (?) the HD digital signal
>> coming out of the STB? I would also add a second STB with HD-DVR
>> capability
>> at the fourth location. IF my existing coax isn't the correct type then
>> I
>> would like to pursue wireless HD. Can anyone recommend what I could
>> use to connect to the output of the STB and be able to broadcast HD to
>> receivers throughout the house? Could I have two wireless HD
>> transmitters/servers broadcasting on different frequencies to different
>> HD
>> receivers that would then be connected to the HD sets? Does such
>> equipment
>> even exist yet?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>>
>> Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments
>> that take our breath away.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same
>> day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same
>> day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date: 2/14/2007
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date: 2/14/2007
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]