ATI buys Theta Digital!

Started by magoo Nov 19, 2007 7 posts
Read-only archive
#2
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Ohh Larry,

You are pulling my tongue with this much expected and much needed company
decision.

After spending over $25K on a pre / amp pair I am absolutely happy with the
clean quality of Theta sound, which is the best I ever heard (for the money)
since I started with hi-end separates and tube sound in the early 60s.

However, I made such large investment under the "this is the last piece I
would ever buy before I am gone, due to its modularity and upgradability
design", the Casablanca is made with top quality replaceable video/audio
cards, as a computer. It even boots as a computer (and sometimes freezes as
a laptop with static discharges).

That part of the deal did not happen as I was hoping, especially with
digital connectivity, first with 1394, now with HDMI, Theta has missed the
boat twice over the past 5 years.

When they asked me to be a dealer at one of their dealer training classes I
attended at CES many years ago I told them they should start getting into
1394 at the time when Denon and Pioneer Elite introduced their own
proprietary 1394 digital multi-channel solutions, to avoid the idiotic 6-8
analog cables for multi-SACD and DVD-Audio.

Their statement was, "it is not yet approved in the market", so they will
wait, and wait, and wait. The same with HDMI. Big mistake.

They introduced a 6-shooter add-on external piece just for just that
connection. Over $3K for that piece at that time, just for the connection.
For that money people were buying a full top of the line receiver from any
of the great companies like Denon and the rest.

As we know, there is the law of diminished returns on products of this kind,
the sound quality of a Theta pair at $25K is exceptional but is NOT 5 times
the clarity of a Denon top of the line $5K receiver, is it twice for John?,
half better for Peter?, it becomes a personal choice. When you reach that
level of audio sophistication money becomes no object, and they are playing
with that, such as those $20K vinyl turntables (like the one Lara Croft had
on her Tomb Raider movie, if you were able to take your eyes out of Lara).

At this CES 2007, Shane wanted to come with me when we saw Theta at the
floor, I warned him that it will become ugly, poor Shane had to listen to my
technical fight and the complaints I dumped to Theta, which never admitted
anything. I hope the hi-level idiot that was representing the company at
the booth was one of the acquisition casualties.

No matter what, I am still behind the top sound quality of this product, and
I still recommend it for that reason to any serious audio listener, I only
wish their execution of the upgradeability plan would have matched their
vision, because any card replacement or upgrade you would want to do with
the Casablanca preamp line will cost you and arm and a leg.

For years my proposal to them, and my theory, was that, if I already spent
$17K on a preamp when I purchased it, I certainly paid my right to the
floor, so I expect that for the future upgrades Theta would give me a break
and take that large investment into consideration, rather than charging
thousands of dollars for each newer audio card, imagine that on a 7.1 system
at $2-3K a pop.

I have 16 speakers in my HT and I certainly would not appreciate replacing
all the cards the system is capable of driving for the purpose of upgrading
individual DAC/crossovers/etc/ at such prices, or to make those cards
capable to handle HDMI 1.3 (just for sound, I ran all HD video thru a Gennum
scaler). For that money I rather change the Porsche. Theta is certainly
not getting a cent from me due to their lack of execution of their great
vision.

I am not sure what ATI would be able to do with the Theta product line, but
I hope they do not sacrifice the quality because it is the only thing they
have done right and they are famous for, we have to see to believe.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra
HDTV Technology Consulting
Senior Technical Director

www.hdtvmagazine.com

(571) 333-2575 phone/fax
(703) 864-6336 Mobile
(313) 625-6336 Mobile fax

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:52 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: ATI buys Theta Digital!

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

http://www.stereophile.com/news/111907theta/




To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
#3
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,


I thought this announcement might get your attention due to the fact you own
their stuff.

However as you have illustrated they do not keep up with connectivity
issues. They sure let legions of their dedicated fans down!!!

They used to be located in So Cal right down the street from one of their
formerly dedicated Audio Salons called Evolution Audio.

The only reason I'm going to upgrade my controller (might even be the Denon
4808 because it has all I will ever need with different formats) to get HDMI
1.3 and to use it for HDMI distribution amp so that when I get my JVC DILA
front projector (that also does 1080P/24) I would only need to run one
signal cable to it.

Then once Pioneer makes their Blu -Ray player 1.3 capable I should be set.


It sounds like you completed your latest Theater Room. It sure would be
great for you to tell every one what you assembled and how it performs.

I know you went with Front projection as well....I think Optoma if my feeble
mind is correct.

The HDTV gang sure has been quite lately....I guess not much too discuss
lately.

Great to hear from you....Have a great Thanksgiving!

Larry




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 1:58 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: ATI buys Theta Digital!

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Ohh Larry,

You are pulling my tongue with this much expected and much needed company
decision.

After spending over $25K on a pre / amp pair I am absolutely happy with the
clean quality of Theta sound, which is the best I ever heard (for the money)
since I started with hi-end separates and tube sound in the early 60s.

However, I made such large investment under the "this is the last piece I
would ever buy before I am gone, due to its modularity and upgradability
design", the Casablanca is made with top quality replaceable video/audio
cards, as a computer. It even boots as a computer (and sometimes freezes as
a laptop with static discharges).

That part of the deal did not happen as I was hoping, especially with
digital connectivity, first with 1394, now with HDMI, Theta has missed the
boat twice over the past 5 years.

When they asked me to be a dealer at one of their dealer training classes I
attended at CES many years ago I told them they should start getting into
1394 at the time when Denon and Pioneer Elite introduced their own
proprietary 1394 digital multi-channel solutions, to avoid the idiotic 6-8
analog cables for multi-SACD and DVD-Audio.

Their statement was, "it is not yet approved in the market", so they will
wait, and wait, and wait. The same with HDMI. Big mistake.

They introduced a 6-shooter add-on external piece just for just that
connection. Over $3K for that piece at that time, just for the connection.
For that money people were buying a full top of the line receiver from any
of the great companies like Denon and the rest.

As we know, there is the law of diminished returns on products of this kind,
the sound quality of a Theta pair at $25K is exceptional but is NOT 5 times
the clarity of a Denon top of the line $5K receiver, is it twice for John?,
half better for Peter?, it becomes a personal choice. When you reach that
level of audio sophistication money becomes no object, and they are playing
with that, such as those $20K vinyl turntables (like the one Lara Croft had
on her Tomb Raider movie, if you were able to take your eyes out of Lara).

At this CES 2007, Shane wanted to come with me when we saw Theta at the
floor, I warned him that it will become ugly, poor Shane had to listen to my
technical fight and the complaints I dumped to Theta, which never admitted
anything. I hope the hi-level idiot that was representing the company at
the booth was one of the acquisition casualties.

No matter what, I am still behind the top sound quality of this product, and
I still recommend it for that reason to any serious audio listener, I only
wish their execution of the upgradeability plan would have matched their
vision, because any card replacement or upgrade you would want to do with
the Casablanca preamp line will cost you and arm and a leg.

For years my proposal to them, and my theory, was that, if I already spent
$17K on a preamp when I purchased it, I certainly paid my right to the
floor, so I expect that for the future upgrades Theta would give me a break
and take that large investment into consideration, rather than charging
thousands of dollars for each newer audio card, imagine that on a 7.1 system
at $2-3K a pop.

I have 16 speakers in my HT and I certainly would not appreciate replacing
all the cards the system is capable of driving for the purpose of upgrading
individual DAC/crossovers/etc/ at such prices, or to make those cards
capable to handle HDMI 1.3 (just for sound, I ran all HD video thru a Gennum
scaler). For that money I rather change the Porsche. Theta is certainly
not getting a cent from me due to their lack of execution of their great
vision.

I am not sure what ATI would be able to do with the Theta product line, but
I hope they do not sacrifice the quality because it is the only thing they
have done right and they are famous for, we have to see to believe.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra
HDTV Technology Consulting
Senior Technical Director

www.hdtvmagazine.com

(571) 333-2575 phone/fax
(703) 864-6336 Mobile
(313) 625-6336 Mobile fax

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:52 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: ATI buys Theta Digital!

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

http://www.stereophile.com/news/111907theta/




To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
#4
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

The JVC RS2 is probably you best bet for the money, they even have now the
Panamorph lens if you get into CinemaScope 2.35:1. DVDO manufactures their
external scaler, The demos I have seen were very good, but as with
everything in this industry we have to have actual market experiences and
owner satisfaction to be totally sure.

Sony new pjs are very good as well, especially the $15K unit.

In my case, I will not be trying the JVC for at least a few more months
because I just upgraded my 1080p Optoma 81 pj after 10 months, I got the
large venue version of it now. With 2500 lumens the 135" CinemaScope 2.35:1
screen is so bright and crisp that I was concerned with light induced
fatigue, but I am still alive.

Regarding audio, although I have high regards for Denon, I have reservations
when using the pre section of any receiver in front of an entire audio
system that was designed and tuned for quality sound, but I understand why
you are doing it, sometimes the technology motivation is stronger than the
actual audio benefit.

However, I would not overestimate the benefits of HDMI 1.3 if they are the
reason for that decision, HDMI/HDCP has their own can of worms as well, and
I say that with honesty after working with them and writing about it. My
position is simple, give me no blue screens, no hand-shake problems, full
compatibility 100% of the time, and will welcome it. Nothing is perfect.

The entire 1.3 loop would not be completed until we have content that is
using the full video potential of it, and until is demonstrated that a
hi-bit audio decoder in the receiver is better quality sound than decoding
in the player and sending it PCM.

In theory, it should be, but chips are chips depending on who makes them for
whom, and the equipment they are installed on. I would not trust the claims
of Dolby, DTS, or anyone out there, use your ears and eyes before you sign
that check.

If you are into Xvcolor Sony camcorders that use 1.3 that is a different
story, but for now, 1.3 connectivity is still an Autobahn potential for
medium-performance cars (source content higher than 8 bit, and displays
that actually have Deep color and Xvcolor capabilities).

Regarding you question about my HT, it never settles down, so what I tell
you today is already obsolete.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 5:37 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: ATI buys Theta Digital!

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,


I thought this announcement might get your attention due to the fact you own
their stuff.

However as you have illustrated they do not keep up with connectivity
issues. They sure let legions of their dedicated fans down!!!

They used to be located in So Cal right down the street from one of their
formerly dedicated Audio Salons called Evolution Audio.

The only reason I'm going to upgrade my controller (might even be the Denon
4808 because it has all I will ever need with different formats) to get HDMI
1.3 and to use it for HDMI distribution amp so that when I get my JVC DILA
front projector (that also does 1080P/24) I would only need to run one
signal cable to it.

Then once Pioneer makes their Blu -Ray player 1.3 capable I should be set.


It sounds like you completed your latest Theater Room. It sure would be
great for you to tell every one what you assembled and how it performs.

I know you went with Front projection as well....I think Optoma if my feeble
mind is correct.

The HDTV gang sure has been quite lately....I guess not much too discuss
lately.

Great to hear from you....Have a great Thanksgiving!

Larry




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 1:58 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: ATI buys Theta Digital!

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Ohh Larry,

You are pulling my tongue with this much expected and much needed company
decision.

After spending over $25K on a pre / amp pair I am absolutely happy with the
clean quality of Theta sound, which is the best I ever heard (for the money)
since I started with hi-end separates and tube sound in the early 60s.

However, I made such large investment under the "this is the last piece I
would ever buy before I am gone, due to its modularity and upgradability
design", the Casablanca is made with top quality replaceable video/audio
cards, as a computer. It even boots as a computer (and sometimes freezes as
a laptop with static discharges).

That part of the deal did not happen as I was hoping, especially with
digital connectivity, first with 1394, now with HDMI, Theta has missed the
boat twice over the past 5 years.

When they asked me to be a dealer at one of their dealer training classes I
attended at CES many years ago I told them they should start getting into
1394 at the time when Denon and Pioneer Elite introduced their own
proprietary 1394 digital multi-channel solutions, to avoid the idiotic 6-8
analog cables for multi-SACD and DVD-Audio.

Their statement was, "it is not yet approved in the market", so they will
wait, and wait, and wait. The same with HDMI. Big mistake.

They introduced a 6-shooter add-on external piece just for just that
connection. Over $3K for that piece at that time, just for the connection.
For that money people were buying a full top of the line receiver from any
of the great companies like Denon and the rest.

As we know, there is the law of diminished returns on products of this kind,
the sound quality of a Theta pair at $25K is exceptional but is NOT 5 times
the clarity of a Denon top of the line $5K receiver, is it twice for John?,
half better for Peter?, it becomes a personal choice. When you reach that
level of audio sophistication money becomes no object, and they are playing
with that, such as those $20K vinyl turntables (like the one Lara Croft had
on her Tomb Raider movie, if you were able to take your eyes out of Lara).

At this CES 2007, Shane wanted to come with me when we saw Theta at the
floor, I warned him that it will become ugly, poor Shane had to listen to my
technical fight and the complaints I dumped to Theta, which never admitted
anything. I hope the hi-level idiot that was representing the company at
the booth was one of the acquisition casualties.

No matter what, I am still behind the top sound quality of this product, and
I still recommend it for that reason to any serious audio listener, I only
wish their execution of the upgradeability plan would have matched their
vision, because any card replacement or upgrade you would want to do with
the Casablanca preamp line will cost you and arm and a leg.

For years my proposal to them, and my theory, was that, if I already spent
$17K on a preamp when I purchased it, I certainly paid my right to the
floor, so I expect that for the future upgrades Theta would give me a break
and take that large investment into consideration, rather than charging
thousands of dollars for each newer audio card, imagine that on a 7.1 system
at $2-3K a pop.

I have 16 speakers in my HT and I certainly would not appreciate replacing
all the cards the system is capable of driving for the purpose of upgrading
individual DAC/crossovers/etc/ at such prices, or to make those cards
capable to handle HDMI 1.3 (just for sound, I ran all HD video thru a Gennum
scaler). For that money I rather change the Porsche. Theta is certainly
not getting a cent from me due to their lack of execution of their great
vision.

I am not sure what ATI would be able to do with the Theta product line, but
I hope they do not sacrifice the quality because it is the only thing they
have done right and they are famous for, we have to see to believe.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra
HDTV Technology Consulting
Senior Technical Director

www.hdtvmagazine.com

(571) 333-2575 phone/fax
(703) 864-6336 Mobile
(313) 625-6336 Mobile fax

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:52 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: ATI buys Theta Digital!

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

http://www.stereophile.com/news/111907theta/




To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
#5
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

At 04:57 PM 11/19/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>However, I made such large investment under the "this is the last piece I
>would ever buy before I am gone, due to its modularity and upgradability
>design"....

Rodolfo -

Welcome to the (no so exclusive) club whose members are people who
have been left high and dry by certain companies. While I didn't
spend as much money as you did with my Lexicon MC-8 pre/pro I feel
that Lexicon (or Harman or whomever's running the show right now) has
severely dropped the ball with HDMI. The same type of discussion
that you have with Theta at CES I have with Lexicon at CEDIA. To
wit, "When are you going to provide an upgrade path to modern
connectivity for loyal customers?" They wanted to sell me a $14,000
pre/pro (with two HDMI 1.1 inputs no less!) and "allow" be to trade
in my $6000 MC-8 for a $3,000 credit. No thanks, Lexicon. I went
with a Denon 3806 last year as a stopgap HDMI solution and have
recently upgraded to a 3808 (4 HDMI 1.3a inputs and a lot of other
very nice performance features.) I use a DVDO VP50 so I don't really
need video processing from my pre/pro. With the rapid advances in
technology and the more favorable price:performance ratio my days of
"boutique" equipment has come to a close. I just can't justify it
and most of the time it's not even state of the art. There's a lot
of fine equipment out there without the "fancy" name.

In a (somewhat) related matter, I recently learned that my speaker
maker of choice, M&K, has closed down. Their story would probably
make a good Hollywood script as they were done in by Chinese import
fakes. At least with speakers, if they are treated right they
probably will last for a very long time (I've had mine for almost 9
years) so I'm not worrying about factory support.

Yes, purchasing products for the long haul is mostly a thing of the
past and our experiences show some of the reasons why.

I feel your pain.


-- RAF


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
#6
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Robert,

Thanks for the update on M&K. I had not heard of their demise, but it is a
loss to the audio community. Ken K. is a great guy and a true music lover.

Mark


On 11/19/07 7:47 PM, "Dr Robert A Fowkes" <[email protected]> wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> At 04:57 PM 11/19/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>> However, I made such large investment under the "this is the last piece I
>> would ever buy before I am gone, due to its modularity and upgradability
>> design"....
>
> Rodolfo -
>
> Welcome to the (no so exclusive) club whose members are people who
> have been left high and dry by certain companies. While I didn't
> spend as much money as you did with my Lexicon MC-8 pre/pro I feel
> that Lexicon (or Harman or whomever's running the show right now) has
> severely dropped the ball with HDMI. The same type of discussion
> that you have with Theta at CES I have with Lexicon at CEDIA. To
> wit, "When are you going to provide an upgrade path to modern
> connectivity for loyal customers?" They wanted to sell me a $14,000
> pre/pro (with two HDMI 1.1 inputs no less!) and "allow" be to trade
> in my $6000 MC-8 for a $3,000 credit. No thanks, Lexicon. I went
> with a Denon 3806 last year as a stopgap HDMI solution and have
> recently upgraded to a 3808 (4 HDMI 1.3a inputs and a lot of other
> very nice performance features.) I use a DVDO VP50 so I don't really
> need video processing from my pre/pro. With the rapid advances in
> technology and the more favorable price:performance ratio my days of
> "boutique" equipment has come to a close. I just can't justify it
> and most of the time it's not even state of the art. There's a lot
> of fine equipment out there without the "fancy" name.
>
> In a (somewhat) related matter, I recently learned that my speaker
> maker of choice, M&K, has closed down. Their story would probably
> make a good Hollywood script as they were done in by Chinese import
> fakes. At least with speakers, if they are treated right they
> probably will last for a very long time (I've had mine for almost 9
> years) so I'm not worrying about factory support.
>
> Yes, purchasing products for the long haul is mostly a thing of the
> past and our experiences show some of the reasons why.
>
> I feel your pain.
>
>
> -- RAF
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
#7
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Robert,


I was wondering whether this topic would get you to the keyboard.


What really is a shame is that one glance through Stereophile or TAS would
show that there is no shortage of High End companies shilling electronics,
Speakers and $25,000 Turntables.

You would think that they would support their current customers.

Theta, as well as others always claimed they were at "the cutting edge" of
technology.

They only have themselves to blame when they find themselves on the short
end of the customer stick!

Three cheers for the Mass Market companies that retain their loyal customers
with value AND technology!


Larry




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Dr Robert A Fowkes
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:48 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: ATI buys Theta Digital!

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

At 04:57 PM 11/19/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>However, I made such large investment under the "this is the last piece I
>would ever buy before I am gone, due to its modularity and upgradability
>design"....

Rodolfo -

Welcome to the (no so exclusive) club whose members are people who
have been left high and dry by certain companies. While I didn't
spend as much money as you did with my Lexicon MC-8 pre/pro I feel
that Lexicon (or Harman or whomever's running the show right now) has
severely dropped the ball with HDMI. The same type of discussion
that you have with Theta at CES I have with Lexicon at CEDIA. To
wit, "When are you going to provide an upgrade path to modern
connectivity for loyal customers?" They wanted to sell me a $14,000
pre/pro (with two HDMI 1.1 inputs no less!) and "allow" be to trade
in my $6000 MC-8 for a $3,000 credit. No thanks, Lexicon. I went
with a Denon 3806 last year as a stopgap HDMI solution and have
recently upgraded to a 3808 (4 HDMI 1.3a inputs and a lot of other
very nice performance features.) I use a DVDO VP50 so I don't really
need video processing from my pre/pro. With the rapid advances in
technology and the more favorable price:performance ratio my days of
"boutique" equipment has come to a close. I just can't justify it
and most of the time it's not even state of the art. There's a lot
of fine equipment out there without the "fancy" name.

In a (somewhat) related matter, I recently learned that my speaker
maker of choice, M&K, has closed down. Their story would probably
make a good Hollywood script as they were done in by Chinese import
fakes. At least with speakers, if they are treated right they
probably will last for a very long time (I've had mine for almost 9
years) so I'm not worrying about factory support.

Yes, purchasing products for the long haul is mostly a thing of the
past and our experiences show some of the reasons why.

I feel your pain.


-- RAF


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]