Coax cable used for High Def???

Started by Hugh Dec 11, 2005 18 posts
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#1
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman told
me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable rather
than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I managed to
get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going to the
television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high
definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?

Hugh


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#2
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Integrated HD Tuner?

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:12 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Coax cable used for High Def???

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman told
me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable rather
than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I managed to
get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going to the
television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high
definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?

Hugh


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day) send an email to:
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#3
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The only way that is possible is if the STB had an ATSC RF generator.
Highly unlikely...

What model was the Dish STB?

Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation

Hugh Campbell wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman
> told me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable
> rather than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I
> managed to get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going
> to the television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture
> was high definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this
> possible?
>
> Hugh
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>


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#4
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I was gonna say, if it's integrated it could be coax to the set. My Sammy
56" is this way with the cable card installed and the picture is stellar.

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Todd Tracey
> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:31 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Integrated HD Tuner?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Hugh Campbell
> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:12 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Coax cable used for High Def???
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman
> told
> me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable rather
> than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I managed to
> get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going to the
> television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high
> definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?
>
> Hugh
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


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#5
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

No, they were using Dish and it was being shown on every television. So
unless a JVC can have an integrated Dish tuner it was not an integrated
tuner. The picture was excellent and I can't figure out how they did it.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Mankin" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I was gonna say, if it's integrated it could be coax to the set. My Sammy
> 56" is this way with the cable card installed and the picture is stellar.
>
> Bob
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>> Todd Tracey
>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:31 AM
>> To: HDTV Magazine
>> Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Integrated HD Tuner?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>> Hugh Campbell
>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:12 PM
>> To: HDTV Magazine
>> Subject: Coax cable used for High Def???
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman
>> told
>> me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable rather
>> than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I managed
>> to
>> get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going to the
>> television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high
>> definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same
>> day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
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>> same
>> day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
>
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#6
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Perhaps they have installed an ATSC modulator. I know that Sencore
makes some, I suppose others do to. Years ago, many big box dealers had
a Sencore HD video server installed to deliver HD signals (via component
back then) to sets on display. I'm sure that there are other ATSC
modulators available also.

Hugh Campbell wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> No, they were using Dish and it was being shown on every television.
> So unless a JVC can have an integrated Dish tuner it was not an
> integrated tuner. The picture was excellent and I can't figure out
> how they did it.
>
> Hugh
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Mankin" <[email protected]>
> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
>
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> I was gonna say, if it's integrated it could be coax to the set. My
>> Sammy
>> 56" is this way with the cable card installed and the picture is
>> stellar.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: HDTV Magazine On
>>> Behalf Of
>>> Todd Tracey
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:31 AM
>>> To: HDTV Magazine
>>> Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
>>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> Integrated HD Tuner?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: HDTV Magazine On
>>> Behalf Of
>>> Hugh Campbell
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:12 PM
>>> To: HDTV Magazine
>>> Subject: Coax cable used for High Def???
>>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman
>>> told
>>> me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable
>>> rather
>>> than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I
>>> managed to
>>> get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going to the
>>> television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high
>>> definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that same
>>> day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that same
>>> day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
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>> same day) send an email to:
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>>
>
>
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> same day) send an email to:
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#7
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The Dish 5000 HDTV receiver had an R/F channel 3 modulated HDTV
output, but I didn't think it was capable of receiving any of their
current offerings (they swapped them out a few years back). But,
maybe they can still receive a few HD channels and that is what the
store still has. Other than that, it would have to be some external
modulator.

On Dec 11, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Hugh Campbell wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the
> salesman told me the picture would be much better but they were
> using coax cable rather than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal
> source was Dish and I managed to get behind the set and sure enough
> the only connection going to the television was coax cable....plus
> the power cord. The picture was high definition to my eyes.
> Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?
>
> Hugh
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]

--

Steve Martin
Personal: [email protected]
Business: [email protected]
Smart Calibration, LLC
http://www.smartcalibration.com/




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#8
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> No, they were using Dish and it was being shown on every television.

oh... that is a bit different...

Sencore ATSC generator? Certainly makes things easier for the retailer.
One huge advantage no one has mentioned as of yet with mandatory
integrated DTV tuners... All that infrastructure has been sitting there
unused for the most part for the last 2-4 years. I suppose some may have
ripped it out!?!?

:)

Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation

Hugh Campbell wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> No, they were using Dish and it was being shown on every television. So
> unless a JVC can have an integrated Dish tuner it was not an integrated
> tuner. The picture was excellent and I can't figure out how they did it.
>
> Hugh
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Mankin" <[email protected]>
> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
>
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> I was gonna say, if it's integrated it could be coax to the set. My Sammy
>> 56" is this way with the cable card installed and the picture is stellar.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: HDTV Magazine On
>>> Behalf Of
>>> Todd Tracey
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:31 AM
>>> To: HDTV Magazine
>>> Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
>>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> Integrated HD Tuner?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: HDTV Magazine On
>>> Behalf Of
>>> Hugh Campbell
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:12 PM
>>> To: HDTV Magazine
>>> Subject: Coax cable used for High Def???
>>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman
>>> told
>>> me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable
>>> rather
>>> than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I
>>> managed to
>>> get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going to the
>>> television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high
>>> definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>>> same
>>> day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>>> same
>>> day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
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>> same day) send an email to:
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>>
>
>
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>
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> same day) send an email to:
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>
>
>
>


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#9
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> The Dish 5000 HDTV receiver had an R/F channel 3 modulated HDTV output

But that was not ATSC; converted to SD right?

Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation

Steve Martin wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> The Dish 5000 HDTV receiver had an R/F channel 3 modulated HDTV output,
> but I didn't think it was capable of receiving any of their current
> offerings (they swapped them out a few years back). But, maybe they
> can still receive a few HD channels and that is what the store still
> has. Other than that, it would have to be some external modulator.
>
> On Dec 11, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Hugh Campbell wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the
>> salesman told me the picture would be much better but they were using
>> coax cable rather than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source
>> was Dish and I managed to get behind the set and sure enough the only
>> connection going to the television was coax cable....plus the power
>> cord. The picture was high definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner
>> (Dish) so how is this possible?
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
>
> --
>
> Steve Martin
> Personal: [email protected]
> Business: [email protected]
> Smart Calibration, LLC
> http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>


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#10
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

No, it was ATSC. You needed an OTA STB to "recieve"/view it.

On Dec 11, 2005, at 7:28 PM, Richard wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> > The Dish 5000 HDTV receiver had an R/F channel 3 modulated HDTV
> output
>
> But that was not ATSC; converted to SD right?
>
> Richard Fisher
> www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>
> Steve Martin wrote:
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>> The Dish 5000 HDTV receiver had an R/F channel 3 modulated HDTV
>> output, but I didn't think it was capable of receiving any of
>> their current offerings (they swapped them out a few years
>> back). But, maybe they can still receive a few HD channels and
>> that is what the store still has. Other than that, it would have
>> to be some external modulator.
>> On Dec 11, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Hugh Campbell wrote:
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the
>>> salesman told me the picture would be much better but they were
>>> using coax cable rather than component, DVI or HDMI. The
>>> signal source was Dish and I managed to get behind the set and
>>> sure enough the only connection going to the television was coax
>>> cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high definition
>>> to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that same day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>> --
>> Steve Martin
>> Personal: [email protected]
>> Business: [email protected]
>> Smart Calibration, LLC
>> http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>> that same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]

--

Steve Martin
Personal: [email protected]
Business: [email protected]
Smart Calibration, LLC
http://www.smartcalibration.com/




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#11
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Thanks guys. I don't have a clue as to what they were using, all they said
was it was a feed from Dish.

Hugh



----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Martin" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> No, it was ATSC. You needed an OTA STB to "recieve"/view it.
>
> On Dec 11, 2005, at 7:28 PM, Richard wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> > The Dish 5000 HDTV receiver had an R/F channel 3 modulated HDTV
>> output
>>
>> But that was not ATSC; converted to SD right?
>>
>> Richard Fisher
>> www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
>> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>>
>> Steve Martin wrote:
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>> The Dish 5000 HDTV receiver had an R/F channel 3 modulated HDTV
>>> output, but I didn't think it was capable of receiving any of their
>>> current offerings (they swapped them out a few years back). But,
>>> maybe they can still receive a few HD channels and that is what the
>>> store still has. Other than that, it would have to be some external
>>> modulator.
>>> On Dec 11, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Hugh Campbell wrote:
>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the
>>>> salesman told me the picture would be much better but they were using
>>>> coax cable rather than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source
>>>> was Dish and I managed to get behind the set and sure enough the only
>>>> connection going to the television was coax cable....plus the power
>>>> cord. The picture was high definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner
>>>> (Dish) so how is this possible?
>>>>
>>>> Hugh
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>>>> same day) send an email to:
>>>> [email protected]
>>> --
>>> Steve Martin
>>> Personal: [email protected]
>>> Business: [email protected]
>>> Smart Calibration, LLC
>>> http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>>> same day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
> --
>
> Steve Martin
> Personal: [email protected]
> Business: [email protected]
> Smart Calibration, LLC
> http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
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>


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#12
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

A little bit of history and analysis would help.

Back in the days when all this started, the Sencore HDD approach was used (late 1998/ thru 1999) in
some stores like Mitsubishi, at that time it was the only way to been able to demo HD at the control
of the retailer, there was no 24 hr HDNet yet, and PBS was probably the only way to view some HD
material if lucky enough to hit the store at the right time, or by invitation, as it was the case in
the DC area with Myer Emco (late evening meetings to show "the" HD program), some Tipsters might
remember those days. Later the typical 24hr loops of E* and DirecTV helped a bit the showroom that
cared to install the necessary equipment, unfortunately most did not and hoped to sell a $8K-$10K
RPTV with a DVD thru S-video (Myer-Emco included, by the same Myer doing the demo a group of 30
people promoting HD).

The Sencore HDD was a good solution, it supplied HD material with a direct connection when needed.

Today, having a large number of HD sets equipped with integrated tuners it might be better for the
retailer to subscribe to cable and make a special deal for a bulk rate of adequate CableCARD
services, have a coax splitter properly amplified at the entry point of the store, and send a coax
to each TV set, that way each set could have complete control of the program the buyer might want to
view, which makes much more dynamic and personalized the sale experience than having to ask the
salesman to change centrally the only channel the entire store is showing, which always had the
potential of disturbing another good sale, imagine someone admiring "the quality" of the Victoria's
Secret or Bikini Destinations forcing a mother with her kid at the other end of the store to view
that channel, it could be the end of that sale (and the store choice).

Viewing an HDTV at the store should provide the "pre-sale" opportunity of appreciating the image
quality tuning to various channels, HD, SD, sports, film, 16:9, 4:3, stretched, not stretched, etc.
The centralized approach never works for the informed buyer because it becomes a nuisance for both
the buyer and the sales person when having to go to other place to change a channel, after a couple
of changes the buyer starts to feel the pressure and the sales person wants to move on, the result
is less sales or disappointment at home.

The cost of the CableCARD bulk deal with the cable company could be a sale multiplier that could
probably be the best investment a retailer might do, several customers can change channels when they
want multiplying the productivity of the consulting service of the sales person when concentrating
on the important part: explaining and educating (if they know enough, but that is another problem).

The customer will go home with his/her TV and request his/her own CableCARD, the store should be
able to reuse the CableCARDS of the demo TVs when sold from the floor, the cable company have the
chance to introduce their services from the store, and maybe convince the customer of "the virtues"
of a STB for bidirectional features. It should be better for the cable company that the store does
not show satellite or Sencore distributed material; on the surface it seems as a win-win situation
for everyone (except for the satellite subscriber that has to pay for an integrated ATSC/Cable tuner
he does not need).

What Hugh experienced from Dish was most probably what someone already answered correctly: the store
might had have an E* HD-STB outputting HD to a Sencore modulator that supplied the tuned channel via
coax to the integrated TVs that tuned to that close-circuit channel.

The problems with this method are:

a) all the TVs will be slaves of the "only" channel chosen at the E* box,
b) modulating the HD output of the E* box will bring another step of conversion that degrades the
quality of the HD (from component analog to RF),
c) the potential for additional coax split degradation for all the TVs if not done properly, and
d) when eventually HD content of the choice of the viewer arrives protected with HDCP the HD signal
will NOT go thru the analog connection out of the HD-STB (for obvious reasons), the modulator will
have no signal to convert, and will not be viewable by ANY of the individual sets.

The approach of the bulk deal of the Cable CARD, if made possible, would show that protected
content, there is no need for HDMI/HDCP to make that possible.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra






-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Richard
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:28 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> No, they were using Dish and it was being shown on every television.

oh... that is a bit different...

Sencore ATSC generator? Certainly makes things easier for the retailer.
One huge advantage no one has mentioned as of yet with mandatory
integrated DTV tuners... All that infrastructure has been sitting there
unused for the most part for the last 2-4 years. I suppose some may have
ripped it out!?!?

:)

Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation

Hugh Campbell wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> No, they were using Dish and it was being shown on every television. So
> unless a JVC can have an integrated Dish tuner it was not an integrated
> tuner. The picture was excellent and I can't figure out how they did it.
>
> Hugh
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Mankin" <[email protected]>
> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
>
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> I was gonna say, if it's integrated it could be coax to the set. My Sammy
>> 56" is this way with the cable card installed and the picture is stellar.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: HDTV Magazine On
>>> Behalf Of
>>> Todd Tracey
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:31 AM
>>> To: HDTV Magazine
>>> Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
>>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> Integrated HD Tuner?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: HDTV Magazine On
>>> Behalf Of
>>> Hugh Campbell
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:12 PM
>>> To: HDTV Magazine
>>> Subject: Coax cable used for High Def???
>>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman
>>> told
>>> me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable
>>> rather
>>> than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I
>>> managed to
>>> get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going to the
>>> television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high
>>> definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
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>>> day) send an email to:
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>>
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#13
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Now that was useful answer
--- Rodolfo La Maestra <[email protected]>
wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> A little bit of history and analysis would help.
>
> Back in the days when all this started, the Sencore
> HDD approach was used (late 1998/ thru 1999) in
> some stores like Mitsubishi, at that time it was the
> only way to been able to demo HD at the control
> of the retailer, there was no 24 hr HDNet yet, and
> PBS was probably the only way to view some HD
> material if lucky enough to hit the store at the
> right time, or by invitation, as it was the case in
> the DC area with Myer Emco (late evening meetings to
> show "the" HD program), some Tipsters might
> remember those days. Later the typical 24hr loops
> of E* and DirecTV helped a bit the showroom that
> cared to install the necessary equipment,
> unfortunately most did not and hoped to sell a
> $8K-$10K
> RPTV with a DVD thru S-video (Myer-Emco included, by
> the same Myer doing the demo a group of 30
> people promoting HD).
>
> The Sencore HDD was a good solution, it supplied HD
> material with a direct connection when needed.
>
> Today, having a large number of HD sets equipped
> with integrated tuners it might be better for the
> retailer to subscribe to cable and make a special
> deal for a bulk rate of adequate CableCARD
> services, have a coax splitter properly amplified at
> the entry point of the store, and send a coax
> to each TV set, that way each set could have
> complete control of the program the buyer might want
> to
> view, which makes much more dynamic and personalized
> the sale experience than having to ask the
> salesman to change centrally the only channel the
> entire store is showing, which always had the
> potential of disturbing another good sale, imagine
> someone admiring "the quality" of the Victoria's
> Secret or Bikini Destinations forcing a mother with
> her kid at the other end of the store to view
> that channel, it could be the end of that sale (and
> the store choice).
>
> Viewing an HDTV at the store should provide the
> "pre-sale" opportunity of appreciating the image
> quality tuning to various channels, HD, SD, sports,
> film, 16:9, 4:3, stretched, not stretched, etc.
> The centralized approach never works for the
> informed buyer because it becomes a nuisance for
> both
> the buyer and the sales person when having to go to
> other place to change a channel, after a couple
> of changes the buyer starts to feel the pressure and
> the sales person wants to move on, the result
> is less sales or disappointment at home.
>
> The cost of the CableCARD bulk deal with the cable
> company could be a sale multiplier that could
> probably be the best investment a retailer might do,
> several customers can change channels when they
> want multiplying the productivity of the consulting
> service of the sales person when concentrating
> on the important part: explaining and educating (if
> they know enough, but that is another problem).
>
> The customer will go home with his/her TV and
> request his/her own CableCARD, the store should be
> able to reuse the CableCARDS of the demo TVs when
> sold from the floor, the cable company have the
> chance to introduce their services from the store,
> and maybe convince the customer of "the virtues"
> of a STB for bidirectional features. It should be
> better for the cable company that the store does
> not show satellite or Sencore distributed material;
> on the surface it seems as a win-win situation
> for everyone (except for the satellite subscriber
> that has to pay for an integrated ATSC/Cable tuner
> he does not need).
>
> What Hugh experienced from Dish was most probably
> what someone already answered correctly: the store
> might had have an E* HD-STB outputting HD to a
> Sencore modulator that supplied the tuned channel
> via
> coax to the integrated TVs that tuned to that
> close-circuit channel.
>
> The problems with this method are:
>
> a) all the TVs will be slaves of the "only" channel
> chosen at the E* box,
> b) modulating the HD output of the E* box will bring
> another step of conversion that degrades the
> quality of the HD (from component analog to RF),
> c) the potential for additional coax split
> degradation for all the TVs if not done properly,
> and
> d) when eventually HD content of the choice of the
> viewer arrives protected with HDCP the HD signal
> will NOT go thru the analog connection out of the
> HD-STB (for obvious reasons), the modulator will
> have no signal to convert, and will not be viewable
> by ANY of the individual sets.
>
> The approach of the bulk deal of the Cable CARD, if
> made possible, would show that protected
> content, there is no need for HDMI/HDCP to make that
> possible.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine
> On Behalf Of
> Richard
> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> > No, they were using Dish and it was being shown
> on every television.
>
> oh... that is a bit different...
>
> Sencore ATSC generator? Certainly makes things
> easier for the retailer.
> One huge advantage no one has mentioned as of yet
> with mandatory
> integrated DTV tuners... All that infrastructure has
> been sitting there
> unused for the most part for the last 2-4 years. I
> suppose some may have
> ripped it out!?!?
>
> :)
>
> Richard Fisher
> www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>
> Hugh Campbell wrote:
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > No, they were using Dish and it was being shown on
> every television. So
> > unless a JVC can have an integrated Dish tuner it
> was not an integrated
> > tuner. The picture was excellent and I can't
> figure out how they did it.
> >
> > Hugh
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Mankin"
> <[email protected]>
> > To: "HDTV Magazine"
> <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
> >
> >
> >> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >>
> >> I was gonna say, if it's integrated it could be
> coax to the set. My Sammy
> >> 56" is this way with the cable card installed and
> the picture is stellar.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: HDTV Magazine
> On
> >>> Behalf Of
> >>> Todd Tracey
> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:31 AM
> >>> To: HDTV Magazine
> >>> Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???
> >>>
> >>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >>>
> >>> Integrated HD Tuner?
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: HDTV Magazine
> On
> >>> Behalf Of
> >>> Hugh Campbell
>
=== message truncated ===







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#14
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Martin" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> The Dish 5000 HDTV receiver had an R/F channel 3 modulated HDTV
> output, but I didn't think it was capable of receiving any of their
> current offerings (they swapped them out a few years back). But,
> maybe they can still receive a few HD channels and that is what the
> store still has. Other than that, it would have to be some external
> modulator.
>



As you indicated, Dish Network several years ago made an HDTV ATSC modulator
that plugged into the Dish 5000 receiver and provided an 8VSB RF output on
either channel 3 or 4. This was a pure digital link from the Dish 5000
receiver to 8VSB RF output; no analog conversions involved. Since Dish
switched to 8PSK modulation, unfortunately, the Dish 5000 receiver no longer
works for most of the HDTV channels. There may be a few HDTV channels
however, that the Dish 5000 receiver can still receive. According to
LyngSat, Echostar 1 (148 degrees) transponder 31 "Discovery HD Theater" uses
standard DVB modulation which should still be compatible; maybe there are
others.


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#15
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh,

Not trying to be cute, but since you have piqued many of our minds why don't
you ask the big box store how their system is actually hooked up to view HD
broadcasts? Thanks


On 12/11/05 2:11 PM, "Hugh Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman told
> me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable rather
> than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I managed to
> get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going to the
> television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high
> definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?
>
> Hugh
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
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#16
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I did and the manager really didn't know other than it was a dish signal.
The other sets were being fed component cable but this one only had coax. I
looked and it was.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Healy" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hugh,
>
> Not trying to be cute, but since you have piqued many of our minds why
> don't
> you ask the big box store how their system is actually hooked up to view
> HD
> broadcasts? Thanks
>
>
> On 12/11/05 2:11 PM, "Hugh Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman
>> told
>> me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable rather
>> than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I managed
>> to
>> get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going to the
>> television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high
>> definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same
>> day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
>
>
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#17
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh;
Your assignment is to return to the store, and
conduct a clandestine search for the "source" of
this mysterious HDTV Feed. It should not be too
difficult to trace the coax from the rear of the
TV monitor back to the originating input - if you
exercise caution and perservence. Naturally, if
you - or any of your team - our caught or exposed,
the members of the HDTV-Magazine TIPS will disavow
ever having known you!
Good Luck!

Bob C
[email protected]
http://HDTVInfoPort.com
HDTV Demystified!


----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Campbell
To: HDTV Magazine
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I did and the manager really didn't know other
than it was a dish signal.
The other sets were being fed component cable but
this one only had coax. I
looked and it was.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Healy" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hugh,
>
> Not trying to be cute, but since you have piqued
> many of our minds why
> don't
> you ask the big box store how their system is
> actually hooked up to view
> HD
> broadcasts? Thanks
>
>
> On 12/11/05 2:11 PM, "Hugh Campbell"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store
>> and one of the salesman
>> told
>> me the picture would be much better but they
>> were using coax cable rather
>> than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal
>> source was Dish and I managed
>> to
>> get behind the set and sure enough the only
>> connection going to the
>> television was coax cable....plus the power
>> cord. The picture was high
>> definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish)
>> so how is this possible?
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click:
>> [email protected]
>>
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>> made from all posted that
>> same
>> day) send an email to:
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>
>
>
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Release Date: 12/12/2005



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#18
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh,

My first response on the subject was based on that you mentioned on another email that "they were
using Dish and it was being shown on every television."; your comment below clarifies that all the
sets except one were using component connections, which is not uncommon.

When only one set is fed coax from Dish, I frankly doubt they would have done the elaborated Sencore
approach I explained for just that TV.

I tend to agree with the response that mentioned that the store might still carry one of the first
generation E* STBs with the old OTA module plugged into the STB (model 5000 and I believe also model
6000 used the OTA module), not other STB or service that I can recall used such approach.

Check my older reports, HD-STB section, I mentioned the OTA module on those boxes. Or go to the
Dish network website, go into manuals and pull the pdf of the model 6000, if I recall correctly is
the last of the 3 documents they offer for the 6000, they mention the OTA module (the 5000 manual is
not offered for some reason).

In order to confirm what was used at this store let the manager take you to see the STB, if the STB
is NOT one of those models then look for a Sencore modulator close to the STB, but I doubt this
store would have incurred into such expense for just one set, while investing into the expense of
component wire distribution and splitters for the rest of the store, it would not make sense (other
than to facilitate a dedicated channel viewing for the personalized reasons I mentioned on my other
email).

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra







-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:30 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I did and the manager really didn't know other than it was a dish signal.
The other sets were being fed component cable but this one only had coax. I
looked and it was.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Healy" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: Coax cable used for High Def???


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hugh,
>
> Not trying to be cute, but since you have piqued many of our minds why
> don't
> you ask the big box store how their system is actually hooked up to view
> HD
> broadcasts? Thanks
>
>
> On 12/11/05 2:11 PM, "Hugh Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> I was looking at some HDTV's in a big box store and one of the salesman
>> told
>> me the picture would be much better but they were using coax cable rather
>> than component, DVI or HDMI. The signal source was Dish and I managed
>> to
>> get behind the set and sure enough the only connection going to the
>> television was coax cable....plus the power cord. The picture was high
>> definition to my eyes. Outboard tuner (Dish) so how is this possible?
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
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>> same
>> day) send an email to:
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>
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