HDMI cables $10 - $200 any difference?

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

From the HDMI group ... As long as your HDMI cable is "Category 2"
certified, it has passed the necessary tests to be able to sustain data
rates required by HDMI 1.3a. Don't fall for these "speed rated" cables
some manufacturers are trying to sell.



Shane Sturgeon



Alan Crawley wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> As an old RF guy I don't easily buy into stories of noticeable audio / video
> differences between differing qualities of patch cords, easily. In the 70s I
> could hear it in speaker cables, how is it possible with digital signals? I
> was taught its either "on" or "off, with no qualitative in-between points,
> like analog audio signals. So what's the deal with these HDMI patch cords
> selling for between $10 - $200? Is there any discernable difference? Or is
> the public being ripped off at the electronic stores?
>
> Alan
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>

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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/ ... m?hdmidept

3rd paragraph gives you some down to earth advice. A bunch more to read
if you want to get into the details.

Richard Fisher
ISF and HAA certified
HD Library is provided by Techservicesusa.com
Publisher http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php

Alan Crawley wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> As an old RF guy I don't easily buy into stories of noticeable audio / video
> differences between differing qualities of patch cords, easily. In the 70s I
> could hear it in speaker cables, how is it possible with digital signals? I
> was taught its either "on" or "off, with no qualitative in-between points,
> like analog audio signals. So what's the deal with these HDMI patch cords
> selling for between $10 - $200? Is there any discernable difference? Or is
> the public being ripped off at the electronic stores?
>
> Alan
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Ahhh, the debate that won't go away. Now, with digital, everything is
perfect. No error, no problems. Perfect transmission. That's the theory
anyway. Yet I have connected equipment via digital and analog, and the
analog performed better, even though it had to reconvert to digital. I have
heard digital copies of discs that did not sound as good as the original,
and the distinguished professor of physics, at whose house and whose system
I was playing the rerecordings, was flabbergasted as he had burned these on
his department computer (fortunately, I had an original copy of his burned
disc with me). Digital to digital, not a perfect copy.

Why a digital to digital connection of equipment does not sound as good as
two digital units connected via analog? Go ask the guys that design the
stuff, there are reasons. And while you are at it, read Audioquest's
information on HDMI:
http://www.audioquest.com/resource_tool ... apers.html. Two million
errors are a lot to correct at one time; maybe it cannot be done in time.
All I can say to this is that we can see a difference in cables in our
store. We do not base our opinion on price, feel, packaging, or anything
else other than performance. It is visible. Come see our display with
switcher to compare cables.

Joseph Azar
Upstairs Audio & Video
Columbia, SC




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:27 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: HDMI cables $10 - $200 any difference?

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

From the HDMI group ... As long as your HDMI cable is "Category 2"
certified, it has passed the necessary tests to be able to sustain data
rates required by HDMI 1.3a. Don't fall for these "speed rated" cables
some manufacturers are trying to sell.



Shane Sturgeon



Alan Crawley wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> As an old RF guy I don't easily buy into stories of noticeable audio /
video
> differences between differing qualities of patch cords, easily. In the 70s
I
> could hear it in speaker cables, how is it possible with digital signals?
I
> was taught its either "on" or "off, with no qualitative in-between points,
> like analog audio signals. So what's the deal with these HDMI patch cords
> selling for between $10 - $200? Is there any discernable difference? Or is
> the public being ripped off at the electronic stores?
>
> Alan
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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8:35 AM


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Joseph,

You're talking about video cables and the original question was about audio
cables, no?

Bill T.


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Joseph Azar
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:53 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: HDMI cables $10 - $200 any difference?

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Ahhh, the debate that won't go away. Now, with digital, everything is
perfect. No error, no problems. Perfect transmission. That's the theory
anyway. Yet I have connected equipment via digital and analog, and the
analog performed better, even though it had to reconvert to digital. I have
heard digital copies of discs that did not sound as good as the original,
and the distinguished professor of physics, at whose house and whose system
I was playing the rerecordings, was flabbergasted as he had burned these on
his department computer (fortunately, I had an original copy of his burned
disc with me). Digital to digital, not a perfect copy.

Why a digital to digital connection of equipment does not sound as good as
two digital units connected via analog? Go ask the guys that design the
stuff, there are reasons. And while you are at it, read Audioquest's
information on HDMI:
http://www.audioquest.com/resource_tool ... apers.html. Two million
errors are a lot to correct at one time; maybe it cannot be done in time.
All I can say to this is that we can see a difference in cables in our
store. We do not base our opinion on price, feel, packaging, or anything
else other than performance. It is visible. Come see our display with
switcher to compare cables.

Joseph Azar
Upstairs Audio & Video
Columbia, SC




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:27 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: HDMI cables $10 - $200 any difference?

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

From the HDMI group ... As long as your HDMI cable is "Category 2"
certified, it has passed the necessary tests to be able to sustain data
rates required by HDMI 1.3a. Don't fall for these "speed rated" cables
some manufacturers are trying to sell.



Shane Sturgeon



Alan Crawley wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> As an old RF guy I don't easily buy into stories of noticeable audio /
video
> differences between differing qualities of patch cords, easily. In the 70s
I
> could hear it in speaker cables, how is it possible with digital signals?
I
> was taught its either "on" or "off, with no qualitative in-between points,
> like analog audio signals. So what's the deal with these HDMI patch cords
> selling for between $10 - $200? Is there any discernable difference? Or is
> the public being ripped off at the electronic stores?
>
> Alan
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date: 2/27/2008
8:35 AM


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date: 2/27/2008
8:35 AM



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To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

No, it was HDMI cables. See below, but it applies to all cables. Just as
fiber distorts light, digital no less, so does a copper cable.



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Bill Tilghman
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 5:15 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: HDMI cables $10 - $200 any difference?

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Joseph,

You're talking about video cables and the original question was about audio
cables, no?

Bill T.


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Joseph Azar
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:53 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: HDMI cables $10 - $200 any difference?

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Ahhh, the debate that won't go away. Now, with digital, everything is
perfect. No error, no problems. Perfect transmission. That's the theory
anyway. Yet I have connected equipment via digital and analog, and the
analog performed better, even though it had to reconvert to digital. I have
heard digital copies of discs that did not sound as good as the original,
and the distinguished professor of physics, at whose house and whose system
I was playing the rerecordings, was flabbergasted as he had burned these on
his department computer (fortunately, I had an original copy of his burned
disc with me). Digital to digital, not a perfect copy.

Why a digital to digital connection of equipment does not sound as good as
two digital units connected via analog? Go ask the guys that design the
stuff, there are reasons. And while you are at it, read Audioquest's
information on HDMI:
http://www.audioquest.com/resource_tool ... apers.html. Two million
errors are a lot to correct at one time; maybe it cannot be done in time.
All I can say to this is that we can see a difference in cables in our
store. We do not base our opinion on price, feel, packaging, or anything
else other than performance. It is visible. Come see our display with
switcher to compare cables.

Joseph Azar
Upstairs Audio & Video
Columbia, SC




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:27 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: HDMI cables $10 - $200 any difference?

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

From the HDMI group ... As long as your HDMI cable is "Category 2"
certified, it has passed the necessary tests to be able to sustain data
rates required by HDMI 1.3a. Don't fall for these "speed rated" cables
some manufacturers are trying to sell.



Shane Sturgeon



Alan Crawley wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> As an old RF guy I don't easily buy into stories of noticeable audio /
video
> differences between differing qualities of patch cords, easily. In the 70s
I
> could hear it in speaker cables, how is it possible with digital signals?
I
> was taught its either "on" or "off, with no qualitative in-between points,
> like analog audio signals. So what's the deal with these HDMI patch cords
> selling for between $10 - $200? Is there any discernable difference? Or is
> the public being ripped off at the electronic stores?
>
> Alan
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date: 2/27/2008
8:35 AM


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date: 2/27/2008
8:35 AM



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
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To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date: 2/27/2008
8:35 AM


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8:35 AM



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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Alan, Depending on the cable rating can lead to faulty conclusions, since many manufacturers only have a single length, usually 1-2 meters, tested, and then extrapolate that rating (such as compliant with HDMI 1.3 category 2) to their whole set of lengths. This is not valid.
Since you are an RF man, you understand that transmitting digital is akin to transmitting RF along the cable, and the same problems apply. LRC distortions of the waveform are only one way the receiver can receive and detect erroneous data.
For HDMI cables, there are problems with intra-pair skew and inter-pair skew, which can cause timing errors that can lead to incorrect data received.
The longer the cable, the more such problems arise.
Installation, with possible short-radius bends or pinches, can cause problems, just as with RF.
In addition, cable performance does not monotonically increase with increasing price.
Plus, problems also show up when the source and sink HDMI hardware are not implemented at as high a quality performance level as one would assume.
As to HDMI functionality, there are many optional capabilities in the higher HDMI levels, and the rules are very flexible as to what must be implemented for the manufacturer of the equipment to be allowed to consider it complaint with that level. This is particularly problematic at the HDMI 1.3 level.
Nothing is obvious or simple in our digital consumer electronics world.
Good luck.
David J. Weinberg
Chair, AES - DC section
www.AES.org/sections/dc/
Manager, SMPTE - DC section
www.SMPTEDC.org
Associate Editor, "Multi Media Manufacturer"
www.MultiMediaManufacturer.com
Editor, "The B A S Speaker"
(publication of the Boston Audio Society)
www.BostonAudioSociety.org
10705 E. Nolcrest Drive
Silver Spring, Maryland 20903-1006
301.593.3230
[email protected]


"Alan Crawley" <[email protected]> wrote:

>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>As an old RF guy I don't easily buy into stories of noticeable audio / video
>differences between differing qualities of patch cords, easily. In the 70s I
>could hear it in speaker cables, how is it possible with digital signals? I
>was taught its either "on" or "off, with no qualitative in-between points,
>like analog audio signals. So what's the deal with these HDMI patch cords
>selling for between $10 - $200? Is there any discernable difference? Or is
>the public being ripped off at the electronic stores?
>
>Alan
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]
>

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]