HDMI issues with Toshiba HD-A1

Started by Hugh May 17, 2006 4 posts
Read-only archive
#1
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Just read the following from CNET regarding HDMI problems with the Toshiba
HD-A1 and for those interested it follows:

Hugh


When we reported a few problems with an "HDMI error" in our Toshiba HD-A1
HD-DVD player review, we were contacted by representatives of HDMI LLC, the
licensing agent behind the High-Definition Multimedia Interface, who
expressed concerns about the reports. We'd met previously with
representatives from SimplayHD, a new HDMI testing subsidiary of HDMI chip
maker Silicon Image, and we all agreed it would be a good idea to put the
HD-A1 through their rigorous testing procedure.

A few days later, the rep from SimplayHD got back to us with the results,
and they're not pretty. Apparently the Toshiba HD-A1's HDMI interface, which
provides the highest video quality among the player's outputs, is much more
susceptible to errors than any HDMI source should be. Specifically, numerous
real-world scenarios can induce the "HDMI error" readout we saw on the
Toshiba (always accompanied by a lack of any picture on the TV's screen),
which sometimes necessitates either restarting the player completely or
disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI cable, but always interrupts
playback. Here's an excerpt:

The executive summary is that the Toshiba player appears to be able to
handle only two of the many different allowed TV power-on/active states: 1)
when TV is fully on with the HDMI input selected and fully active, 2) when
HDMI signals effectively indicate the cable has been physically
disconnected. The player goes into the Error state whenever it sees the TV's
HDMI port in any other kind of standby or interrupted state, which
unfortunately, are states seen in the majority of the TVs on the market.
In other words, you could get the error and possibly cause the player to
crash by simply powering on the TV after the HD-DVD player, by switching
inputs on the TV or on an HDMI switching A/V receiver connected to the TV,
or even by powering on another piece of gear connected to the same switcher
as the player. Of course, many HDMI displays and switchers operate
differently, so they may not cause the error while others do.

It's possible that Toshiba will release a new firmware update for its HD-DVD
players, which hopefully will address the issues and make its HDMI input
less touchy. Of course, all of these problems are exacerbated by the fact
that the player takes a minute or more to even turn on, so recovering from
crashes is particularly tedious.




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#2
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----


Whenever I get the HDMI error I just have to hit play and it is gone and the
unit reads the HD DVD disc and starts from the beginning. I only get it when
I first turn the unit on since I've been routing the HDMI through my DENON
2807 receiver. When I routed it straight to my VP30 I never got any HDMI
errors.
Hopefully they will have a firmware update soon to address the numerous
issues. Although I haven't checked since I first received the unit on but I
expect a flurry of postings on the forums when there is one.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugh Campbell" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:57 PM
Subject: HDMI issues with Toshiba HD-A1


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Just read the following from CNET regarding HDMI problems with the Toshiba
> HD-A1 and for those interested it follows:
>
> Hugh
>
>
> When we reported a few problems with an "HDMI error" in our Toshiba HD-A1
> HD-DVD player review, we were contacted by representatives of HDMI LLC,
> the licensing agent behind the High-Definition Multimedia Interface, who
> expressed concerns about the reports. We'd met previously with
> representatives from SimplayHD, a new HDMI testing subsidiary of HDMI chip
> maker Silicon Image, and we all agreed it would be a good idea to put the
> HD-A1 through their rigorous testing procedure.
>
> A few days later, the rep from SimplayHD got back to us with the results,
> and they're not pretty. Apparently the Toshiba HD-A1's HDMI interface,
> which provides the highest video quality among the player's outputs, is
> much more susceptible to errors than any HDMI source should be.
> Specifically, numerous real-world scenarios can induce the "HDMI error"
> readout we saw on the Toshiba (always accompanied by a lack of any picture
> on the TV's screen), which sometimes necessitates either restarting the
> player completely or disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI cable, but
> always interrupts playback. Here's an excerpt:
>
> The executive summary is that the Toshiba player appears to be able to
> handle only two of the many different allowed TV power-on/active states:
> 1) when TV is fully on with the HDMI input selected and fully active, 2)
> when HDMI signals effectively indicate the cable has been physically
> disconnected. The player goes into the Error state whenever it sees the
> TV's HDMI port in any other kind of standby or interrupted state, which
> unfortunately, are states seen in the majority of the TVs on the market.
> In other words, you could get the error and possibly cause the player to
> crash by simply powering on the TV after the HD-DVD player, by switching
> inputs on the TV or on an HDMI switching A/V receiver connected to the TV,
> or even by powering on another piece of gear connected to the same
> switcher as the player. Of course, many HDMI displays and switchers
> operate differently, so they may not cause the error while others do.
>
> It's possible that Toshiba will release a new firmware update for its
> HD-DVD players, which hopefully will address the issues and make its HDMI
> input less touchy. Of course, all of these problems are exacerbated by the
> fact that the player takes a minute or more to even turn on, so recovering
> from crashes is particularly tedious.
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>


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#3
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh,

I discussed this matter with Silicon Image because these problems seem related to rushing a product
out to gain market position at any cost, and it could happen to Blu-ray as well if the pressure
builds up on them to come out no-matter-what.

Silicon Image's informal statement (on my exchanges) was "The player has a variety of problems, most
of which will cause some compatibility problems for some TVs. It's unfortunate for Toshiba (and HD
DVD!) that they did not run this product through Simplay HD Labs before shipping it."

If you noticed, CNet does not tell the entire story ("that Toshiba ignored the Simplay HD Labs")
perhaps to be nice to Toshiba when already in pain, but what about the player owners, don't they
deserve to know the truth? Some might have chosen to wait or ignore the product if knowing the
truth to avoid taking chances, as many informed potential buyers would have chosen already after
reading the first wave of comments.

When playing the cards of being first vs. the negative fame of a troubled player, Toshiba might have
decided to run the risk and ignore the Simplay Labs and proper testing of other non-HDMI issues, but
frankly I do not think is a surprise for them, this seems a calculated risk, timing was more
important obviously.

The problem could become a customer service nightmare if enough issues cannot be fixed with user
installable firmware upgrades, hopefully Toshiba will come forward and address the issues
responsibly, otherwise being first could be very costly, and might be an edge Blu-ray needed.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:58 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: HDMI issues with Toshiba HD-A1


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Just read the following from CNET regarding HDMI problems with the Toshiba
HD-A1 and for those interested it follows:

Hugh


When we reported a few problems with an "HDMI error" in our Toshiba HD-A1
HD-DVD player review, we were contacted by representatives of HDMI LLC, the
licensing agent behind the High-Definition Multimedia Interface, who
expressed concerns about the reports. We'd met previously with
representatives from SimplayHD, a new HDMI testing subsidiary of HDMI chip
maker Silicon Image, and we all agreed it would be a good idea to put the
HD-A1 through their rigorous testing procedure.

A few days later, the rep from SimplayHD got back to us with the results,
and they're not pretty. Apparently the Toshiba HD-A1's HDMI interface, which
provides the highest video quality among the player's outputs, is much more
susceptible to errors than any HDMI source should be. Specifically, numerous
real-world scenarios can induce the "HDMI error" readout we saw on the
Toshiba (always accompanied by a lack of any picture on the TV's screen),
which sometimes necessitates either restarting the player completely or
disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI cable, but always interrupts
playback. Here's an excerpt:

The executive summary is that the Toshiba player appears to be able to
handle only two of the many different allowed TV power-on/active states: 1)
when TV is fully on with the HDMI input selected and fully active, 2) when
HDMI signals effectively indicate the cable has been physically
disconnected. The player goes into the Error state whenever it sees the TV's
HDMI port in any other kind of standby or interrupted state, which
unfortunately, are states seen in the majority of the TVs on the market.
In other words, you could get the error and possibly cause the player to
crash by simply powering on the TV after the HD-DVD player, by switching
inputs on the TV or on an HDMI switching A/V receiver connected to the TV,
or even by powering on another piece of gear connected to the same switcher
as the player. Of course, many HDMI displays and switchers operate
differently, so they may not cause the error while others do.

It's possible that Toshiba will release a new firmware update for its HD-DVD
players, which hopefully will address the issues and make its HDMI input
less touchy. Of course, all of these problems are exacerbated by the fact
that the player takes a minute or more to even turn on, so recovering from
crashes is particularly tedious.




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#4
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

SimplayHD was only "announced" in January at CES. It's not clear when they
actually began offering testing services. It could be that testing was not
available at the time the hardware design was frozen, which I believe was
announced back in December last year. That and the delay in AACS being
finalized didn't help the issue. In fact, it wouldn't be a stretch to
suggest that AACS is somehow related to the problem.

Still, from the outside this looks like a firmware problem which is
particularly embarrassing when Toshiba is a founding member of HDMI. If you
can properly implement your own standard, you probably deserve the resulting
negative PR.

The long boot time for this device is just ridiculous. Tells me it's a
couple of generations away from being a truly consumer friendly device. J6P
going from your basic upconverting 1080i player to the new HD players might
find that objectionable.

Remains to be seen if the format even survives those couple of chipset
revisions needed to get it more user friendly.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 4:12 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: HDMI issues with Toshiba HD-A1

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh,

I discussed this matter with Silicon Image because these problems seem
related to rushing a product
out to gain market position at any cost, and it could happen to Blu-ray as
well if the pressure
builds up on them to come out no-matter-what.

Silicon Image's informal statement (on my exchanges) was "The player has a
variety of problems, most
of which will cause some compatibility problems for some TVs. It's
unfortunate for Toshiba (and HD
DVD!) that they did not run this product through Simplay HD Labs before
shipping it."

If you noticed, CNet does not tell the entire story ("that Toshiba ignored
the Simplay HD Labs")
perhaps to be nice to Toshiba when already in pain, but what about the
player owners, don't they
deserve to know the truth? Some might have chosen to wait or ignore the
product if knowing the
truth to avoid taking chances, as many informed potential buyers would have
chosen already after
reading the first wave of comments.

When playing the cards of being first vs. the negative fame of a troubled
player, Toshiba might have
decided to run the risk and ignore the Simplay Labs and proper testing of
other non-HDMI issues, but
frankly I do not think is a surprise for them, this seems a calculated risk,
timing was more
important obviously.

The problem could become a customer service nightmare if enough issues
cannot be fixed with user
installable firmware upgrades, hopefully Toshiba will come forward and
address the issues
responsibly, otherwise being first could be very costly, and might be an
edge Blu-ray needed.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:58 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: HDMI issues with Toshiba HD-A1


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Just read the following from CNET regarding HDMI problems with the Toshiba
HD-A1 and for those interested it follows:

Hugh


When we reported a few problems with an "HDMI error" in our Toshiba HD-A1
HD-DVD player review, we were contacted by representatives of HDMI LLC, the
licensing agent behind the High-Definition Multimedia Interface, who
expressed concerns about the reports. We'd met previously with
representatives from SimplayHD, a new HDMI testing subsidiary of HDMI chip
maker Silicon Image, and we all agreed it would be a good idea to put the
HD-A1 through their rigorous testing procedure.

A few days later, the rep from SimplayHD got back to us with the results,
and they're not pretty. Apparently the Toshiba HD-A1's HDMI interface, which
provides the highest video quality among the player's outputs, is much more
susceptible to errors than any HDMI source should be. Specifically, numerous
real-world scenarios can induce the "HDMI error" readout we saw on the
Toshiba (always accompanied by a lack of any picture on the TV's screen),
which sometimes necessitates either restarting the player completely or
disconnecting and reconnecting the HDMI cable, but always interrupts
playback. Here's an excerpt:

The executive summary is that the Toshiba player appears to be able to
handle only two of the many different allowed TV power-on/active states: 1)
when TV is fully on with the HDMI input selected and fully active, 2) when
HDMI signals effectively indicate the cable has been physically
disconnected. The player goes into the Error state whenever it sees the TV's
HDMI port in any other kind of standby or interrupted state, which
unfortunately, are states seen in the majority of the TVs on the market.
In other words, you could get the error and possibly cause the player to
crash by simply powering on the TV after the HD-DVD player, by switching
inputs on the TV or on an HDMI switching A/V receiver connected to the TV,
or even by powering on another piece of gear connected to the same switcher
as the player. Of course, many HDMI displays and switchers operate
differently, so they may not cause the error while others do.

It's possible that Toshiba will release a new firmware update for its HD-DVD
players, which hopefully will address the issues and make its HDMI input
less touchy. Of course, all of these problems are exacerbated by the fact
that the player takes a minute or more to even turn on, so recovering from
crashes is particularly tedious.




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To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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