----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Phil,
Good point.
However, the advertised recommendations on the packages of external HDDs are not expressed as
dependent on CPU power for the USB usage, they flat out recommend 1394 instead, otherwise they would
say "USB could perform well for video rendering/editing purposes with a minimum of XX CPU power",
and they do not.
The Xbox is another animal anyway, but we would have to wait to check how the console/player pair
perform the Hi-def DVD functions.
Analyzing the issue:
Typically AACS on the disc would trigger HDCP for connectivity protection, HDCP was designed by
Intel to run over HDMI, not USB. MPAA is all over those choices, not USB.
If the USB connection would be allowed to carry a compressed version of the video/audio stream (like
ATSC 19.4 Mbps) from player to console, it must be a protected stream for the MPAA to approve such
transport (like DTCP over 1394). Since USB might not be protected as the other connections it most
probably would not carry the stream of the movie itself, and the future HDMI cable would then go
between the player and the TV, running HDCP handshake triggered by the AACS on the disc, as
standalone player would do.
In other words, in that scenario, USB would be used to connect to the console for it to perform
supporting processing that the external player is not constructed to do (other than playing and
uncompressing), USB would not transport then the video for display purposes.
>From other angle, I do not see the MPAA starting all over again and now allowing the movie
transported by any cable that is not protected with HDCP in an uncompressed form, such as DVI and
HDMI, otherwise they would be coming back to 1998 when they were looking for a replacement of 1394
because 5c (DTCP) was considered not sufficient protection for the transport mechanism, reason by
which Panasonic removed their D-VHS from the market in 1999 a few months after its introduction.
I do not see a Hi-def DVD movie in digital form allowed to go over any other cable than HDMI with
HDCP.
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Phil Pasteur
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:31 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: ICT
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Just a thought. There is more to the difference between 1394 and USB 2 than
simply maximum data rate capacity. USB uses the CPU for processing the data
stream. With 1394 data transfer is all handled on the 1394 controller
itself. The problems that you saw Rodolfo may have been due to lack of
sufficient CPU resources for the rendering/editing or burning a DVD and
controlling the USB data stream simultaneously.
Phil p.
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:09 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: ICT
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Aaron,
Please look at the specifications of several external HDDs regarding what
connections are
recommended for the video task I described and you will see that USB is not
recommended over 1394.
By the numbers USB should work but it did not. I went ahead against the
recommendations and used
USB anyway (following a logic similar as your comment), it was blocky, it
created processing
problems, loosing frames, etc, I switched to 1394 and it was perfect, same
PC same external HDD
drive.
There is nothing wrong with the PC or the new external HDD (for that purpose
it should have at least
7200 speed, which is what I have, a 5400 does not work for that task), and
all the USB connections
work perfectly for other less demanding video purposes, such as MPEG-4
movies.
I checked with the technical support of the video studio where our TV
programs are made in MD and
they confirmed the same, do not use USB but 1394 instead, and again, this
was for this video
demanding task of rendering and editing video live. The AVI movie (6GB for
25 minutes) on the HDD
via the USB did not allow me to finish the creation of DVDs of the TV
program because of the
interruptions on the connection, the minute I switched to 1394 (which also
has 400 Mbps spec) the
problems went away.
It might not be a problem for the task MS would put that connection to do
for the Xbox, but there is
no information of what exactly that task would be until the external unit
and the HDMI wire are out.
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Aaron W. Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:51 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: ICT
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
USB 2.0 is 480mb/sec.
It is defintely fast enough. I can easily pull several ATSC video
streams(around 19mb/sec) from an external drive without any stuttering on
any of the streams on my PC. Even with an external tuner where it buffers
the program on the external drive. It can be recording a program to the
external drive and on the same PC I can watch another program from that
drive. And I can then be simultaneously watching programs off that external
drive from two other PCs on my gigabit network. An external USB drive is
more than fast enough.
If you had freezing problems there is something wrong with your hardware
becasue that should not happen.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodolfo La Maestra" <
[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <
[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:52 AM
Subject: Re: ICT
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> I am a bit skeptical with using USB rather than 1394 because in my
> experience when I render video
> movies on external fast HDDs using USB connected to the main processor USB
> is not as fast as needed,
> and 1394 is about right, reason by which external drives for heavy video
> processing are never
> recommended with only USB connections, but primarily 1394. AVI full
> digital videos processed with
> Adobe Premiere 1.5 for example for heavy video and audio editing are
> transferred with freezes using
> the USB connection, but do it well with 1394.
>
> I am not sure what to expect from this HDMI wire and USB wire pair formula
> combination, but is seems
> as the HDMI wire is to come from the external unit, the existing Xbox does
> not have such output so
> the near future MS HDMI wire would not have a place on the actual console.
>
> In other words, if the HDMI output will be on the external player unit (to
> connect directly to the
> TV) the USB to the main box could perhaps be used for some other
> functionality of that play back
> task but not necessarily to do the actual transfer of HD 36Mbps video from
> the disc. In that case,
> the comment Shane did is very valid, about the extra cost of HDMI chip and
> licensing for HDMI, AACS,
> HDCP, etc, which would be charged over such external box, not the console,
> and at $200+ price range
> does not seem to make sense, unless it will be grossly subsidized by MS,
> which would not surprise
> me, just to beat Sony's higher end unit at a single price, this is a
> subsidizing war as well.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:31 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: ICT
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> USB 2.0 is 40Mb/sec, which is far higher than the 19.4 of ATSC 1080i,
> higher than the 28.8 (?) of D-Theatre, and should be able to support
> 1080p24 or 1080p30 (not sure about 1080p60).
>
> Aaron W. Thompson wrote:
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>
>> Here is a link with pictures of the HD DVD drive.
>>
http://media.gear.ign.com/articles/706/ ... mgs_1.html
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Sturgeon"
>> <
[email protected]>
>> To: "HDTV Magazine" <
[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 3:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: ICT
>>
>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> I'm not assuming that. I'm going by what has been indicated/released.
>>> It is a USB connection from the HD DVD drive to the Xbox console. My
>>> conclusion is that is why they are able to make it so cheaply
>>> (rumored to be less than $250) is because they don't have to include
>>> any silicon or licensing or processor power to to the encryption. It
>>> just passes the data stream to the console.
>>>
>>> I will try to dig up more dependable info.
>>>
>>> Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>> Shane,
>>>>
>>>> You are assuming the console is the one transmitting the HD DVD
>>>> content to the TV, until we see the
>>>> external unit and the cables we will not know for sure which piece
>>>> would do the various jobs, but it
>>>> seems the new HDMI cable would connect the external unit directly to
>>>> the TV to play the discs (while
>>>> connected to the console separately of course), in such case it
>>>> might be the role of the external
>>>> unit to perform content protection (AACS and HDCP) to send the
>>>> signal to its HDMI output, not the
>>>> console. Since the unit would be released later this year it could
>>>> also be a possibility that the
>>>> HDMI output would be version 1.3, although the Sony PS3 was said to
>>>> be delivered with non-1.3 by
>>>> November.
>>>>
>>>> If you come across any reliable source that itemizes how the
>>>> functions of disc playing are
>>>> distributed in the pair and how each connection would be used,
>>>> please share it.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: HDTV Magazine On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>> Shane Sturgeon
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:57 PM
>>>> To: HDTV Magazine
>>>> Subject: Re: ICT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>> Keep in mind, this is all rumor ... but for the sake of discussion:
>>>>
>>>> I had not seen that link Rodolfo. After reading, it raises a few
>>>> questions:
>>>> - Was the Xbox 360 designed to support digital video transmission?
>>>> - Was the Xbox 360 designed with HDCP & AACS in mind (i.e. chip sets &
>>>> licensing)?
>>>>
>>>> I do not know the answers, but I believe they are important if
>>>> Microsoft
>>>> wants it's console to be used as an HD DVD player.
>>>>
>>>> Re: PS3 - I have read that as well ... PS3 will have a higher-end model
>>>> that will support that.
>>>>
>>>> Re: The gaming industry pushing HDTV - Is it really a surprise? I've
>>>> been reading stories for quite a while about how many HDTV's the Xbox
>>>> 360 "sold". And particularly now that both main-stream gaming consoles
>>>> are pushing into the movie space.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding those projections ... it seems unlikely that 2010 or even
>>>> 2012
>>>> will be a hard date for implementation of ICT. Based on this rumor, we
>>>> will have AT LEAST that long though.
>>>>
>>>> For the record ... I have nothing against DRM as long as it doesn't get
>>>> in the way of quality. I say "bring it on" if it means I can enjoy the
>>>> content that much sooner, or that much cheaper. But I reserve the right
>>>> to change my opinion
.
>>>>
>>>> A lot to think about here.
>>>>
>>>> -- Shane Sturgeon
>>>> HDTV Magazine
>>>>
www.hdtvmagazine.com
>>>> AOL Screen Name: HDTV Help
>>>> Skype: HDTVMagazine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>
>>>>> Shane,
>>>>>
>>>>> A week ago I sent this link on a Tip for an HDMI cable for the
>>>>> XBox, are you saying that the cable
>>>>> is not going to be implemented by MS?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ent ... able-annou
nced-sorta-173678.php
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The PS3 should be counted out because they actually offer two
>>>>> versions, one for gamers that do not
>>>>> want to pay more for HDTV Blu-ray features at full resolution but
>>>>> mainly gaming, and the other for
>>>>> the ones that want to use the console for that (and has HDMI), I
>>>>> consider the approach wise
>>>> because
>>>>> not everyone wants to pay for a Ferrari to drive downtown.
>>>>>
>>>>> The rumor you are mentioning seems to promote the idea that the
>>>>> gaming industry is now driving the
>>>>> HDTV industry.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are 285 million TVs to be replaced with digital versions
>>>>> eventually, 2.6 per household, most
>>>>> of them used as secondary TVs for prerecorded media (games
>>>>> included) in other places of the house,
>>>>> 10 million of the currents sets would be put eventually to that
>>>>> service so people would not have
>>>> to
>>>>> buy a new set for those purposes.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the magic deadline (2010-2) those HDTV sets would be destined to
>>>>> just play 480p prerecorded
>>>> media
>>>>> over the component analog (no 1080i upconversion for CSS protected
>>>>> DVDs, as it is now), and thanks
>>>>> to the ICT no 1080i from 1080i content either, in other words those
>>>>> sets would be reduced to a
>>>> EDTV
>>>>> category for pre-recorded media (and probably for cable/satellite
>>>>> as well if the MPAA gets what
>>>> they
>>>>> want).
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not consider 2010 or even 2012 to be a deadline that should be
>>>>> implemented because it assumes
>>>>> 10 million TVs that are in good condition will be gladly used by
>>>>> those owners for services below
>>>>> their capabilities, not to mention the people that would still have
>>>>> them as their main set still
>>>> in
>>>>> 5 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. Good, my first email from the Tips. Magic from the Gods.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: HDTV Magazine On
>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> M. Shane Sturgeon
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:42 PM
>>>>> To: HDTV Magazine
>>>>> Subject: Re: ICT
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>
>>>>> And there's a rumor going around that "Hollywood" may be making a
>>>>> deal to
>>>>> delay implementing ICT on ANY media until 2010 or 2012.
>>>>>
>>>>>
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/05/20/ict-a- ... east-2010/
>>>>>
>>>>> The rumor is that this has a lot to do with the new HD DVD drive
>>>>> for Xbox,
>>>>> and that it connects to the main console via USB ... and the main
>>>>> console
>>>>> only supports analog video connection.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- M. Shane Sturgeon
>>>>> HDTV Magazine
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> |---------+--------------------------------->
>>>>> | | Anthony Rizzuto |
>>>>> | | <
[email protected]> |
>>>>> | | Sent by: "HDTV |
>>>>> | | Magazine" |
>>>>> | | <hdtvmagazine_tips@ilo|
>>>>> | | vehdtv.com> |
>>>>> | | |
>>>>> | | |
>>>>> | | 05/23/2006 12:28 PM |
>>>>> | | Please respond to |
>>>>> | | "HDTV Magazine" |
>>>>> |---------+--------------------------------->
>>>>>
>>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
-
> --
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------|
>>>>> |
>>>>> |
>>>>> | To: "HDTV Magazine" <
[email protected]>
>>>>> |
>>>>> | cc:
>>>>> |
>>>>> | Subject: Re: testing the tips system
>>>>> |
>>>>>
>>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
-
> --
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------|
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a problem sir. Quite a lively debate between you and Richard.
>>>>> I have
>>>>> tremendous respect for both of you and have received help from the
>>>>> two of
>>>>> you in the past. I would have a tendency in this case to agree
>>>>> more with
>>>>> you Rodolfo. I'm very happy that the industry is trying to push the
>>>>> envelope technologically with advancements such as 1080p. Having said
>>>>> that, I don't wish to be forced to purchase new equipment on a
>>>>> manufacturer's, Hollywood's or any one Else's time table but my
>>>>> own. I
>>>>> purchased my Mits display in 02 for 6 k including tax and extended
>>>>> warranty
>>>>> with the intentions of getting eight to ten years out of it. You can
>>>>> imagine my dismay and the dismay of others when we were told that
>>>>> in order
>>>>> to watch an HD version of prerecorded media we would now need to
>>>>> shell out
>>>>> several thousand again for the privilege and oh by the way you now
>>>>> have a
>>>>> six thousand dollar boat anchor sitting in your living room. I
>>>>> have one
>>>>> word for what they've put first adopters
>>>>> through for the last three years, "MENDACITY"!!!! Anyway, for the
>>>>> time
>>>>> being component works and will for several years I hope. At that
>>>>> point
>>>>> perhaps I will finally find what I consider to be an acceptable
>>>>> replacement
>>>>> for rp crt.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best and as always thanks for your hard work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anthony R.
>>>>> Orlando, FL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> nal Message ----
>>>>> From: Rodolfo La Maestra <
[email protected]>
>>>>> To: HDTV Magazine <
[email protected]>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 2:18:47 AM
>>>>> Subject: testing the tips system
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry I need to test the system due to missing emails, my apologies
>>>>> for
>>>>> invading your incoming
>>>>> boxes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe please click:
[email protected]
>>>>>
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>>>>> that same
>>>>> day) send an email to:
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe please click:
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe please click:
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>>>>
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>>>> that same day) send an email to:
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shane Sturgeon
>>> HDTV Magazine
>>>
www.hdtvmagazine.com
>>> AOL Screen Name: HDTV Help
>>> Skype: HDTVMagazine
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click:
[email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>>> same day) send an email to:
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
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