----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
I see where you listed a 720P LCD, 720P Plasma, and a 1080P plasma. But what
about a 1080P LCD? How many lines of resolution does that when an object is
moving? Why was that omitted?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodolfo La Maestra" <
[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine Tips List" <
[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: LCD claims question from Richard
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Richard,
>
> I found a way around it and get some of the material and the graphs, from
> Panasonic:
>
> Pages 17 and 18:
>
>
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/c ... pers/Futur
> e_Looks_Bright_for_Plasma_TVs.pdf
>
>
> Also, another interesting reading of LCD vs plasma, from Pete:
>
>
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/c ... pers/Flat_
> Panel_Displays_Whitepaper.pdf
>
>
> I guess the Tips list paid off today?
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:53 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Re: LCD claims question from Richard
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Richard,
>
> Checking on the Display Search site the only way to "legally" get the
> original full report with the graphs is by paying $995, so I assume that
> even when I can go back to my recorded files of the proceedings from the
> 2007 conference I would not be able to publish it at the open here.
>
> But I think the excerpt on my previous email is enough for an eye opener.
>
> In gross numbers, the expected resolution of an LCD during motion is about
> half of a plasma. So when you get a 1080p LCD you are actually getting
> half
> of the resolution quality of a 1080p plasma when displaying motion images.
>
> Unless you are buying the panel just to display photos, that weakness
> would
> happen all the time, the purpose of TV, constant motion.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:36 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: LCD claims question from Richard
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Richard,
>
> Here is part of the study (the figure 18 chart did not show on this
> plain-text email):
>
> ------------------------------
> Display Search w/Panasonic Plasma White paper
> Presented by Ross Young, president of Display Search on the 2007 HDTV
> Conference
>
> Moving Picture Resolution
>
> Plasma panels are known for their ability to reproduce fast-moving video
> images, resulting in smooth video images of sports and other action
> content.
> This ability is not a strength of LCD TVs due to the "display and hold"
> nature of LCDs where the whole image is changed once every picture frame
> and
> then held fixed. For 60Hz systems sold in the US, this occurs every
> 16.67ms
> or 60 times per second. This makes it difficult for the eye and brand to
> perceive a smoothly moving image. In plasma, the 17ms period is broken
> down
> into shorter sub-frames and the image is reset many times.
>
> LCD manufacturers are trying to overcome this limitation by breaking up
> each
> frame by using blinking backlights, by introducing temporary black images
> or
> doubling the refresh rate. Some of these solutions have downsides in the
> potential for flicker, reduced brightness, higher power consumption and
> higher costs, but do lead to smoother video. In the 120Hz case where the
> image is changed twice per frame, the electronics costs increase by $5-$6
> in
> the case of 720p and $7 - $9 in the case of 1080p. In addition, panel
> suppliers are charging 6%-7% more for the panel, so it can be a $50 cost
> adder.
>
> It has been difficult for plasma manufacturers to quantify this advantage
> over LCD manufacturers until recently. The APDC has developed a system to
> measure moving picture resolution which includes a digital camera, signal
> generator, a controller PC and image data processing software. Motion
> picture resolution is quantified by scrolling the test image onto the
> display to simulate a moving picture, the movement of the camera is
> adjusted
> to the movement of the image so that it can be captured and then the image
> is captured by the camera, analyzed and expressed mathematically to
> indicate
> the precise moving picture resolution. This approach simulates the way the
> human eye works, reconstructing the image reflected on the retina
> producing
> quantitative analysis very close to the way people see images.
>
> Panasonic recently applied this methodology to three of their TVs as shown
> in Figure 18. As indicated, the 1080p plasma display produced 900 lines of
> moving resolution with the image moving across the screen at five seconds.
> The 720p PD reproduced all 720 lines while the 720p LCD only reproduced
> 300
> lines. As the image speed increases, the LCD moving picture resolution
> significantly deteriorates due to motion blur. According to Panasonic,
> 120Hz
> LCDs doubles resolution to 600 lines at a significant premium, but is
> still
> well below plasma's moving picture results.
>
> We expect plasma manufacturers to generate increased awareness on their
> moving picture resolution advantage.
> ------------------------
>
> Anyone interested on the "display and hold" technique of LCD feel free to
> read an article I wrote on January about the subject:
>
>
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/20 ... h_your_eye
> s.php
>
>
> Again, a viewer that is serious about image quality should reconsider
> getting an LCD.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:21 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: RE: Viewing Angle
>
>
> I guess I got you attention to that claim.
>
> Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
> resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
> equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
> (Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
> attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic
> that
> certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.
>
> The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
> huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that
> only
> he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
> for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Richard Fisher
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> > c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> > worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> > Search about one year ago.
>
> happen to have a link to that?
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
> A/V Science Editor
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
> Community Director
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
> ISF and HAA certified
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Larry,
>>
>> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than
>> the
>> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>>
>> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
>> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>>
>> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
>> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
> conditions
>> and viewing requirements first?
>>
>> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
> of
>> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>>
>> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>>
>> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
> such
>> as:
>>
>> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
> defined
>> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green
>> without
>> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
> and
>> greenery at the distance), and
>>
>> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
> fabric
>> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>>
>> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
>> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
>> Search about one year ago.
>>
>> That is just to mention a few.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Rodolfo La Maestra
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
>> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>> Subject: Viewing Angle
>>
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Rodolfo and Richard,
>>
>>
>> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
> CRT
>> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the
>> PQ!
>>
>> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
> with
>> Fresnel lenses.
>>
>>
>> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
> if
>> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
> they
>> use or both?
>>
>> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to
>> maybe
>> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
>> something screen size.
>>
>> Any help out there?
>>
>>
>> Nice to have the tips list back!
>>
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
>> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
>> weeks. Sorry about that.
>>
>> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
>> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
>> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>>
>> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>>
>> Game on...
>>
>> Shane Sturgeon
>> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
>> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
>> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:
[email protected]>
>> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
>>
www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>>
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