----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Spin City...
I guess the net of this report is ... nothing. Quotes out of context and
half the information for any real analysis. I hope ISF sees that they should
not have been a part of this study in any way, shape, or form. If they 'hope
to do some extended tests' some day, they can obviously do so very easily.
To allow their name to be used in such a tiny snippet of what could have
been a valid test is a small black eye for the ISF.
Jason
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Richard
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 10:30 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Lots of Good HD Info
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> This study is hilarious. The head of ISF actually made it sound like they
> don't have the resources to leave a plasma on with half life 2 on the
screen
> for more than a weekend? What a joke.
Hu?
While ISF proposed the test and IDC and Pioneer accepted, "we actually
asked if we could add as
many days of fixed images at factory presets as needed until we found
the points of failure for each
TV, Silver said. But the idea was rejected because the time needed for
such tests "was not in the plans
for this report," he said. "I would still like to run those extended
tests one day."
Like Hugh said,
What do you expect......Pioneer "paid" for the study. Ha!
IDC and Pioneer decided such tests "was not in the plans for this report,"
Pioneer said Wed. it sought to boost plasma TV's share of the HD display
business -- not react to
declining share -- when it commissioned an IDC research study to debunk
common plasma "myths" it
said have tarnished the technology's reputation.
I am not all saying that the IDC article originally posted for this
thread is not a bunch of spin, it is as Steve Martin clearly pointed
out. I am only making sure it is clear that the ISF was hired to collect
the data and in no way does it represent an ISF interpretation,
conclusion or endorsement.
Does this look bad for the ISF? I suppose but it is not the first nor
will it be the last time that a study was commissioned, pros hired to
collect the data and the results spun for their own purpose and the pros
unable to really do anything about it. Other industries are filled with
the same junk science to promote their own agendas. Contrast ratio
anybody? The ISF could be hired to make those measurements but that does
not change the junk science behind the presentation of those numbers.
The pro is hired to insure the data is correct, not the conclusion,
unfortunately.
As Joe Kane recently said in the 100th anniversary edition of WSR,
The future is all about education and making intelligent choices. Others
will tell you about consumer trends. Plasma is it. Well, maybe someday
in the future, but if you want a good image now, it doesn't yet come in
a plasma.
If you own a plasma all the more power to you but the science of imaging
is not being met, not yet anyway...
Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
Jason Burroughs wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> This study is hilarious. The head of ISF actually made it sound like they
> don't have the resources to leave a plasma on with half life 2 on the
screen
> for more than a weekend? What a joke.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Richard
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 1:06 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Lots of Good HD Info
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Going over some real old email....
>
> > Can I believe my ears(eyes). Are you questioning the motives and
> > conclusions of the ISF who worked along with IDC to do the work? The
> grand
> > Mullahs of all that is TV may not know how to measure color? Black
level?
> > and wouldn't understand burn-in?
>
> The ISF only provided the data, not the interpretation. This is another
> press release in which the ISF was questioned.
>
> 'Burn-in' a Myth on Modern Plasma TVs, Pioneer-Paid Study Finds
>
> Pioneer said Wed. it sought to boost plasma TV's share of the HD display
> business -- not react to
> declining share -- when it commissioned an IDC research study to debunk
> common plasma "myths" it
> said have tarnished the technology's reputation.
> IDC found that while "there may be a tiny glimmer of truth" to
> unfavorable beliefs among the public
> -- that plasma screens are susceptible to "burn-in," have shorter life
> expectancies than other
> technologies and can't deliver the black level performance of CRTs --
> such perceptions "are all
> myths." The study's bottom line was that plasma TVs "are an excellent
> choice for consumers who are
> willing to pay the relatively high price for these displays and want
> accurate image recreation,
> particularly in viewing environments with controlled lighting," IDC
> said. That message will be
> drummed home in Pioneer ads and merchandising materials, company
> executives said.
> Burn-in -- euphemistically called "image retention" at a Pioneer N.Y.
> news briefing where the IDC
> results were disclosed -- is the top sales objection voiced by customers
> pondering a plasma TV
> purchase, Harvey Electronics Pres. Franklin Karp told reporters. Karp
> said Harvey has sold thousands
> of plasma TVs and only once did a customer report burn-in -- and that on
> a plasma set that had been
> "abused." Karp, a Pioneer Elite dealer, applauded the CE maker for
> undertaking the study. Asked if
> plasma was Harvey's best seller among flat panel TVs, Karp said
> large-screen LCD TVs were
> beginning to take away share.
>
> In the study, IDC, with Imaging Science Foundation (ISF) of Boca Raton,
> Fla., tested 9 TV set
> models of 7 brands bought at stores in June and July. The sets were 3
> plasma TVs, 3 LCD TVs and 3
> microdisplay rearprojection TVs. The tests were done in Cal. and Fla. by
> ISF technicians. The TVs
> were calibrated for brightness, contrast and sharpness using THX tools
> found on many movie DVDs.
> Measurements were taken for screen brightness and color accuracy, among
> other parameters. After
> the TVs' settings were returned to their factory defaults, burn-in tests
> were performed by leaving the
> menu from the game Half-Life 2 on screen 48 hours. IDC and ISF said this
> simulated what would
> happen if a consumer accidentally left a static image on a set while
> away for a weekend.
> "While image retention can occur in modern plasmas, the effect is
> temporary," the study found. All 3
> of the plasma sets showed evidence of burn-in after the 48-hour "torture
> test" -- but after a DVD
> movie set to continuously loop was played for 24 hours, all traces of
> burn-in disappeared, the study
> said.
>
> Leaving the videogame menu on screen for 48 hours "went against my
> instincts," ISF Pres. Joel Silver
> confided to Consumer Electronics Daily . "At our certification sessions,
> we have always been
> concerned about simply leaving test patterns on during lunch breaks." He
> said early plasma TVs ISF
> had worked with often were "damaged by peak white fixed patterns in
> under 2 hours," Silver told us.
> Having the torture test simulate leaving a videogame or a DVD menu on
> while a family went away
> for a weekend is "certainly a real-world event in our opinion," Silver
> said. "I was pleasantly surprised
> that the image retention was not a permanent burn."
>
> While ISF proposed the test and IDC and Pioneer accepted, "we actually
> asked if we could add as
> many days of fixed images at factory presets as needed until we found
> the points of failure for each
> TV, Silver said. But the idea was rejected because the time needed for
> such tests "was not in the plans
> for this report," he said. "I would still like to run those extended
> tests one day."
> Silver said everyone knows "that any phosphor device can be burned,"
> although the study showed
> modern plasma TVs are "more rugged than we expected." Nevertheless, ISF
> has found even
> CRT-based rearprojection TVs "here in Florida commonly burned by
> retirees watching the stock
> market ticker tape for months on end," he said. Moreover, he said, DLP
> founder Texas Instruments
> also has documented LCD failures during extended use, he said. "At our
> sessions we are seeing
> surprising light-bulb light output falloff," he said. He said ISF
> regards the 30-day Pioneer test as "an
> excellent start, but it has certainly whetted our appetite for more
> extended research." -- Paul Gluckman
> - - - - - - - - -
> John Godfrey
> Vice President, Government & Industry Affairs
> Pioneer North America, Inc.
> 3 Bethesda Metro Center, Suite 700
> Bethesda, MD 20814
> 301-961-1502 (voice)
> 301-657-9776 (fax)
> 202-997-2771 (mobile)
>
[email protected]
>
>
> Richard Fisher
>
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>
> Joe Hart wrote:
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Folks,
>>Can I believe my ears(eyes). Are you questioning the motives and
>>conclusions of the ISF who worked along with IDC to do the work? The
>
> grand
>
>>Mullahs of all that is TV may not know how to measure color? Black level?
>>and wouldn't understand burn-in?
>>
>>Time for a second dose of the Kool-Aid.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Joe Hart
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>Steve Martin
>>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:41 PM
>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>Subject: Re: Lots of Good HD Info
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>There are so many things wrong with that report that I don't know
>>where to begin.
>>
>>They counter image persistence issues with a study that shows that if
>>you "wash it" with 24 hours of moving image, no persistent image is
>>visible. One problem I have with most plasma's is images that
>>persist for 30 seconds or so after a static image has been displayed
>>for a similar amount of time, that was not addressed. When I
>>calibrate, I often put up a white window and then afterward a black
>>screen. The white window can take a while to fade out. I'm also
>>really not sure what their test shows with regard to burn in of
>>things like station logos that happen over months.
>>
>>They address light output lifespan with two data points. Brand new
>>and 4 weeks later. Then make lifespan claims. With out more data
>>points we know very little about how fast they initially dimmed and
>>then how much it leveled off or not. The lamp based displays can
>>have their lamps replaced and return to their original brightness
>>which is not an option for the plasmas and amazingly not mentioned.
>>For all we know in their test, the lamp based displays lost all their
>>brightness the first day and flattened out, while the plasma stayed
>>steady for a couple of weeks and then started dropping fast. One
>>will never know from their test.
>>
>>They say the black level is darker than the "reference CRT" display
>>but never quote any numbers from the "reference CRT".
>>They indicate the black level INCREASED over time on the plasma
>>display. That sounds very unlikely and is worthy of further
>>investigation. It is frightening to think the black level is getting
>>worse over time (lighter) as the brightness is decreasing. Do they
>>meet in the middle at some point?
>>
>>I have yet to comprehend what they are talking about with regard to
>>color accuracy at varying saturation levels, etc. It sounds like they
>>have detected varying levels of non-linear color decoding on the
>>various sets. That is a design/implementation issue that I wouldn't
>>think would be technology related, but again, it is hard to tell
>>exactly what they were testing.
>>
>>At least the viewing angle tests and color purity across the screen
>>tests seemed reasonable.
>>
>>Pioneer is placing a lot of eggs in the plasma basket. Pioneer
>>funded the study. Draw your own conclusions.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Aug 17, 2005, at 8:13 PM, Hugh Campbell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>The link posted below includes a "white paper" on a series of tests
>>>done on plasma, LCD and microdisplay screens regarding black levels
>>>and burn in to name a couple. I hope that someone will read this
>>>over and confirm or rebuke what the tests appear to "prove". It
>>>seems that burn in and black levels are not a problem with the
>>>newer plasma sets. This was prepared for Pioneer....gee what a
>>>surprise.
>>>
>>>Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: <
[email protected]>
>>>To: "HDTV Magazine" <
[email protected]>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:16 PM
>>>Subject: Lots of Good HD Info
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>>_http://broadcastengineering.com/newsletters/hd_tech/20050817/_
>>>>(
http://broadcastengineering.com/newslet ... /20050817/) #
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Good HD reading!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Enjoy...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Don, W4WJ
>>>>
>>>>To unsubscribe please click:
[email protected]
>>>>
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>>>>that same day) send an email to:
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>that same day) send an email to:
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Steve Martin
http://www.cheezmo.com/
>>Smart Calibration, LLC
http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>>The Widescreen Movie Center
http://www.widemovies.com/
>>Letterboxed Movie TV Schedule
http://www.widemovies.com/lbx.html
>>
>>
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>
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