more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats work and how backward
compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you would need them; please wait
until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail at the Tips I am taking
off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.

The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative reactions on current
owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.

Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so read on:

Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at least three things:

a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is reduced to a number of
ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently overheat and puff!.

The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp is = (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result in a 2 ohm resultant for
the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for most budget receivers when
driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be so well designed and
burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around the house with cheap speaker
distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series resistances for the drop of
impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.

Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms would be (8x4)/(8+4)
would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many receivers are lately
putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".

b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.

c) both play the same signal (mono).

Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if you would be doing the
same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before cranking that knob.

I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a Dreadnaught Theta that is
a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8 ohms would melt.

Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter, midrange, woofer), so is not
always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of music can make the
impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic math above would at least
tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you connect them.

The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on this list that could expand
on this if you need more info.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog and
digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
their ability to carry information).

I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
as well?

My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front L/R,
surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need an
amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had outputs
for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the sound
elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround back
channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
which means they are both running mono, correct?

So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the two
major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?

What a mess!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD

Jason,

The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs and
DD +-400 kps compressed
formats.

Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and where
the decoding must take
place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
always be DTS and DD
backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
can not handle the
latest.



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a single
title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to run
those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver with
something capable of decoding the new formats.

I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
compatibility

Thanks,

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
work and how backward
compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you would
need them; please wait
until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail at
the Tips I am taking
off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.

The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
reactions on current
owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.

Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so read
on:

Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
least three things:

a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
reduced to a number of
ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently overheat
and puff!.

The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp is
= (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result in
a 2 ohm resultant for
the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
most budget receivers when
driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
so well designed and
burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around the
house with cheap speaker
distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
resistances for the drop of
impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.

Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
would be (8x4)/(8+4)
would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
receivers are lately
putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".

b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.

c) both play the same signal (mono).

Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
you would be doing the
same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before cranking
that knob.

I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
Dreadnaught Theta that is
a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
ohms would melt.

Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter, midrange,
woofer), so is not
always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
music can make the
impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
math above would at least
tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
connect them.

The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on this
list that could expand
on this if you need more info.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog and
digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
their ability to carry information).

I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
as well?

My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front L/R,
surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need an
amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had outputs
for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the sound
elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround back
channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
which means they are both running mono, correct?

So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the two
major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?

What a mess!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD

Jason,

The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs and
DD +-400 kps compressed
formats.

Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and where
the decoding must take
place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
always be DTS and DD
backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
can not handle the
latest.



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers you put in parallel and
apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by your receiver on that output
speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".

If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to buy a small speaker
switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance compensation so it does not drop as
with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the front that when you press it
it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).

Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the leg of speakers of low
impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound quality, like having long
cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which affects the total impedance).

Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but that could cause sound
problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much as with a 2 ohm load in
parallel.

Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a balance problem because
when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not affect this amp since the
signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to operate two volumes in sync
then.

Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle impedance loads down to at
least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then be controlled centrally
by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play from non 7.1 content.

By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel would share the power, I meant
in series, so remove that from the previous list.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a single
title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to run
those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver with
something capable of decoding the new formats.

I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
compatibility

Thanks,

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
work and how backward
compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you would
need them; please wait
until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail at
the Tips I am taking
off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.

The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
reactions on current
owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.

Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so read
on:

Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
least three things:

a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
reduced to a number of
ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently overheat
and puff!.

The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp is
= (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result in
a 2 ohm resultant for
the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
most budget receivers when
driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
so well designed and
burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around the
house with cheap speaker
distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
resistances for the drop of
impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.

Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
would be (8x4)/(8+4)
would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
receivers are lately
putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".

b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.

c) both play the same signal (mono).

Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
you would be doing the
same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before cranking
that knob.

I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
Dreadnaught Theta that is
a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
ohms would melt.

Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter, midrange,
woofer), so is not
always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
music can make the
impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
math above would at least
tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
connect them.

The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on this
list that could expand
on this if you need more info.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog and
digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
their ability to carry information).

I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
as well?

My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front L/R,
surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need an
amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had outputs
for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the sound
elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround back
channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
which means they are both running mono, correct?

So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the two
major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?

What a mess!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD

Jason,

The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs and
DD +-400 kps compressed
formats.

Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and where
the decoding must take
place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
always be DTS and DD
backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
can not handle the
latest.



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is set
to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
speaker, then from that speaker to the other.

For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater store
that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure, he
said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
shack and pick one up.

Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
(I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
you put in parallel and
apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by your
receiver on that output
speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".

If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
buy a small speaker
switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance compensation
so it does not drop as
with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the front
that when you press it
it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).

Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
leg of speakers of low
impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
quality, like having long
cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which affects
the total impedance).

Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
that could cause sound
problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
as with a 2 ohm load in
parallel.

Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
balance problem because
when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
affect this amp since the
signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to operate
two volumes in sync
then.

Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
impedance loads down to at
least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
be controlled centrally
by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
from non 7.1 content.

By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel would
share the power, I meant
in series, so remove that from the previous list.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a single
title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to run
those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver with
something capable of decoding the new formats.

I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
compatibility

Thanks,

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
work and how backward
compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you would
need them; please wait
until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail at
the Tips I am taking
off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.

The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
reactions on current
owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.

Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so read
on:

Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
least three things:

a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
reduced to a number of
ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently overheat
and puff!.

The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp is
= (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result in
a 2 ohm resultant for
the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
most budget receivers when
driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
so well designed and
burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around the
house with cheap speaker
distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
resistances for the drop of
impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.

Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
would be (8x4)/(8+4)
would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
receivers are lately
putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".

b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.

c) both play the same signal (mono).

Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
you would be doing the
same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before cranking
that knob.

I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
Dreadnaught Theta that is
a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
ohms would melt.

Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter, midrange,
woofer), so is not
always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
music can make the
impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
math above would at least
tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
connect them.

The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on this
list that could expand
on this if you need more info.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog and
digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
their ability to carry information).

I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
as well?

My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front L/R,
surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need an
amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had outputs
for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the sound
elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround back
channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
which means they are both running mono, correct?

So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the two
major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?

What a mess!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD

Jason,

The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs and
DD +-400 kps compressed
formats.

Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and where
the decoding must take
place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
always be DTS and DD
backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
can not handle the
latest.



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Excuse my crude ascii drawing but to be in series, this is how the speakers would need to be wired.

Hope this helps.

Speaker 1 Speaker 2
________ ________
| | | |
| | | |
| - + ---- |-------|-- - + |
| | | | | |
----|------------ ----------|------
| |
To amp (neg) To amp (pos)

Perry















----- Original Message ----
From: Jason Burroughs <[email protected]>
To: HDTV Magazine <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:04:39 PM
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is set
to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
speaker, then from that speaker to the other.

For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater store
that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure, he
said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
shack and pick one up.

Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
(I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
you put in parallel and
apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by your
receiver on that output
speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".

If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
buy a small speaker
switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance compensation
so it does not drop as
with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the front
that when you press it
it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).

Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
leg of speakers of low
impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
quality, like having long
cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which affects
the total impedance).

Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
that could cause sound
problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
as with a 2 ohm load in
parallel.

Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
balance problem because
when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
affect this amp since the
signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to operate
two volumes in sync
then.

Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
impedance loads down to at
least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
be controlled centrally
by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
from non 7.1 content.

By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel would
share the power, I meant
in series, so remove that from the previous list.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a single
title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to run
those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver with
something capable of decoding the new formats.

I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
compatibility

Thanks,

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
work and how backward
compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you would
need them; please wait
until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail at
the Tips I am taking
off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.

The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
reactions on current
owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.

Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so read
on:

Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
least three things:

a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
reduced to a number of
ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently overheat
and puff!.

The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp is
= (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result in
a 2 ohm resultant for
the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
most budget receivers when
driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
so well designed and
burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around the
house with cheap speaker
distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
resistances for the drop of
impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.

Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
would be (8x4)/(8+4)
would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
receivers are lately
putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".

b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.

c) both play the same signal (mono).

Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
you would be doing the
same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before cranking
that knob.

I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
Dreadnaught Theta that is
a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
ohms would melt.

Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter, midrange,
woofer), so is not
always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
music can make the
impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
math above would at least
tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
connect them.

The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on this
list that could expand
on this if you need more info.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog and
digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
their ability to carry information).

I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
as well?

My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front L/R,
surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need an
amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had outputs
for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the sound
elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround back
channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
which means they are both running mono, correct?

So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the two
major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?

What a mess!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD

Jason,

The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs and
DD +-400 kps compressed
formats.

Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and where
the decoding must take
place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
always be DTS and DD
backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
can not handle the
latest.



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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Maybe I'm over simplifying things but why would one want to run only one
pair of speaker cables to two speakers? One pair per speaker is the only
way I've ever done it in order to get both left and right channels.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Perry Yastrov" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Excuse my crude ascii drawing but to be in series, this is how the
> speakers would need to be wired.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Speaker 1 Speaker 2
> ________ ________
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | - + ---- |-------|-- - + |
> | | | | | |
> ----|------------ ----------|------
> | |
> To amp (neg) To amp (pos)
>
> Perry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jason Burroughs <[email protected]>
> To: HDTV Magazine <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:04:39 PM
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo,
>
> The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is
> set
> to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
> series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
> speaker, then from that speaker to the other.
>
> For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater
> store
> that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
> popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure,
> he
> said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
> shack and pick one up.
>
> Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
> (I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
> you put in parallel and
> apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by
> your
> receiver on that output
> speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".
>
> If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
> buy a small speaker
> switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance
> compensation
> so it does not drop as
> with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the
> front
> that when you press it
> it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).
>
> Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
> leg of speakers of low
> impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
> quality, like having long
> cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which
> affects
> the total impedance).
>
> Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
> that could cause sound
> problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
> as with a 2 ohm load in
> parallel.
>
> Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
> balance problem because
> when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
> affect this amp since the
> signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to
> operate
> two volumes in sync
> then.
>
> Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
> impedance loads down to at
> least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
> be controlled centrally
> by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
> from non 7.1 content.
>
> By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel
> would
> share the power, I meant
> in series, so remove that from the previous list.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a
> single
> title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
> 7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
> correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to
> run
> those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver
> with
> something capable of decoding the new formats.
>
> I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
> compatibility
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
> work and how backward
> compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you
> would
> need them; please wait
> until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail
> at
> the Tips I am taking
> off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.
>
> The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
> reactions on current
> owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.
>
> Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so
> read
> on:
>
> Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
> least three things:
>
> a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
> reduced to a number of
> ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently
> overheat
> and puff!.
>
> The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp
> is
> = (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
> SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result
> in
> a 2 ohm resultant for
> the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
> most budget receivers when
> driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
> so well designed and
> burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around
> the
> house with cheap speaker
> distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
> resistances for the drop of
> impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.
>
> Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
> would be (8x4)/(8+4)
> would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
> receivers are lately
> putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".
>
> b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.
>
> c) both play the same signal (mono).
>
> Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
> you would be doing the
> same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before
> cranking
> that knob.
>
> I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
> Dreadnaught Theta that is
> a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
> ohms would melt.
>
> Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter,
> midrange,
> woofer), so is not
> always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
> music can make the
> impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
> math above would at least
> tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
> connect them.
>
> The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on
> this
> list that could expand
> on this if you need more info.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
> theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
> say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
> bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
> connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog
> and
> digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
> their ability to carry information).
>
> I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
> since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
> as well?
>
> My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front
> L/R,
> surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
> correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
> for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need
> an
> amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had
> outputs
> for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
> 7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the
> sound
> elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround
> back
> channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
> speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
> which means they are both running mono, correct?
>
> So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the
> two
> major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
> audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?
>
> What a mess!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD
>
> Jason,
>
> The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs
> and
> DD +-400 kps compressed
> formats.
>
> Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and
> where
> the decoding must take
> place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
> always be DTS and DD
> backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
> can not handle the
> latest.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

If you maintained the speaker connections "between the speakers" as + to + and - to - you have
actually connected them in parallel. Series is when the amp sends + to the + of spA, the - of spA
bridges with the + of spB and the + of spB goes back to the amp -, that would create 16 ohms (the
addition of both impedances).

As you have it your receiver is seeing 4 ohms when it needs 8. The closer to zero you get the
closer to a short circuit connection on the amp output stage, because is less impedance it will draw
more current from the amp than the amp is capable to produce, if not protected it will shut down.

Many receivers are using the 8 ohm label cautiously but still being designed to tolerate lower
impedances with volume moderation.

Make sure the speaker selector is able to turn both speakers at the same time (not either or only)
and has impedance drop compensation.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 2:05 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is set
to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
speaker, then from that speaker to the other.

For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater store
that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure, he
said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
shack and pick one up.

Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
(I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
you put in parallel and
apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by your
receiver on that output
speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".

If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
buy a small speaker
switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance compensation
so it does not drop as
with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the front
that when you press it
it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).

Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
leg of speakers of low
impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
quality, like having long
cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which affects
the total impedance).

Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
that could cause sound
problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
as with a 2 ohm load in
parallel.

Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
balance problem because
when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
affect this amp since the
signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to operate
two volumes in sync
then.

Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
impedance loads down to at
least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
be controlled centrally
by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
from non 7.1 content.

By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel would
share the power, I meant
in series, so remove that from the previous list.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a single
title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to run
those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver with
something capable of decoding the new formats.

I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
compatibility

Thanks,

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
work and how backward
compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you would
need them; please wait
until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail at
the Tips I am taking
off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.

The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
reactions on current
owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.

Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so read
on:

Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
least three things:

a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
reduced to a number of
ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently overheat
and puff!.

The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp is
= (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result in
a 2 ohm resultant for
the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
most budget receivers when
driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
so well designed and
burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around the
house with cheap speaker
distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
resistances for the drop of
impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.

Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
would be (8x4)/(8+4)
would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
receivers are lately
putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".

b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.

c) both play the same signal (mono).

Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
you would be doing the
same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before cranking
that knob.

I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
Dreadnaught Theta that is
a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
ohms would melt.

Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter, midrange,
woofer), so is not
always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
music can make the
impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
math above would at least
tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
connect them.

The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on this
list that could expand
on this if you need more info.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog and
digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
their ability to carry information).

I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
as well?

My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front L/R,
surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need an
amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had outputs
for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the sound
elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround back
channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
which means they are both running mono, correct?

So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the two
major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?

What a mess!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD

Jason,

The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs and
DD +-400 kps compressed
formats.

Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and where
the decoding must take
place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
always be DTS and DD
backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
can not handle the
latest.



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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh, my receiver has a 6 channel amp, and I have 7 speakers. Since there is
only one amp for rear surround, and I have 2 rear surround speakers (I
thought 7.1 would eventually get here, but so far, it hasn't), I either need
to send the same mono signal to both speakers or unplug one.

>From everyone's comments (and drawings!) I do have them wired in parallel
and I need to correct it by buying the speaker selection.

Thanks guys!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:39 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Maybe I'm over simplifying things but why would one want to run only one
pair of speaker cables to two speakers? One pair per speaker is the only
way I've ever done it in order to get both left and right channels.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Perry Yastrov" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Excuse my crude ascii drawing but to be in series, this is how the
> speakers would need to be wired.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Speaker 1 Speaker 2
> ________ ________
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | - + ---- |-------|-- - + |
> | | | | | |
> ----|------------ ----------|------
> | |
> To amp (neg) To amp (pos)
>
> Perry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jason Burroughs <[email protected]>
> To: HDTV Magazine <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:04:39 PM
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo,
>
> The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is
> set
> to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
> series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
> speaker, then from that speaker to the other.
>
> For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater
> store
> that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
> popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure,
> he
> said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
> shack and pick one up.
>
> Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
> (I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
> you put in parallel and
> apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by
> your
> receiver on that output
> speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".
>
> If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
> buy a small speaker
> switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance
> compensation
> so it does not drop as
> with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the
> front
> that when you press it
> it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).
>
> Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
> leg of speakers of low
> impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
> quality, like having long
> cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which
> affects
> the total impedance).
>
> Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
> that could cause sound
> problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
> as with a 2 ohm load in
> parallel.
>
> Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
> balance problem because
> when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
> affect this amp since the
> signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to
> operate
> two volumes in sync
> then.
>
> Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
> impedance loads down to at
> least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
> be controlled centrally
> by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
> from non 7.1 content.
>
> By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel
> would
> share the power, I meant
> in series, so remove that from the previous list.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a
> single
> title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
> 7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
> correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to
> run
> those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver
> with
> something capable of decoding the new formats.
>
> I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
> compatibility
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
> work and how backward
> compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you
> would
> need them; please wait
> until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail
> at
> the Tips I am taking
> off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.
>
> The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
> reactions on current
> owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.
>
> Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so
> read
> on:
>
> Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
> least three things:
>
> a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
> reduced to a number of
> ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently
> overheat
> and puff!.
>
> The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp
> is
> = (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
> SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result
> in
> a 2 ohm resultant for
> the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
> most budget receivers when
> driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
> so well designed and
> burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around
> the
> house with cheap speaker
> distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
> resistances for the drop of
> impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.
>
> Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
> would be (8x4)/(8+4)
> would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
> receivers are lately
> putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".
>
> b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.
>
> c) both play the same signal (mono).
>
> Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
> you would be doing the
> same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before
> cranking
> that knob.
>
> I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
> Dreadnaught Theta that is
> a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
> ohms would melt.
>
> Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter,
> midrange,
> woofer), so is not
> always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
> music can make the
> impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
> math above would at least
> tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
> connect them.
>
> The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on
> this
> list that could expand
> on this if you need more info.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
> theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
> say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
> bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
> connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog
> and
> digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
> their ability to carry information).
>
> I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
> since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
> as well?
>
> My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front
> L/R,
> surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
> correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
> for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need
> an
> amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had
> outputs
> for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
> 7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the
> sound
> elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround
> back
> channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
> speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
> which means they are both running mono, correct?
>
> So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the
> two
> major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
> audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?
>
> What a mess!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD
>
> Jason,
>
> The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs
> and
> DD +-400 kps compressed
> formats.
>
> Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and
> where
> the decoding must take
> place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
> always be DTS and DD
> backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
> can not handle the
> latest.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same

> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same

> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh,

My understanding is that Jason is using this connection not for the rear surrounds but rather for
the back center channel (the 6 of the 6.1).

The dual speaker would spread a wider image of the back surround effect and blend better with rearLR
or sideLR channels, which by the way is exactly what I am doing.

Having a true 7.1 system with dual center back speakers would produce a better image with both
speakers reproducing a slightly different signal and amplified by the central amp for each of them
individually, but in the lack of such 7.1 system one can create a decent effect with 6.1 a dual
center backs.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:39 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Maybe I'm over simplifying things but why would one want to run only one
pair of speaker cables to two speakers? One pair per speaker is the only
way I've ever done it in order to get both left and right channels.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Perry Yastrov" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Excuse my crude ascii drawing but to be in series, this is how the
> speakers would need to be wired.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Speaker 1 Speaker 2
> ________ ________
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | - + ---- |-------|-- - + |
> | | | | | |
> ----|------------ ----------|------
> | |
> To amp (neg) To amp (pos)
>
> Perry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jason Burroughs <[email protected]>
> To: HDTV Magazine <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:04:39 PM
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo,
>
> The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is
> set
> to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
> series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
> speaker, then from that speaker to the other.
>
> For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater
> store
> that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
> popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure,
> he
> said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
> shack and pick one up.
>
> Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
> (I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
> you put in parallel and
> apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by
> your
> receiver on that output
> speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".
>
> If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
> buy a small speaker
> switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance
> compensation
> so it does not drop as
> with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the
> front
> that when you press it
> it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).
>
> Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
> leg of speakers of low
> impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
> quality, like having long
> cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which
> affects
> the total impedance).
>
> Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
> that could cause sound
> problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
> as with a 2 ohm load in
> parallel.
>
> Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
> balance problem because
> when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
> affect this amp since the
> signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to
> operate
> two volumes in sync
> then.
>
> Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
> impedance loads down to at
> least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
> be controlled centrally
> by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
> from non 7.1 content.
>
> By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel
> would
> share the power, I meant
> in series, so remove that from the previous list.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a
> single
> title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
> 7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
> correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to
> run
> those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver
> with
> something capable of decoding the new formats.
>
> I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
> compatibility
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
> work and how backward
> compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you
> would
> need them; please wait
> until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail
> at
> the Tips I am taking
> off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.
>
> The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
> reactions on current
> owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.
>
> Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so
> read
> on:
>
> Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
> least three things:
>
> a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
> reduced to a number of
> ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently
> overheat
> and puff!.
>
> The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp
> is
> = (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
> SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result
> in
> a 2 ohm resultant for
> the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
> most budget receivers when
> driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
> so well designed and
> burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around
> the
> house with cheap speaker
> distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
> resistances for the drop of
> impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.
>
> Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
> would be (8x4)/(8+4)
> would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
> receivers are lately
> putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".
>
> b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.
>
> c) both play the same signal (mono).
>
> Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
> you would be doing the
> same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before
> cranking
> that knob.
>
> I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
> Dreadnaught Theta that is
> a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
> ohms would melt.
>
> Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter,
> midrange,
> woofer), so is not
> always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
> music can make the
> impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
> math above would at least
> tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
> connect them.
>
> The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on
> this
> list that could expand
> on this if you need more info.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
> theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
> say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
> bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
> connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog
> and
> digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
> their ability to carry information).
>
> I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
> since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
> as well?
>
> My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front
> L/R,
> surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
> correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
> for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need
> an
> amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had
> outputs
> for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
> 7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the
> sound
> elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround
> back
> channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
> speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
> which means they are both running mono, correct?
>
> So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the
> two
> major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
> audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?
>
> What a mess!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD
>
> Jason,
>
> The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs
> and
> DD +-400 kps compressed
> formats.
>
> Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and
> where
> the decoding must take
> place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
> always be DTS and DD
> backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
> can not handle the
> latest.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I believe you meant "back" surround, not "rear", if not we have to start from square one.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:46 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh, my receiver has a 6 channel amp, and I have 7 speakers. Since there is
only one amp for rear surround, and I have 2 rear surround speakers (I
thought 7.1 would eventually get here, but so far, it hasn't), I either need
to send the same mono signal to both speakers or unplug one.

>From everyone's comments (and drawings!) I do have them wired in parallel
and I need to correct it by buying the speaker selection.

Thanks guys!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:39 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Maybe I'm over simplifying things but why would one want to run only one
pair of speaker cables to two speakers? One pair per speaker is the only
way I've ever done it in order to get both left and right channels.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Perry Yastrov" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Excuse my crude ascii drawing but to be in series, this is how the
> speakers would need to be wired.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Speaker 1 Speaker 2
> ________ ________
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | - + ---- |-------|-- - + |
> | | | | | |
> ----|------------ ----------|------
> | |
> To amp (neg) To amp (pos)
>
> Perry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jason Burroughs <[email protected]>
> To: HDTV Magazine <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:04:39 PM
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo,
>
> The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is
> set
> to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
> series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
> speaker, then from that speaker to the other.
>
> For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater
> store
> that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
> popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure,
> he
> said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
> shack and pick one up.
>
> Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
> (I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
> you put in parallel and
> apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by
> your
> receiver on that output
> speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".
>
> If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
> buy a small speaker
> switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance
> compensation
> so it does not drop as
> with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the
> front
> that when you press it
> it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).
>
> Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
> leg of speakers of low
> impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
> quality, like having long
> cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which
> affects
> the total impedance).
>
> Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
> that could cause sound
> problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
> as with a 2 ohm load in
> parallel.
>
> Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
> balance problem because
> when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
> affect this amp since the
> signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to
> operate
> two volumes in sync
> then.
>
> Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
> impedance loads down to at
> least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
> be controlled centrally
> by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
> from non 7.1 content.
>
> By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel
> would
> share the power, I meant
> in series, so remove that from the previous list.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a
> single
> title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
> 7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
> correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to
> run
> those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver
> with
> something capable of decoding the new formats.
>
> I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
> compatibility
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
> work and how backward
> compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you
> would
> need them; please wait
> until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail
> at
> the Tips I am taking
> off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.
>
> The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
> reactions on current
> owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.
>
> Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so
> read
> on:
>
> Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
> least three things:
>
> a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
> reduced to a number of
> ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently
> overheat
> and puff!.
>
> The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp
> is
> = (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
> SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result
> in
> a 2 ohm resultant for
> the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
> most budget receivers when
> driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
> so well designed and
> burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around
> the
> house with cheap speaker
> distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
> resistances for the drop of
> impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.
>
> Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
> would be (8x4)/(8+4)
> would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
> receivers are lately
> putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".
>
> b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.
>
> c) both play the same signal (mono).
>
> Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
> you would be doing the
> same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before
> cranking
> that knob.
>
> I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
> Dreadnaught Theta that is
> a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
> ohms would melt.
>
> Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter,
> midrange,
> woofer), so is not
> always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
> music can make the
> impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
> math above would at least
> tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
> connect them.
>
> The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on
> this
> list that could expand
> on this if you need more info.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
> theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
> say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
> bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
> connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog
> and
> digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
> their ability to carry information).
>
> I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
> since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
> as well?
>
> My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front
> L/R,
> surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
> correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
> for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need
> an
> amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had
> outputs
> for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
> 7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the
> sound
> elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround
> back
> channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
> speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
> which means they are both running mono, correct?
>
> So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the
> two
> major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
> audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?
>
> What a mess!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD
>
> Jason,
>
> The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs
> and
> DD +-400 kps compressed
> formats.
>
> Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and
> where
> the decoding must take
> place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
> always be DTS and DD
> backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
> can not handle the
> latest.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same

> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same

> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I've heard 'rear surround' and 'back surround' used interchangeably.
Surround Left and Surround Right are on the sides
"Rear Surround" Left and Right are mounted about 5 feet behind and 7 feet in
the air pointed at the couch.

http://www.videologic.com/Images/gif/co ... iagram.gif

the 6.1 is the best approximation of what I'm doing.



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:51 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I believe you meant "back" surround, not "rear", if not we have to start
from square one.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:46 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh, my receiver has a 6 channel amp, and I have 7 speakers. Since there is
only one amp for rear surround, and I have 2 rear surround speakers (I
thought 7.1 would eventually get here, but so far, it hasn't), I either need
to send the same mono signal to both speakers or unplug one.

>From everyone's comments (and drawings!) I do have them wired in parallel
and I need to correct it by buying the speaker selection.

Thanks guys!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:39 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Maybe I'm over simplifying things but why would one want to run only one
pair of speaker cables to two speakers? One pair per speaker is the only
way I've ever done it in order to get both left and right channels.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Perry Yastrov" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Excuse my crude ascii drawing but to be in series, this is how the
> speakers would need to be wired.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Speaker 1 Speaker 2
> ________ ________
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | - + ---- |-------|-- - + |
> | | | | | |
> ----|------------ ----------|------
> | |
> To amp (neg) To amp (pos)
>
> Perry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jason Burroughs <[email protected]>
> To: HDTV Magazine <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:04:39 PM
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo,
>
> The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is
> set
> to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
> series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
> speaker, then from that speaker to the other.
>
> For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater
> store
> that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
> popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure,
> he
> said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
> shack and pick one up.
>
> Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
> (I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
> you put in parallel and
> apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by
> your
> receiver on that output
> speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".
>
> If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
> buy a small speaker
> switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance
> compensation
> so it does not drop as
> with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the
> front
> that when you press it
> it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).
>
> Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
> leg of speakers of low
> impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
> quality, like having long
> cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which
> affects
> the total impedance).
>
> Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
> that could cause sound
> problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
> as with a 2 ohm load in
> parallel.
>
> Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
> balance problem because
> when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
> affect this amp since the
> signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to
> operate
> two volumes in sync
> then.
>
> Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
> impedance loads down to at
> least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
> be controlled centrally
> by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
> from non 7.1 content.
>
> By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel
> would
> share the power, I meant
> in series, so remove that from the previous list.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a
> single
> title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
> 7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
> correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to
> run
> those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver
> with
> something capable of decoding the new formats.
>
> I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
> compatibility
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
> work and how backward
> compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you
> would
> need them; please wait
> until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail
> at
> the Tips I am taking
> off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.
>
> The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
> reactions on current
> owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.
>
> Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so
> read
> on:
>
> Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
> least three things:
>
> a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
> reduced to a number of
> ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently
> overheat
> and puff!.
>
> The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp
> is
> = (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
> SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result
> in
> a 2 ohm resultant for
> the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
> most budget receivers when
> driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
> so well designed and
> burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around
> the
> house with cheap speaker
> distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
> resistances for the drop of
> impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.
>
> Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
> would be (8x4)/(8+4)
> would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
> receivers are lately
> putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".
>
> b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.
>
> c) both play the same signal (mono).
>
> Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
> you would be doing the
> same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before
> cranking
> that knob.
>
> I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
> Dreadnaught Theta that is
> a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
> ohms would melt.
>
> Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter,
> midrange,
> woofer), so is not
> always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
> music can make the
> impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
> math above would at least
> tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
> connect them.
>
> The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on
> this
> list that could expand
> on this if you need more info.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
> theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
> say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
> bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
> connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog
> and
> digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
> their ability to carry information).
>
> I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
> since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
> as well?
>
> My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front
> L/R,
> surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
> correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
> for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need
> an
> amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had
> outputs
> for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
> 7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the
> sound
> elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround
> back
> channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
> speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
> which means they are both running mono, correct?
>
> So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the
> two
> major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
> audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?
>
> What a mess!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD
>
> Jason,
>
> The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs
> and
> DD +-400 kps compressed
> formats.
>
> Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and
> where
> the decoding must take
> place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
> always be DTS and DD
> backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
> can not handle the
> latest.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same

> day) send an email to:
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>
>
>
>
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>
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> day) send an email to:
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I must not have received the beginning of this thread, what new versions of
DTS and DD are you talking about?

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:36 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

If you maintained the speaker connections "between the speakers" as + to +
and - to - you have
actually connected them in parallel. Series is when the amp sends + to the
+ of spA, the - of spA
bridges with the + of spB and the + of spB goes back to the amp -, that
would create 16 ohms (the
addition of both impedances).

As you have it your receiver is seeing 4 ohms when it needs 8. The closer
to zero you get the
closer to a short circuit connection on the amp output stage, because is
less impedance it will draw
more current from the amp than the amp is capable to produce, if not
protected it will shut down.

Many receivers are using the 8 ohm label cautiously but still being designed
to tolerate lower
impedances with volume moderation.

Make sure the speaker selector is able to turn both speakers at the same
time (not either or only)
and has impedance drop compensation.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 2:05 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is set
to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
speaker, then from that speaker to the other.

For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater store
that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure, he
said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
shack and pick one up.

Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
(I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
you put in parallel and
apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by your
receiver on that output
speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".

If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
buy a small speaker
switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance compensation
so it does not drop as
with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the front
that when you press it
it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).

Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
leg of speakers of low
impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
quality, like having long
cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which affects
the total impedance).

Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
that could cause sound
problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
as with a 2 ohm load in
parallel.

Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
balance problem because
when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
affect this amp since the
signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to operate
two volumes in sync
then.

Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
impedance loads down to at
least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
be controlled centrally
by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
from non 7.1 content.

By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel would
share the power, I meant
in series, so remove that from the previous list.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a single
title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to run
those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver with
something capable of decoding the new formats.

I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
compatibility

Thanks,

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
work and how backward
compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you would
need them; please wait
until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail at
the Tips I am taking
off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.

The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
reactions on current
owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.

Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so read
on:

Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
least three things:

a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
reduced to a number of
ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently overheat
and puff!.

The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp is
= (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result in
a 2 ohm resultant for
the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
most budget receivers when
driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
so well designed and
burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around the
house with cheap speaker
distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
resistances for the drop of
impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.

Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
would be (8x4)/(8+4)
would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
receivers are lately
putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".

b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.

c) both play the same signal (mono).

Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
you would be doing the
same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before cranking
that knob.

I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
Dreadnaught Theta that is
a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
ohms would melt.

Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter, midrange,
woofer), so is not
always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
music can make the
impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
math above would at least
tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
connect them.

The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on this
list that could expand
on this if you need more info.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog and
digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
their ability to carry information).

I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
as well?

My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front L/R,
surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need an
amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had outputs
for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the sound
elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround back
channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
which means they are both running mono, correct?

So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the two
major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?

What a mess!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD

Jason,

The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs and
DD +-400 kps compressed
formats.

Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and where
the decoding must take
place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
always be DTS and DD
backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
can not handle the
latest.



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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

The BL and BR on the diagram you supplied mean Back.

The SL and SR on the diagram are the typical rear surround speakers before 6.1 was invented, which
in some systems can be side surrounds, and in some pre/pros like Theta could also be all together,
rear pair and side pair combined (4 speakers), in addition to the dual backs (6 in total).

There is even another surround format with ceiling speakers, which I have but disconnected it when
they did not produce more movies with that ceiling encoding, although one can still reproduce such
height imaging by merging the center front and back channels and decode the common signal with a
basic prologic steering circuitry.

Your case is the "back" surround set that is "just behind" the viewer, not on the corners.

You should also try transducers on the floor to complement the subs with low frequencies, you will
not be disappointed.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:04 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I've heard 'rear surround' and 'back surround' used interchangeably.
Surround Left and Surround Right are on the sides
"Rear Surround" Left and Right are mounted about 5 feet behind and 7 feet in
the air pointed at the couch.

http://www.videologic.com/Images/gif/co ... iagram.gif

the 6.1 is the best approximation of what I'm doing.



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:51 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I believe you meant "back" surround, not "rear", if not we have to start
from square one.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:46 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh, my receiver has a 6 channel amp, and I have 7 speakers. Since there is
only one amp for rear surround, and I have 2 rear surround speakers (I
thought 7.1 would eventually get here, but so far, it hasn't), I either need
to send the same mono signal to both speakers or unplug one.

>From everyone's comments (and drawings!) I do have them wired in parallel
and I need to correct it by buying the speaker selection.

Thanks guys!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:39 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Maybe I'm over simplifying things but why would one want to run only one
pair of speaker cables to two speakers? One pair per speaker is the only
way I've ever done it in order to get both left and right channels.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Perry Yastrov" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Excuse my crude ascii drawing but to be in series, this is how the
> speakers would need to be wired.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Speaker 1 Speaker 2
> ________ ________
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | - + ---- |-------|-- - + |
> | | | | | |
> ----|------------ ----------|------
> | |
> To amp (neg) To amp (pos)
>
> Perry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jason Burroughs <[email protected]>
> To: HDTV Magazine <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:04:39 PM
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo,
>
> The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is
> set
> to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
> series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
> speaker, then from that speaker to the other.
>
> For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater
> store
> that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
> popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure,
> he
> said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
> shack and pick one up.
>
> Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
> (I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
> you put in parallel and
> apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by
> your
> receiver on that output
> speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".
>
> If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
> buy a small speaker
> switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance
> compensation
> so it does not drop as
> with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the
> front
> that when you press it
> it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).
>
> Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
> leg of speakers of low
> impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
> quality, like having long
> cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which
> affects
> the total impedance).
>
> Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
> that could cause sound
> problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
> as with a 2 ohm load in
> parallel.
>
> Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
> balance problem because
> when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
> affect this amp since the
> signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to
> operate
> two volumes in sync
> then.
>
> Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
> impedance loads down to at
> least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
> be controlled centrally
> by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
> from non 7.1 content.
>
> By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel
> would
> share the power, I meant
> in series, so remove that from the previous list.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a
> single
> title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
> 7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
> correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to
> run
> those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver
> with
> something capable of decoding the new formats.
>
> I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
> compatibility
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
> work and how backward
> compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you
> would
> need them; please wait
> until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail
> at
> the Tips I am taking
> off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.
>
> The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
> reactions on current
> owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.
>
> Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so
> read
> on:
>
> Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
> least three things:
>
> a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
> reduced to a number of
> ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently
> overheat
> and puff!.
>
> The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp
> is
> = (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
> SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result
> in
> a 2 ohm resultant for
> the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
> most budget receivers when
> driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
> so well designed and
> burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around
> the
> house with cheap speaker
> distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
> resistances for the drop of
> impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.
>
> Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
> would be (8x4)/(8+4)
> would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
> receivers are lately
> putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".
>
> b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.
>
> c) both play the same signal (mono).
>
> Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
> you would be doing the
> same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before
> cranking
> that knob.
>
> I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
> Dreadnaught Theta that is
> a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
> ohms would melt.
>
> Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter,
> midrange,
> woofer), so is not
> always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
> music can make the
> impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
> math above would at least
> tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
> connect them.
>
> The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on
> this
> list that could expand
> on this if you need more info.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Jason Burroughs
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
> theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
> say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
> bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
> connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog
> and
> digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
> their ability to carry information).
>
> I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
> since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
> as well?
>
> My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front
> L/R,
> surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
> correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
> for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need
> an
> amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had
> outputs
> for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
> 7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the
> sound
> elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround
> back
> channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
> speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
> which means they are both running mono, correct?
>
> So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the
> two
> major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
> audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?
>
> What a mess!
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD
>
> Jason,
>
> The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs
> and
> DD +-400 kps compressed
> formats.
>
> Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and
> where
> the decoding must take
> place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
> always be DTS and DD
> backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
> can not handle the
> latest.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
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>
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> day) send an email to:
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>
>
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>
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> day) send an email to:
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>
>
>
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> day) send an email to:
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> day) send an email to:
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> day) send an email to:
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Anthony,

The hi-bit lossless DD and DTS versions introduced a few months ago to be implemented for Hi Def
DVD.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Anthony Rizzuto
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:23 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I must not have received the beginning of this thread, what new versions of
DTS and DD are you talking about?

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:36 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

If you maintained the speaker connections "between the speakers" as + to +
and - to - you have
actually connected them in parallel. Series is when the amp sends + to the
+ of spA, the - of spA
bridges with the + of spB and the + of spB goes back to the amp -, that
would create 16 ohms (the
addition of both impedances).

As you have it your receiver is seeing 4 ohms when it needs 8. The closer
to zero you get the
closer to a short circuit connection on the amp output stage, because is
less impedance it will draw
more current from the amp than the amp is capable to produce, if not
protected it will shut down.

Many receivers are using the 8 ohm label cautiously but still being designed
to tolerate lower
impedances with volume moderation.

Make sure the speaker selector is able to turn both speakers at the same
time (not either or only)
and has impedance drop compensation.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 2:05 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

The Paradigm Titan v3 rear surrounds I'm using are 8 ohm. My receiver is set
to 8 ohm. I did make a mistake - I'm not wiring them in parallel, but in
series - as in, I have one pair of cables going from the receiver to one
speaker, then from that speaker to the other.

For now, I've unhooked one to be safe. I just called the home theater store
that sold me everything, and they said as long as the receiver is not
popping off into safety mode, it shouldn't be a problem. But to be sure, he
said to get a speaker selector as you did. So, I'll probably head to radio
shack and pick one up.

Thanks for the advice, and sorry to everyone else if this is way off topic
(I wanted to finish it on the list in case anyone else was interested)!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Before adding any more pieces, please verify the impedance of the speakers
you put in parallel and
apply the formula I gave you; then verify the impedance recommended by your
receiver on that output
speaker "when all speakers are operating at the same time".

If the load is too low in impedance for your receiver, one way could be to
buy a small speaker
switcher box with one inputs and two outputs that has impedance compensation
so it does not drop as
with the splicing you did (it could have some kind of a button on the front
that when you press it
it activates a resistor in series within the circuitry).

Some people physically insert a resistor in series to build up ohms on the
leg of speakers of low
impedance, but that is a cheap way to do it, and it affects the sound
quality, like having long
cables does (because the longer run increases the resistance, which affects
the total impedance).

Another way is put them is series so the impedances add up (8+8=16), but
that could cause sound
problems when the amp reacts to such load, but it would not suffer as much
as with a 2 ohm load in
parallel.

Another is with a separate small amp for both speakers but that creates a
balance problem because
when you calibrate/change the master volume of the receiver it would not
affect this amp since the
signal is taken from a pre out of your main receiver, so you have to operate
two volumes in sync
then.

Probably the best way is to upgrade to 7.1 amp/receiver that can handle
impedance loads down to at
least 4 ohms with all speakers operating, the dual back centers would then
be controlled centrally
by the only volume control, and adjust the menus so both center backs play
from non 7.1 content.

By the way, I believe I said before than the two speakers in parallel would
share the power, I meant
in series, so remove that from the previous list.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:23 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Wow, that's good to know - I had no idea. Since today, there is not a single
title or format that can use the surround rear as discrete channels (true
7.1), is there a simple and cheap way (adding a resistor or something) to
correct what I'm doing? I suppose I could pony up for a 2 channel amp to run
those two, but I think I'd rather wait until I can replace my receiver with
something capable of decoding the new formats.

I'm happy to wait for your more detailed article about the formats and
compatibility

Thanks,

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

I am writing a separate section to explain exactly how those two formats
work and how backward
compatibility would be implemented, but keep those analog inputs, you would
need them; please wait
until I can release the article; sorry, the time it takes to write detail at
the Tips I am taking
off from the articles/CES report, so I have to be brief.

The bass management problem you mentioned has created a number of negative
reactions on current
owners but "it is said" to be solved with new formats.

Before is too late for your receiver you need to know something now, so read
on:

Any time you are splicing together speakers in parallel you are doing at
least three things:

a) the most damaging first, the resultant impedance that the amp faces is
reduced to a number of
ohms that the amp might not feel comfortable with and consequently overheat
and puff!.

The formula for the resultant impedance measured in ohms seen by the amp is
= (SP1 X SP2) / (SP1 +
SP2) impedances), for example two 4 ohm speakers in parallel would result in
a 2 ohm resultant for
the amp, or (4x4) / (4+4) = 2, a resultant impedance that is two low for
most budget receivers when
driven strong, some will shut down with thermal fuses, others might not be
so well designed and
burn. This is the problem many people face when spreading music around the
house with cheap speaker
distribution boxes (or none at all) that do not compensate with series
resistances for the drop of
impedance that happens when enough of them are playing together.

Use the same formula with speakers with different impedances (8 and 4 ohms
would be (8x4)/(8+4)
would result on 2.66 seeing by the amp, still quite low). Note that many
receivers are lately
putting labels of "use only 8 ohm speakers".

b) both speakers would share the total power sent to them.

c) both play the same signal (mono).

Back center surround speakers are not usually driven high in volume but if
you would be doing the
same with dual front centers make sure you check the numbers before cranking
that knob.

I have dual center fronts and dual center back surrounds but the amp is a
Dreadnaught Theta that is
a monster, a small receiver that loves to be treated with no less than 8
ohms would melt.

Also note that impedance also varies with the frequency (tweeter, midrange,
woofer), so is not
always the exact resultant of 8 ohms, 4 , 2.66, etc., certain passages of
music can make the
impedance go even lower and the amp suffers more on those, but the basic
math above would at least
tell you if the impedance is low enough already to rethink the way you
connect them.

The above is just the basics, I am sure they are several audiophiles on this
list that could expand
on this if you need more info.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Jason Burroughs
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:45 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: more questions about DD and DTS vs their successors.


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I don't know enough about audio to understand this...Is it even
theoretically possible that a 6.1 analog format *could* sound better than,
say, DTS 6.1 Discrete? In other words, I would think that the digital
bandwidth over SPDIF or toslink would be higher than those 6 analog
connections. I don't think I understand the relationship between analog and
digital when it comes to bandwidth (or whatever measurement you make of
their ability to carry information).

I bought a DVD-Audio player and was extremely disappointed in the quality,
since there was no bass management. Should I worry about these new formats
as well?

My receiver (sony STR-DA5ES) has 6.1 channel inputs, but 8 ports (front L/R,
surround L/R, surround back L/R, center, and subwoofer), am I reading it
correctly to mean that the 6 channels are: 2 for front, 2 for surround, 1
for rear surround, and 1 for center? I would assume that sub doesn't need an
amp channel, and the sony ES line from my receiver's generation had outputs
for 7.1, but only a 6 channel amp. So they tell you if you want to hook up
7.1, you either steal the center channel's amp (and it matrixes in the sound
elsewhere), or buy a 2 channel amp and use the pre-out on the surround back
channels. Currently, I have the speaker wire from both rear surround
speakers spliced together to go into the same rear surround connection -
which means they are both running mono, correct?

So they are introducing two major audio formats at the same time as the two
major video formats, and there are no receivers today to decode the new
audio formats (just like SACD and DVD-A at launch)...?

What a mess!

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:11 PM
To: HDTV Magazine; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Response to Anthony RE: 1080p in Hi Def DVD

Jason,

The new higher bit formats are supposed to sound better than DTS 1.5 mbs and
DD +-400 kps compressed
formats.

Your ears would tell, if you look at the requirements of decoding and where
the decoding must take
place the situation can get a bit more complicated, although there will
always be DTS and DD
backward compatibility by sending the current stream to the equipment that
can not handle the
latest.



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