Motion Artifacts

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----


Fixed pixel displays usually experience this due to conversion from source
to native resolutions, yes? Do you know what the particular case was when
you were viewing the "new models"?

-- M. Shane Sturgeon



|---------+--------------------------------->
| | "Hugh Campbell" |
| | <[email protected]|
| | r.com> |
| | Sent by: "HDTV |
| | Magazine" |
| | <hdtvmagazine_tips@ilo|
| | vehdtv.com> |
| | |
| | |
| | 02/06/2006 11:05 AM |
| | Please respond to |
| | "HDTV Magazine" |
|---------+--------------------------------->
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| |
| To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]> |
| cc: |
| Subject: Motion Artifacts |
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

This has probably been addressed before but after spending some time
viewing
the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more motion artifacts than I
do
with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why. This applies to broadcasts in 720p

as well as 1080i.

Hugh


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

One factor may be all the "enhancements" that manufacturers are
foisting on us. The DNiE on Samsung's, etc. add all kinds of garbage
to the picture (and they decided that there shouldn't be an option to
turn it off on the HL-R models). Digital Noise Reduction can also
add motion related artifacts.

So, unless you can be sure that you are viewing a set that has had
those "features" turned off you never know what kind of processing
might be going on.

Most displays do have options to turn off that kind of processing
(even on those Samsung's it can be done in the service mode) and can
look excellent once that is done.

Another factor may be how many "bits" they use for their digital
processing. Many DLP/Plasma models have < 10 which can lead to
banding and dithering effects that you may be seeing.



On Feb 6, 2006, at 10:05 AM, Hugh Campbell wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> This has probably been addressed before but after spending some
> time viewing the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more
> motion artifacts than I do with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why.
> This applies to broadcasts in 720p as well as 1080i.
>
> Hugh
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]

--

Steve Martin
Personal: [email protected]
Business: [email protected]
Smart Calibration, LLC
http://www.smartcalibration.com/




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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I have consistently seen this on native resolutions of 1080p, 1080i and 720p
with source material coming from ABC at 720p and CBS at 1080i. Have seen
it while viewing the new SXRD's, Toshiba 1080p, Samsung 1080p, etc. It
took repeated viewing as the picture looks so vibrant but when viewing
basketball or football games it is very noticeable.

Hugh



----- Original Message -----
From: "M. Shane Sturgeon" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>
> Fixed pixel displays usually experience this due to conversion from source
> to native resolutions, yes? Do you know what the particular case was when
> you were viewing the "new models"?
>
> -- M. Shane Sturgeon
>
>
>
> |---------+--------------------------------->
> | | "Hugh Campbell" |
> | | <[email protected]|
> | | r.com> |
> | | Sent by: "HDTV |
> | | Magazine" |
> | | <hdtvmagazine_tips@ilo|
> | | vehdtv.com> |
> | | |
> | | |
> | | 02/06/2006 11:05 AM |
> | | Please respond to |
> | | "HDTV Magazine" |
> |---------+--------------------------------->
>
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> |
> |
> | To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> |
> | cc:
> |
> | Subject: Motion Artifacts
> |
>
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> This has probably been addressed before but after spending some time
> viewing
> the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more motion artifacts than I
> do
> with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why. This applies to broadcasts in
> 720p
>
> as well as 1080i.
>
> Hugh
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Keep in mind that the decoder can also be a decisive factor and its artifact
output not a direct fault of the display itself. This is why an "instrument
grade" knowledge of the source that goes to the display in question is so
crucially important when making a judgment call. During the testing phase
for the ATSC standard absolutely everything on the input side was known to
the technical operators and consistently maintained with instrument
monitored-precision for each display and decoder that was evaluated. Without
that there would have been no subjective assessment of any value generated
by those 100s of expert viewer observations.

Dale

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I have consistently seen this on native resolutions of 1080p, 1080i and 720p

with source material coming from ABC at 720p and CBS at 1080i. Have seen
it while viewing the new SXRD's, Toshiba 1080p, Samsung 1080p, etc. It
took repeated viewing as the picture looks so vibrant but when viewing
basketball or football games it is very noticeable.

Hugh



----- Original Message -----
From: "M. Shane Sturgeon" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>
> Fixed pixel displays usually experience this due to conversion from source
> to native resolutions, yes? Do you know what the particular case was when
> you were viewing the "new models"?
>
> -- M. Shane Sturgeon
>
>
>
> |---------+--------------------------------->
> | | "Hugh Campbell" |
> | | <[email protected]|
> | | r.com> |
> | | Sent by: "HDTV |
> | | Magazine" |
> | | <hdtvmagazine_tips@ilo|
> | | vehdtv.com> |
> | | |
> | | |
> | | 02/06/2006 11:05 AM |
> | | Please respond to |
> | | "HDTV Magazine" |
> |---------+--------------------------------->
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
> |
> |
> | To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> |
> | cc:
> |
> | Subject: Motion Artifacts
> |
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> This has probably been addressed before but after spending some time
> viewing
> the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more motion artifacts than I
> do
> with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why. This applies to broadcasts in
> 720p
>
> as well as 1080i.
>
> Hugh
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same

> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh,

I think Steve's comment nails the majority of what you're probably seeing.

But I'd also suggest that you should be reasonably skeptical of what you see
in big stores using video distribution systems. There are so many things
that can go wrong with these systems that they may be the biggest wild card
of all in trying to assess the relative picture quality of different brands
or models.

In my experience, these systems can vary wildly from one delivery point to
another. I've learned this the hard way, as there have been several
occasions where I calibrated a set on a retail floor with a signal generator
and got it looking great, and then when I returned it to the distribution
system source, it looked awful. The first time I came across this, it took
me more than an hour to figure out what was happening -- only after I rolled
the set over to a different point, did I get the sort of images I was
expecting.

I suspect that there's a lot of amplification in the chain between the
original source and the delivery point, and a lot of times those boosters
are simply amplifying signals that have already been impaired to the point
where boosting the signal is only going to magnify the problems.

Regards,


Doug
Clearly Resolved Image & Sound

Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993

eMail: [email protected]
Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com

Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
http://www.imagingscience.com

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:31
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I have consistently seen this on native resolutions of 1080p, 1080i and 720p

with source material coming from ABC at 720p and CBS at 1080i. Have seen
it while viewing the new SXRD's, Toshiba 1080p, Samsung 1080p, etc. It
took repeated viewing as the picture looks so vibrant but when viewing
basketball or football games it is very noticeable.

Hugh



----- Original Message -----
From: "M. Shane Sturgeon" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>
> Fixed pixel displays usually experience this due to conversion from source
> to native resolutions, yes? Do you know what the particular case was when
> you were viewing the "new models"?
>
> -- M. Shane Sturgeon
>
>
>
> |---------+--------------------------------->
> | | "Hugh Campbell" |
> | | <[email protected]|
> | | r.com> |
> | | Sent by: "HDTV |
> | | Magazine" |
> | | <hdtvmagazine_tips@ilo|
> | | vehdtv.com> |
> | | |
> | | |
> | | 02/06/2006 11:05 AM |
> | | Please respond to |
> | | "HDTV Magazine" |
> |---------+--------------------------------->
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
> |
> |
> | To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> |
> | cc:
> |
> | Subject: Motion Artifacts
> |
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> This has probably been addressed before but after spending some time
> viewing
> the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more motion artifacts than I
> do
> with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why. This applies to broadcasts in
> 720p
>
> as well as 1080i.
>
> Hugh
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same

> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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day) send an email to:
[email protected]


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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I stand behind both Steve and Doug.

Beyond the manufacturers setup to lure your purchase you are also
dealing with store issues. My Samsung HLP5063 had all the artifacts
described until it was calibrated.

You can't really evaluate much in a store although so many think
otherwise. It is wishful thinking!

This just came up with a guy comparing a 6 month old Sony SXRD to a new
Toshiba next to it. Said the Sony looked dimmer. Could 6 months of daily
use reducing light output from the Sony lamp be the cause?



Thanks

Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation

Doug Weil wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hugh,
>
> I think Steve's comment nails the majority of what you're probably seeing.
>
> But I'd also suggest that you should be reasonably skeptical of what you see
> in big stores using video distribution systems. There are so many things
> that can go wrong with these systems that they may be the biggest wild card
> of all in trying to assess the relative picture quality of different brands
> or models.
>
> In my experience, these systems can vary wildly from one delivery point to
> another. I've learned this the hard way, as there have been several
> occasions where I calibrated a set on a retail floor with a signal generator
> and got it looking great, and then when I returned it to the distribution
> system source, it looked awful. The first time I came across this, it took
> me more than an hour to figure out what was happening -- only after I rolled
> the set over to a different point, did I get the sort of images I was
> expecting.
>
> I suspect that there's a lot of amplification in the chain between the
> original source and the delivery point, and a lot of times those boosters
> are simply amplifying signals that have already been impaired to the point
> where boosting the signal is only going to magnify the problems.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Doug
> Clearly Resolved Image & Sound
>
> Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
> Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993
>
> eMail: [email protected]
> Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com
>
> Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
> http://www.imagingscience.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Hugh Campbell
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:31
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I have consistently seen this on native resolutions of 1080p, 1080i and 720p
>
> with source material coming from ABC at 720p and CBS at 1080i. Have seen
> it while viewing the new SXRD's, Toshiba 1080p, Samsung 1080p, etc. It
> took repeated viewing as the picture looks so vibrant but when viewing
> basketball or football games it is very noticeable.
>
> Hugh
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "M. Shane Sturgeon" <[email protected]>
> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts
>
>
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>
>>Fixed pixel displays usually experience this due to conversion from source
>>to native resolutions, yes? Do you know what the particular case was when
>>you were viewing the "new models"?
>>
>>-- M. Shane Sturgeon
>>
>>
>>
>>|---------+--------------------------------->
>>| | "Hugh Campbell" |
>>| | <[email protected]|
>>| | r.com> |
>>| | Sent by: "HDTV |
>>| | Magazine" |
>>| | <hdtvmagazine_tips@ilo|
>>| | vehdtv.com> |
>>| | |
>>| | |
>>| | 02/06/2006 11:05 AM |
>>| | Please respond to |
>>| | "HDTV Magazine" |
>>|---------+--------------------------------->
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>> |
>>|
>> | To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>>|
>> | cc:
>>|
>> | Subject: Motion Artifacts
>>|
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>>
>>
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>This has probably been addressed before but after spending some time
>>viewing
>>the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more motion artifacts than I
>>do
>>with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why. This applies to broadcasts in
>>720p
>>
>>as well as 1080i.
>>
>>Hugh
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>
>
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

And any number of menu adjustments could make one display brighter or
dimmer than the other.

Contrast/Picture
Iris (on the Sony)

Both could have been set strangely by a previous customer, or
intentionally by the store employees in order to make the set they
want to sell that day look better.


On Feb 6, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Richard Fisher wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I stand behind both Steve and Doug.
>
> Beyond the manufacturers setup to lure your purchase you are also
> dealing with store issues. My Samsung HLP5063 had all the artifacts
> described until it was calibrated.
>
> You can't really evaluate much in a store although so many think
> otherwise. It is wishful thinking!
>
> This just came up with a guy comparing a 6 month old Sony SXRD to a
> new Toshiba next to it. Said the Sony looked dimmer. Could 6 months
> of daily use reducing light output from the Sony lamp be the cause?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard Fisher
> www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>
> Doug Weil wrote:
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>> Hugh,
>> I think Steve's comment nails the majority of what you're probably
>> seeing. But I'd also suggest that you should be reasonably
>> skeptical of what you see
>> in big stores using video distribution systems. There are so many
>> things
>> that can go wrong with these systems that they may be the biggest
>> wild card
>> of all in trying to assess the relative picture quality of
>> different brands
>> or models. In my experience, these systems can vary wildly from
>> one delivery point to
>> another. I've learned this the hard way, as there have been several
>> occasions where I calibrated a set on a retail floor with a signal
>> generator
>> and got it looking great, and then when I returned it to the
>> distribution
>> system source, it looked awful. The first time I came across this,
>> it took
>> me more than an hour to figure out what was happening -- only
>> after I rolled
>> the set over to a different point, did I get the sort of images I was
>> expecting.
>> I suspect that there's a lot of amplification in the chain between
>> the
>> original source and the delivery point, and a lot of times those
>> boosters
>> are simply amplifying signals that have already been impaired to
>> the point
>> where boosting the signal is only going to magnify the problems.
>> Regards,
>> Doug
>> Clearly Resolved Image & Sound
>> Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
>> Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993
>> eMail: [email protected]
>> Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com
>> Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
>> http://www.imagingscience.com
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine On
>> Behalf Of
>> Hugh Campbell
>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:31
>> To: HDTV Magazine
>> Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>> I have consistently seen this on native resolutions of 1080p,
>> 1080i and 720p
>> with source material coming from ABC at 720p and CBS at 1080i.
>> Have seen it while viewing the new SXRD's, Toshiba 1080p, Samsung
>> 1080p, etc. It took repeated viewing as the picture looks so
>> vibrant but when viewing basketball or football games it is very
>> noticeable.
>> Hugh
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "M. Shane Sturgeon"
>> <[email protected]>
>> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>
>>> Fixed pixel displays usually experience this due to conversion
>>> from source
>>> to native resolutions, yes? Do you know what the particular case
>>> was when
>>> you were viewing the "new models"?
>>>
>>> -- M. Shane Sturgeon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> |---------+--------------------------------->
>>> | | "Hugh Campbell" |
>>> | | <[email protected]|
>>> | | r.com> |
>>> | | Sent by: "HDTV |
>>> | | Magazine" |
>>> | | <hdtvmagazine_tips@ilo|
>>> | | vehdtv.com> |
>>> | | |
>>> | | |
>>> | | 02/06/2006 11:05 AM |
>>> | | Please respond to |
>>> | | "HDTV Magazine" |
>>> |---------+--------------------------------->
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --|
>>> | |
>>> | To: "HDTV Magazine"
>>> <[email protected]> |
>>> | cc: |
>>> | Subject: Motion Artifacts |
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --|
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> This has probably been addressed before but after spending some time
>>> viewing
>>> the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more motion
>>> artifacts than I
>>> do
>>> with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why. This applies to
>>> broadcasts in 720p
>>>
>>> as well as 1080i.
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that same
>>> day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that same
>>> day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>> that same
>> day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>> that same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]

--

Steve Martin
Personal: [email protected]
Business: [email protected]
Smart Calibration, LLC
http://www.smartcalibration.com/




To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Like Steve said, I believe a lot of the artifacts result from excessive
processing. With the SXRD, if you "crank up" the "clarity" settings in the
DRC processing module, it will create ghosts/smearing with fast action.
Otherwise, I don't see any more artifacts that I saw with my prior
Mitsubishi RPTV.

Changing the subject, my prior Lumagen/Mits combo and the SXRD both suffered
from lip sync issues (minimum of 30-40 ms). I've found that D* channels
range from 30-175 ms and my digital locals are normally around 65 ms. For
those with sensitivity to this issue, I recently added a Felston DD540 to my
audio chain and it is a very satisfactory fix for those that don't have a
lip sync adjustment with their audio processor.

Regards,
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Martin" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> One factor may be all the "enhancements" that manufacturers are foisting
> on us. The DNiE on Samsung's, etc. add all kinds of garbage to the
> picture (and they decided that there shouldn't be an option to turn it
> off on the HL-R models). Digital Noise Reduction can also add motion
> related artifacts.
>
> So, unless you can be sure that you are viewing a set that has had those
> "features" turned off you never know what kind of processing might be
> going on.
>
> Most displays do have options to turn off that kind of processing (even
> on those Samsung's it can be done in the service mode) and can look
> excellent once that is done.
>
> Another factor may be how many "bits" they use for their digital
> processing. Many DLP/Plasma models have < 10 which can lead to banding
> and dithering effects that you may be seeing.
>
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2006, at 10:05 AM, Hugh Campbell wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> This has probably been addressed before but after spending some time
>> viewing the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more motion
>> artifacts than I do with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why. This
>> applies to broadcasts in 720p as well as 1080i.
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
> --
>
> Steve Martin
> Personal: [email protected]
> Business: [email protected]
> Smart Calibration, LLC
> http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Samsung's DNiE cannot be labeled across the board as "garbage". In fact,
several of us as owners have noticed that some subset of the DNiE features
should be turned off, but not all of them. When I had my set ISF calibrated,
we went through the service menu settings associated with this feature one
by one to decide which should be switched off.

BTW, this is consistent with reports from other Samsung owners in other
Forums. In the beginning when the method for turning it off was first
discovered, everyone automatically thought that was the thing to do. Only
after more investigation and experimentation did this thought process
change.

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Steve Martin
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:18 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> One factor may be all the "enhancements" that manufacturers are
> foisting on us. The DNiE on Samsung's, etc. add all kinds of garbage
> to the picture (and they decided that there shouldn't be an option to
> turn it off on the HL-R models). Digital Noise Reduction can also
> add motion related artifacts......
>



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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

A "Nit" but the Sony DRC processing is not active for HD (either 720p or
1080i).

Richard and Carrie Bray wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Like Steve said, I believe a lot of the artifacts result from
> excessive processing. With the SXRD, if you "crank up" the "clarity"
> settings in the DRC processing module, it will create ghosts/smearing
> with fast action. Otherwise, I don't see any more artifacts that I saw
> with my prior Mitsubishi RPTV.
>
> Changing the subject, my prior Lumagen/Mits combo and the SXRD both
> suffered from lip sync issues (minimum of 30-40 ms). I've found that
> D* channels range from 30-175 ms and my digital locals are normally
> around 65 ms. For those with sensitivity to this issue, I recently
> added a Felston DD540 to my audio chain and it is a very satisfactory
> fix for those that don't have a lip sync adjustment with their audio
> processor.
>
> Regards,
> Richard
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Martin"
> <[email protected]>
> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts
>
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> One factor may be all the "enhancements" that manufacturers are
>> foisting on us. The DNiE on Samsung's, etc. add all kinds of
>> garbage to the picture (and they decided that there shouldn't be an
>> option to turn it off on the HL-R models). Digital Noise Reduction
>> can also add motion related artifacts.
>>
>> So, unless you can be sure that you are viewing a set that has had
>> those "features" turned off you never know what kind of processing
>> might be going on.
>>
>> Most displays do have options to turn off that kind of processing
>> (even on those Samsung's it can be done in the service mode) and can
>> look excellent once that is done.
>>
>> Another factor may be how many "bits" they use for their digital
>> processing. Many DLP/Plasma models have < 10 which can lead to
>> banding and dithering effects that you may be seeing.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2006, at 10:05 AM, Hugh Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> This has probably been addressed before but after spending some
>>> time viewing the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more
>>> motion artifacts than I do with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why.
>>> This applies to broadcasts in 720p as well as 1080i.
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that same day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Steve Martin
>> Personal: [email protected]
>> Business: [email protected]
>> Smart Calibration, LLC
>> http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>

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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Dave,

It's active for any deinterlacing which obviously includes 1080i. The
owner's manual is confusing in one area but not in others (e.g., page 82,
DRC mode ....also not available when watching 480P or 720P). DRC is the
deinterlacing module.

Regards,
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Hancock" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> A "Nit" but the Sony DRC processing is not active for HD (either 720p or
> 1080i).
>
> Richard and Carrie Bray wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Like Steve said, I believe a lot of the artifacts result from excessive
>> processing. With the SXRD, if you "crank up" the "clarity" settings in
>> the DRC processing module, it will create ghosts/smearing with fast
>> action. Otherwise, I don't see any more artifacts that I saw with my
>> prior Mitsubishi RPTV.
>>
>> Changing the subject, my prior Lumagen/Mits combo and the SXRD both
>> suffered from lip sync issues (minimum of 30-40 ms). I've found that D*
>> channels range from 30-175 ms and my digital locals are normally around
>> 65 ms. For those with sensitivity to this issue, I recently added a
>> Felston DD540 to my audio chain and it is a very satisfactory fix for
>> those that don't have a lip sync adjustment with their audio processor.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Richard
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Martin"
>> <[email protected]>
>> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts
>>
>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> One factor may be all the "enhancements" that manufacturers are
>>> foisting on us. The DNiE on Samsung's, etc. add all kinds of garbage
>>> to the picture (and they decided that there shouldn't be an option to
>>> turn it off on the HL-R models). Digital Noise Reduction can also add
>>> motion related artifacts.
>>>
>>> So, unless you can be sure that you are viewing a set that has had
>>> those "features" turned off you never know what kind of processing
>>> might be going on.
>>>
>>> Most displays do have options to turn off that kind of processing (even
>>> on those Samsung's it can be done in the service mode) and can look
>>> excellent once that is done.
>>>
>>> Another factor may be how many "bits" they use for their digital
>>> processing. Many DLP/Plasma models have < 10 which can lead to banding
>>> and dithering effects that you may be seeing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 6, 2006, at 10:05 AM, Hugh Campbell wrote:
>>>
>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>> This has probably been addressed before but after spending some time
>>>> viewing the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more motion
>>>> artifacts than I do with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why. This
>>>> applies to broadcasts in 720p as well as 1080i.
>>>>
>>>> Hugh
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>>>> same day) send an email to:
>>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Steve Martin
>>> Personal: [email protected]
>>> Business: [email protected]
>>> Smart Calibration, LLC
>>> http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>>> same day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Ahh, said the blindman - I'm too used to calibrating Sony 1080i sets.

Richard and Carrie Bray wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Dave,
>
> It's active for any deinterlacing which obviously includes 1080i. The
> owner's manual is confusing in one area but not in others (e.g., page
> 82, DRC mode ....also not available when watching 480P or 720P). DRC
> is the deinterlacing module.
>
> Regards,
> Richard
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hancock"
> <[email protected]>
> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts
>
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> A "Nit" but the Sony DRC processing is not active for HD (either 720p
>> or 1080i).
>>
>> Richard and Carrie Bray wrote:
>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> Like Steve said, I believe a lot of the artifacts result from
>>> excessive processing. With the SXRD, if you "crank up" the "clarity"
>>> settings in the DRC processing module, it will create
>>> ghosts/smearing with fast action. Otherwise, I don't see any more
>>> artifacts that I saw with my prior Mitsubishi RPTV.
>>>
>>> Changing the subject, my prior Lumagen/Mits combo and the SXRD both
>>> suffered from lip sync issues (minimum of 30-40 ms). I've found
>>> that D* channels range from 30-175 ms and my digital locals are
>>> normally around 65 ms. For those with sensitivity to this issue, I
>>> recently added a Felston DD540 to my audio chain and it is a very
>>> satisfactory fix for those that don't have a lip sync adjustment
>>> with their audio processor.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Richard
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Martin"
>>> <[email protected]>
>>> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:18 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts
>>>
>>>
>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>> One factor may be all the "enhancements" that manufacturers are
>>>> foisting on us. The DNiE on Samsung's, etc. add all kinds of
>>>> garbage to the picture (and they decided that there shouldn't be an
>>>> option to turn it off on the HL-R models). Digital Noise Reduction
>>>> can also add motion related artifacts.
>>>>
>>>> So, unless you can be sure that you are viewing a set that has had
>>>> those "features" turned off you never know what kind of processing
>>>> might be going on.
>>>>
>>>> Most displays do have options to turn off that kind of processing
>>>> (even on those Samsung's it can be done in the service mode) and
>>>> can look excellent once that is done.
>>>>
>>>> Another factor may be how many "bits" they use for their digital
>>>> processing. Many DLP/Plasma models have < 10 which can lead to
>>>> banding and dithering effects that you may be seeing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 6, 2006, at 10:05 AM, Hugh Campbell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>
>>>>> This has probably been addressed before but after spending some
>>>>> time viewing the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more
>>>>> motion artifacts than I do with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering
>>>>> why. This applies to broadcasts in 720p as well as 1080i.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hugh
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>>>
>>>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>>>> that same day) send an email to:
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Steve Martin
>>>> Personal: [email protected]
>>>> Business: [email protected]
>>>> Smart Calibration, LLC
>>>> http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>>> that same day) send an email to:
>>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that same day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
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>
>
>
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>
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>

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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Thanks for all the input. It is very interesting that all these
sets...microdisplay...show the same artifacts when motion is involved. I
agree that having the televisions set to look their best in a highly lighted
area probably makes the problem worse and it is very bad. No difference
regardless of the store.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard and Carrie Bray" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Like Steve said, I believe a lot of the artifacts result from excessive
> processing. With the SXRD, if you "crank up" the "clarity" settings in the
> DRC processing module, it will create ghosts/smearing with fast action.
> Otherwise, I don't see any more artifacts that I saw with my prior
> Mitsubishi RPTV.
>
> Changing the subject, my prior Lumagen/Mits combo and the SXRD both
> suffered from lip sync issues (minimum of 30-40 ms). I've found that D*
> channels range from 30-175 ms and my digital locals are normally around 65
> ms. For those with sensitivity to this issue, I recently added a Felston
> DD540 to my audio chain and it is a very satisfactory fix for those that
> don't have a lip sync adjustment with their audio processor.
>
> Regards,
> Richard
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Martin" <[email protected]>
> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Motion Artifacts
>
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> One factor may be all the "enhancements" that manufacturers are foisting
>> on us. The DNiE on Samsung's, etc. add all kinds of garbage to the
>> picture (and they decided that there shouldn't be an option to turn it
>> off on the HL-R models). Digital Noise Reduction can also add motion
>> related artifacts.
>>
>> So, unless you can be sure that you are viewing a set that has had those
>> "features" turned off you never know what kind of processing might be
>> going on.
>>
>> Most displays do have options to turn off that kind of processing (even
>> on those Samsung's it can be done in the service mode) and can look
>> excellent once that is done.
>>
>> Another factor may be how many "bits" they use for their digital
>> processing. Many DLP/Plasma models have < 10 which can lead to banding
>> and dithering effects that you may be seeing.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2006, at 10:05 AM, Hugh Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> This has probably been addressed before but after spending some time
>>> viewing the new models, including 1080p, I am seeing more motion
>>> artifacts than I do with my CRT RPTV and I'm wondering why. This
>>> applies to broadcasts in 720p as well as 1080i.
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>>> same day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>
>> --
>>
>> Steve Martin
>> Personal: [email protected]
>> Business: [email protected]
>> Smart Calibration, LLC
>> http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
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