Multicasting and Distant Nets

Started by aggie Jun 19, 2006 6 posts
Read-only archive
#1
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The multicasting now practiced by many local network stations has the
immediate impact of significant bandwidth reduction with reduction in
picture and sound quality.

Now, the broadcasters are trying to get these (multicasted)
extra channels carried on cable (and I presume sat). It strikes me that
we should be allowed to receive distant net stations which are not
diluted, if our locals are multicasted; these could be easily carried by
sat or telcomm (fiber to the home) carriers. As I understand it, several
of the NETS are being carried by the sat guys now....

With the advent of 1080p display devices, there will be
ample interest in full bandwidth programming, and this interest will be
gaining. It would seem that the CEA would also be interested in full-
bandwidth transmission to assist in driving high-end sales.

The specter of HD/BD media players will serve to make the low quality
local stations look really bad. However, the apparent insensitivity to
broadcast quality (I don't mean content) has not been a prime motivator.

A suitable compromise would be for the sat's or telcoms to be provided
with a full bandwidth local signal, which they would need to retransmit
with minimum bandwidth reduction,(not the HD-lite currently available in
some locations).

I am puzzled that there has been no evident discussion of this on the
various forums or, it seems, at the FCC.

One would expect that either Murdoch and/or Charlie would be looking
hard at this issue.


Howard in South Bend


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
#2
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Actually, the FCC *has* been discussing this. They are about to
*mandate* multicast must-carry!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=688729

Bob Colby
---------------------------------------------
Switchover Scenarios: Tracking the DTV Transition

http://dtvswitch.blogspot.com


On Jun 18, 2006, at 8:31 PM, Howard A. Blackstead wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> The multicasting now practiced by many local network stations has the
> immediate impact of significant bandwidth reduction with reduction in
> picture and sound quality.
>
> Now, the broadcasters are trying to get these (multicasted)
> extra channels carried on cable (and I presume sat). It strikes me
> that
> we should be allowed to receive distant net stations which are not
> diluted, if our locals are multicasted; these could be easily
> carried by
> sat or telcomm (fiber to the home) carriers. As I understand it,
> several
> of the NETS are being carried by the sat guys now....
>
> With the advent of 1080p display devices, there will be
> ample interest in full bandwidth programming, and this interest
> will be
> gaining. It would seem that the CEA would also be interested in full-
> bandwidth transmission to assist in driving high-end sales.
>
> The specter of HD/BD media players will serve to make the low quality
> local stations look really bad. However, the apparent insensitivity to
> broadcast quality (I don't mean content) has not been a prime
> motivator.
>
> A suitable compromise would be for the sat's or telcoms to be provided
> with a full bandwidth local signal, which they would need to
> retransmit
> with minimum bandwidth reduction,(not the HD-lite currently
> available in
> some locations).
>
> I am puzzled that there has been no evident discussion of this on the
> various forums or, it seems, at the FCC.
>
> One would expect that either Murdoch and/or Charlie would be looking
> hard at this issue.
>
>
> Howard in South Bend




To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
#3
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Sorry, I misconstrued. You meant the FCC wasn't talking about distant
nets, I presume.

BC

On Jun 18, 2006, at 8:31 PM, Howard A. Blackstead wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> The multicasting now practiced by many local network stations has the
> immediate impact of significant bandwidth reduction with reduction in
> picture and sound quality.
>
> Now, the broadcasters are trying to get these (multicasted)
> extra channels carried on cable (and I presume sat). It strikes me
> that
> we should be allowed to receive distant net stations which are not
> diluted, if our locals are multicasted; these could be easily
> carried by
> sat or telcomm (fiber to the home) carriers. As I understand it,
> several
> of the NETS are being carried by the sat guys now....
>
> With the advent of 1080p display devices, there will be
> ample interest in full bandwidth programming, and this interest
> will be
> gaining. It would seem that the CEA would also be interested in full-
> bandwidth transmission to assist in driving high-end sales.
>
> The specter of HD/BD media players will serve to make the low quality
> local stations look really bad. However, the apparent insensitivity to
> broadcast quality (I don't mean content) has not been a prime
> motivator.
>
> A suitable compromise would be for the sat's or telcoms to be provided
> with a full bandwidth local signal, which they would need to
> retransmit
> with minimum bandwidth reduction,(not the HD-lite currently
> available in
> some locations).
>
> I am puzzled that there has been no evident discussion of this on the
> various forums or, it seems, at the FCC.
>
> One would expect that either Murdoch and/or Charlie would be looking
> hard at this issue.
>
>
> Howard in South Bend
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]

Switchover Scenarios: Tracking the DTV Transition

http://dtvswitch.blogspot.com



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
#4
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

While this is not a big topic at all it has come up here and in HDTV
magazine materials over the years. I do recall Dale providing reports
from Washington during some of the hearings and reading about this very
topic; early 2004, maybe 2003? As I recall, Cable doesn't want to be
required for the multicast because it would take up bandwidth and also
because historically a local station is considered one channel of
content. The multicast channels are duplicates of stations they carry or
they don't think there is enough audience to justify the loss in
bandwidth. The station comes right back with the fact that this is what
they transmit, way more folks are on cable and therefore the complete
channel spectrum should be made available as the community service
aspect of a cable system is to reproduce what one can receive over the
air; it is typically part of the charter. Note that sat legally gets out
of that one but I seem to recall some folks pointing their fingers that
way in discussing a new bill.

Whew.

This is a dicey subject for so many reasons. Should my cable company
carry the sub weather channel from my local NBC? What about the ABC
derived all day news, can't remember the channel name, that was a sub
for many nationwide? What about March Madness and CBS multicast? What
about my local religious station with 5 multicast channels in which I
don't watch the main one less the other 4?

What about the future concept of my 9 local stations banding together to
create a multicast over the air cable system providing 54 channels
directly competing with satellite and cable services? Should they carry
all of that when easily over 40 of those channels are likely duplicates
of what they already offer? How about sat service and their local carriage?

> The specter of HD/BD media players will serve to make the low quality
> local stations look really bad. However, the apparent insensitivity to
> broadcast quality (I don't mean content) has not been a prime motivator.

Interesting coincidence; a member in our local group made the same
comment in reference to:

Why is that South Korea draws thousands of complaints when bitrates
were decreased for the World Cup, but here in the US we sit by
passively while our HD is degraded in the name of the almighty dollar?

don't know about the dollar aspect but ya, we Americans and quality...
It's not how it works but that it works, and at the right price too!

Richard Fisher
HD Library is Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php

Howard A. Blackstead wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> The multicasting now practiced by many local network stations has the
> immediate impact of significant bandwidth reduction with reduction in
> picture and sound quality.
>
> Now, the broadcasters are trying to get these (multicasted)
> extra channels carried on cable (and I presume sat). It strikes me that
> we should be allowed to receive distant net stations which are not
> diluted, if our locals are multicasted; these could be easily carried by
> sat or telcomm (fiber to the home) carriers. As I understand it, several
> of the NETS are being carried by the sat guys now....
>
> With the advent of 1080p display devices, there will be
> ample interest in full bandwidth programming, and this interest will be
> gaining. It would seem that the CEA would also be interested in full-
> bandwidth transmission to assist in driving high-end sales.
>
> The specter of HD/BD media players will serve to make the low quality
> local stations look really bad. However, the apparent insensitivity to
> broadcast quality (I don't mean content) has not been a prime motivator.
>
> A suitable compromise would be for the sat's or telcoms to be provided
> with a full bandwidth local signal, which they would need to retransmit
> with minimum bandwidth reduction,(not the HD-lite currently available in
> some locations).
>
> I am puzzled that there has been no evident discussion of this on the
> various forums or, it seems, at the FCC.
>
> One would expect that either Murdoch and/or Charlie would be looking
> hard at this issue.
>
>
> Howard in South Bend
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
#5
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

6/18/2006 10:48pm ct

I'd like to get in on this.

First, there are truly bad multicast sub-channels and truly
good multicast sub-channels. There is also, almost always, a limit
on bandwidth on cable systems.

It seems to me that any FCC rule or Congressional law should
take into account the need for the cable companies to carry the
various local primary channels at a bandwidth quality equal to the
OTA broadcast. That includes both the 480i and the HD version.

After that, some formula has to be proposed which balances
the cable company's bandwidth capabilities with the demand for
sub-channel carriage by the local broadcasters. For instance, the
very last priority, if allowed at all, should be infomercials.

In this transition, the rule simply can't be all or
nothing. For one thing, after 2-17-2009, all those analog channels
will go away (or, at least, most of them) and lots of duplication
will be eliminated.

There also ought to be an FCC rule, supported by Congress,
which requires cable company size their available bandwidth for TV
first and then "Internet", and only then for other services, such as
voice (Telephone), making sure TV has the bandwidth necessary to
provide broadcast quality video and sound for all the local broadcast
channels' Primary channels, in 480i and HD.

This greedy reallocation of bandwidth is something akin to
what Enron would do and has to be stopped, by the public and for the
public. We certainly can't count on anyone else looking out for the
public, particularly the government

Local channels who want to do more sub-channels can also
resort to providing programs via fiber to the cable company; however,
these should be at a priority lower than the ones mentioned above.

There are exceptions. Seems to me each PBS station should
be allowed a 2nd full digital bandwidth allotment. It's not possible
for PBS to carry the Primary channel in 480i and HD while at the same
time multi-casting several different grade level instructional
programs. This is a serious issue which needs a solution.

One other thing. This tekie idea that we don't need
broadcast television any more, that it can all be done by cable and
satellite, well, that's just balderdash. The policy of the USA is to
provide free broadcast television to homes, not to require people to
buy cable or satellite services to get that programming. The
broadcast model is still alive and kicking and should be, even if
that is in conflict with those who live and die by the keyboard or
corporate mergers.

Best,
Robert

At 10:24 PM 6/18/2006, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>While this is not a big topic at all it has come up here and in HDTV
>magazine materials over the years. I do recall Dale providing
>reports from Washington during some of the hearings and reading
>about this very topic; early 2004, maybe 2003? As I recall, Cable
>doesn't want to be required for the multicast because it would take
>up bandwidth and also because historically a local station is
>considered one channel of content. The multicast channels are
>duplicates of stations they carry or they don't think there is
>enough audience to justify the loss in bandwidth. The station comes
>right back with the fact that this is what they transmit, way more
>folks are on cable and therefore the complete channel spectrum
>should be made available as the community service aspect of a cable
>system is to reproduce what one can receive over the air; it is
>typically part of the charter. Note that sat legally gets out of
>that one but I seem to recall some folks pointing their fingers that
>way in discussing a new bill.
>
>Whew.
>
>This is a dicey subject for so many reasons. Should my cable company
>carry the sub weather channel from my local NBC? What about the ABC
>derived all day news, can't remember the channel name, that was a
>sub for many nationwide? What about March Madness and CBS multicast?
>What about my local religious station with 5 multicast channels in
>which I don't watch the main one less the other 4?
>
>What about the future concept of my 9 local stations banding
>together to create a multicast over the air cable system providing
>54 channels directly competing with satellite and cable services?
>Should they carry all of that when easily over 40 of those channels
>are likely duplicates of what they already offer? How about sat
>service and their local carriage?
>
> > The specter of HD/BD media players will serve to make the low quality
> > local stations look really bad. However, the apparent insensitivity to
> > broadcast quality (I don't mean content) has not been a prime motivator.
>
>Interesting coincidence; a member in our local group made the same
>comment in reference to:
>
>Why is that South Korea draws thousands of complaints when bitrates
>were decreased for the World Cup, but here in the US we sit by
>passively while our HD is degraded in the name of the almighty dollar?
>
>don't know about the dollar aspect but ya, we Americans and
>quality... It's not how it works but that it works, and at the right price too!
>
>Richard Fisher
>HD Library is Published by Tech Services
>A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>
>Howard A. Blackstead wrote:
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>The multicasting now practiced by many local network stations has the
>>immediate impact of significant bandwidth reduction with reduction in
>>picture and sound quality.
>>Now, the broadcasters are trying to get these (multicasted)
>>extra channels carried on cable (and I presume sat). It strikes me that
>>we should be allowed to receive distant net stations which are not
>>diluted, if our locals are multicasted; these could be easily carried by
>>sat or telcomm (fiber to the home) carriers. As I understand it, several
>>of the NETS are being carried by the sat guys now....
>>With the advent of 1080p display devices, there will be
>>ample interest in full bandwidth programming, and this interest will be
>>gaining. It would seem that the CEA would also be interested in full-
>>bandwidth transmission to assist in driving high-end sales.
>>The specter of HD/BD media players will serve to make the low quality
>>local stations look really bad. However, the apparent insensitivity to
>>broadcast quality (I don't mean content) has not been a prime motivator.
>>A suitable compromise would be for the sat's or telcoms to be provided
>>with a full bandwidth local signal, which they would need to retransmit
>>with minimum bandwidth reduction,(not the HD-lite currently available in
>>some locations).
>>I am puzzled that there has been no evident discussion of this on the
>>various forums or, it seems, at the FCC.
>>One would expect that either Murdoch and/or Charlie would be looking
>>hard at this issue.
>>
>>Howard in South Bend
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>that same day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]
#6
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The FCC was planning to discuss this topic at its June 21 meeting,
but I just got a press release saying that it has been removed from
the agenda because there was a lack of consensus about how to move
forward. No word yet on whether it will come up later.

WR

At 12:14 AM 6/19/2006, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>6/18/2006 10:48pm ct
>
> I'd like to get in on this.
>
> First, there are truly bad multicast sub-channels and truly
> good multicast sub-channels. There is also, almost always, a limit
> on bandwidth on cable systems.
>
> It seems to me that any FCC rule or Congressional law
> should take into account the need for the cable companies to carry
> the various local primary channels at a bandwidth quality equal to
> the OTA broadcast. That includes both the 480i and the HD version.
>
> After that, some formula has to be proposed which balances
> the cable company's bandwidth capabilities with the demand for
> sub-channel carriage by the local broadcasters. For instance, the
> very last priority, if allowed at all, should be infomercials.
>
> In this transition, the rule simply can't be all or
> nothing. For one thing, after 2-17-2009, all those analog channels
> will go away (or, at least, most of them) and lots of duplication
> will be eliminated.
>
> There also ought to be an FCC rule, supported by Congress,
> which requires cable company size their available bandwidth for TV
> first and then "Internet", and only then for other services, such
> as voice (Telephone), making sure TV has the bandwidth necessary to
> provide broadcast quality video and sound for all the local
> broadcast channels' Primary channels, in 480i and HD.
>
> This greedy reallocation of bandwidth is something akin to
> what Enron would do and has to be stopped, by the public and for
> the public. We certainly can't count on anyone else looking out
> for the public, particularly the government
>
> Local channels who want to do more sub-channels can also
> resort to providing programs via fiber to the cable company;
> however, these should be at a priority lower than the ones mentioned above.
>
> There are exceptions. Seems to me each PBS station should
> be allowed a 2nd full digital bandwidth allotment. It's not
> possible for PBS to carry the Primary channel in 480i and HD while
> at the same time multi-casting several different grade level
> instructional programs. This is a serious issue which needs a solution.
>
> One other thing. This tekie idea that we don't need
> broadcast television any more, that it can all be done by cable and
> satellite, well, that's just balderdash. The policy of the USA is
> to provide free broadcast television to homes, not to require
> people to buy cable or satellite services to get that
> programming. The broadcast model is still alive and kicking and
> should be, even if that is in conflict with those who live and die
> by the keyboard or corporate mergers.
>
>Best,
>Robert
>
>At 10:24 PM 6/18/2006, you wrote:
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>While this is not a big topic at all it has come up here and in
>>HDTV magazine materials over the years. I do recall Dale providing
>>reports from Washington during some of the hearings and reading
>>about this very topic; early 2004, maybe 2003? As I recall, Cable
>>doesn't want to be required for the multicast because it would take
>>up bandwidth and also because historically a local station is
>>considered one channel of content. The multicast channels are
>>duplicates of stations they carry or they don't think there is
>>enough audience to justify the loss in bandwidth. The station comes
>>right back with the fact that this is what they transmit, way more
>>folks are on cable and therefore the complete channel spectrum
>>should be made available as the community service aspect of a cable
>>system is to reproduce what one can receive over the air; it is
>>typically part of the charter. Note that sat legally gets out of
>>that one but I seem to recall some folks pointing their fingers
>>that way in discussing a new bill.
>>
>>Whew.
>>
>>This is a dicey subject for so many reasons. Should my cable
>>company carry the sub weather channel from my local NBC? What about
>>the ABC derived all day news, can't remember the channel name, that
>>was a sub for many nationwide? What about March Madness and CBS
>>multicast? What about my local religious station with 5 multicast
>>channels in which I don't watch the main one less the other 4?
>>
>>What about the future concept of my 9 local stations banding
>>together to create a multicast over the air cable system providing
>>54 channels directly competing with satellite and cable services?
>>Should they carry all of that when easily over 40 of those channels
>>are likely duplicates of what they already offer? How about sat
>>service and their local carriage?
>>
>> > The specter of HD/BD media players will serve to make the low quality
>> > local stations look really bad. However, the apparent insensitivity to
>> > broadcast quality (I don't mean content) has not been a prime motivator.
>>
>>Interesting coincidence; a member in our local group made the same
>>comment in reference to:
>>
>>Why is that South Korea draws thousands of complaints when bitrates
>>were decreased for the World Cup, but here in the US we sit by
>>passively while our HD is degraded in the name of the almighty dollar?
>>
>>don't know about the dollar aspect but ya, we Americans and
>>quality... It's not how it works but that it works, and at the right price too!
>>
>>Richard Fisher
>>HD Library is Published by Tech Services
>>A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>>http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>>
>>Howard A. Blackstead wrote:
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>The multicasting now practiced by many local network stations has the
>>>immediate impact of significant bandwidth reduction with reduction in
>>>picture and sound quality.
>>>Now, the broadcasters are trying to get these (multicasted)
>>>extra channels carried on cable (and I presume sat). It strikes me that
>>>we should be allowed to receive distant net stations which are not
>>>diluted, if our locals are multicasted; these could be easily carried by
>>>sat or telcomm (fiber to the home) carriers. As I understand it, several
>>>of the NETS are being carried by the sat guys now....
>>>With the advent of 1080p display devices, there will be
>>>ample interest in full bandwidth programming, and this interest will be
>>>gaining. It would seem that the CEA would also be interested in full-
>>>bandwidth transmission to assist in driving high-end sales.
>>>The specter of HD/BD media players will serve to make the low quality
>>>local stations look really bad. However, the apparent insensitivity to
>>>broadcast quality (I don't mean content) has not been a prime motivator.
>>>A suitable compromise would be for the sat's or telcoms to be provided
>>>with a full bandwidth local signal, which they would need to retransmit
>>>with minimum bandwidth reduction,(not the HD-lite currently available in
>>>some locations).
>>>I am puzzled that there has been no evident discussion of this on the
>>>various forums or, it seems, at the FCC.
>>>One would expect that either Murdoch and/or Charlie would be looking
>>>hard at this issue.
>>>
>>>Howard in South Bend
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>>that same day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>that same day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]

--------------------------------------------------
Wayne Rash, Jr. 703-425-9231 Fax 703-425-3457
Senior Writer - eWEEK
Contributing Editor - Plane & Pilot
[email protected] [email protected]
[email protected] [email protected]
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]