PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Exact text from FCC Aug 8, 2002:

-------------------------------------
The FCC said DTV receivers are a necessary element of broadcast television service in
the same way that analog TV receivers have been since the inception of analog
television service. Although analog receivers are still dominant today, that will change
as the transition to digital TV progresses. The FCC said that its jurisdiction is
established by the 1962 All Channel Receiver Act (ACRA), which provides the FCC with
the "authority to require" that television sets "be capable of adequately receiving all
frequencies" allocated by the FCC for "television broadcasting." The authority provided
under the ACRA applies to all devices used to receive broadcast television service, not
just those used to receive analog signals.


The FCC said the plan reflects and accounts for the following:
- including DTV reception capability in new television receivers will require the
redesign of product lines,
- prices are declining and will decline even faster as economies of scale are
achieved and production efficiencies are realized over time, and
- prices of large TV sets have been declining at a rate of $100 to $800 per year,
so the additional cost of the DTV tuner may be partially or completely offset by the
general
price decline.
The FCC said this plan will ensure that new TV receivers include a DTV tuner on a
schedule as close as economically feasible to the December 31, 2006, target completion
date for
the DTV transition that was set forth in the Communications Act by Congress.
- more -

The Second Report and Order and Second Memorandum Opinion and Order adopted today
requires that all television receivers with screen sizes greater than 13 inches and all
television receiving equipment, such as videocassette recorders (VCRs) and digital
versatile disk (DVD) players/ recorders, will be required to include DTV reception
capability after July 1, 2007, according to the following schedule:
Receivers with screen sizes 36 inches and above -- 50% of a responsible party's units
must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2004; 100% of such units must include DTV
tuners effective July 1, 2005.
Receivers with screen sizes 25 to 35 inches -- 50% of a responsible party's units
must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2005; 100% of such units must include

DTV tuners effective July 1, 2006.
Receivers with screen sizes 13 to 24 inches -- 100% of all such units must include
DTV tuners effective July 1, 2007.


TV Interface Devices VCRs and DVD players/ recorders, etc. that receive broadcast
television signals -- 100% of all such units must include DTV tuners effective July 1,
2007.
In the item today, the FCC also declined for the time being to adopt labeling
requirements for TV receivers that are not able to receive any over- the- air
broadcast signals. The FCC stated that it is unclear when, or if, such products will
become commercially available or how they will be marketed. The FCC will continue to
monitor the state of the marketplace and take additional steps if necessary to protect
consumers' interests.

----------------------------------------


Jason,

Note that reference is made to existing equipment that is able to receive broadcast TV, meaning they
have a NTSC tuner.

If a computer company was producing a monitor for PC purposes, it did not have a tuner, and it would
be excluded.

The convergence movement makes the subject more complicated, screen sizes are growing for also the
computing industry (LCD, plasma, CRT,etc) and they could be applicable for non-PC purposes.

Other than the naming conventions that some manufactures use like "commercial line", "industrial
line", etc. it is not clear how a 42" plasma for the Information Center on your office (a monitor)
would be accurately separated (and exempt) from a similar plasma for your studio using DirecTV or
cable (for TV purposes), in other words its enforcement is a grey area for that part of the market
if the naming conventions are not used.

The FCC has established rules for entry ports to verify that equipment that suppose to have tuners
actually have them, otherwise they are not accepted for importation.

The way the implementation was written is conceptual, not by product line, meaning, a tuner should
be existent if the equipment is designed for TV reception use.

Once the market gets into the routine of the conceptual boundaries, the grey areas will a) become
more defined and b) become easier to enforce, if they would ever be enforced.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra









-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:31 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

This is where my confusion lies. The mandate seems to say "if the
product currently has an ntsc tuner, you better start putting an atsc
tuner in the next version of that product". My problem with this is, who
is to say that the manufacturer can't simply discontinue the old line
and start a new line with no tuner. The fact that a huge number of
displays currently have no tuner would seem to leave a huge escape
hatch.

Maybe if the exact text of the mandate were posted, it could be
interpreted - but again, since it is subject to interpretation, it seems
like it can be manipulated.

Jason Burroughs


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Robert Bullock
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:01 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
PRICESAND DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I believe what he meant was that the manufacturers might start producing
monitors with no NTSC or ATSC tuner. Correct me if I am wrong but, they
do not have to include an ATSC tuner if there is no tuner in the
monitor.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Hugh Campbell
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:54 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
PRICESAND DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Maybe I am missing something but in your example the VX4400 would have
to
have a tuner. If they mfg it after a certain date and it's at least "X"

inches in size it shall have a tuner. Calling it a different model
number
should not have anything to do with it.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
PRICESAND
DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

This is what continues to stump me. It seems so easy for manufacturers
to skirt this issue. Let me make an example and you tell me where I'm
missing it:

1. Company A makes a plasma display with model number VX4300. It's a
plasma with no tuner, manufactured from 2003 - 2005, no DVI

2. Company A also has a plasma with model number VX5500, their higher
end line with more component inputs and DVI, and built in speakers, same
manufacturing date.

3. In 2005 they plan the release of a follow up to their more successful
VX5500 with higher resolution and HDMI input. In the development stage,
it's decided they don't want to include a tuner. So instead of naming it
the VX5600, they call it the VX4400 and don't include a tuner.

I just can't see the mandate being enforcable - it seems so easy for
companies to weasle out of it...

Jason Burroughs

-----Original Message-----


100% of the equipment that had an analog tuner must
have an ATSC tuner, displays or non-displays (VCRs, Tivos, etc).

Rodolfo La Maestra

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

So the real question is going to be: Will Best Buy, Circuit City, and
other big chains purchase "monitors" and put them in their "television"
section? Or will they figure out the game and drop 'television' in favor
of 'home theater' or something more gimmicky?

I see your point about devices that are sold as monitors versus those
that are sold as televisions, but many people buy an "HDTV" that has no
tuner. These products were marketed and sold for home theaters, no
thought to using them as computers. These products would be exempt from
the rules, correct? I foresee mass chaos as overseas manufacturers rebel
and ship huge quantities of products to big box stores as 'monitors' and
the stores come up with clever ways to sell them.

Of course, none of this happens if the tuner comes down to <$50...

Jason Burroughs


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:25 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Exact text from FCC Aug 8, 2002:

-------------------------------------
The FCC said DTV receivers are a necessary element of
broadcast television service in
the same way that analog TV receivers have been since the
inception of analog
television service. Although analog receivers are still dominant
today, that will change
as the transition to digital TV progresses. The FCC said that
its jurisdiction is
established by the 1962 All Channel Receiver Act (ACRA), which
provides the FCC with
the "authority to require" that television sets "be capable of
adequately receiving all
frequencies" allocated by the FCC for "television broadcasting."
The authority provided
under the ACRA applies to all devices used to receive
broadcast television service, not
just those used to receive analog signals.


The FCC said the plan reflects and accounts for the
following:
- including DTV reception capability in new television
receivers will require the
redesign of product lines,
- prices are declining and will decline even faster as
economies of scale are
achieved and production efficiencies are realized over time, and
- prices of large TV sets have been declining at a rate of
$100 to $800 per year,
so the additional cost of the DTV tuner may be partially or
completely offset by the
general
price decline.
The FCC said this plan will ensure that new TV receivers
include a DTV tuner on a
schedule as close as economically feasible to the December 31,
2006, target completion
date for
the DTV transition that was set forth in the Communications
Act by Congress.
- more -

The Second Report and Order and Second Memorandum Opinion and
Order adopted today
requires that all television receivers with screen sizes greater
than 13 inches and all
television receiving equipment, such as videocassette recorders
(VCRs) and digital
versatile disk (DVD) players/ recorders, will be required to
include DTV reception
capability after July 1, 2007, according to the following
schedule:
Receivers with screen sizes 36 inches and above -- 50% of a
responsible party's units
must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2004; 100% of such
units must include DTV
tuners effective July 1, 2005.
Receivers with screen sizes 25 to 35 inches -- 50% of a
responsible party's units
must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2005; 100% of such
units must include

DTV tuners effective July 1, 2006.
Receivers with screen sizes 13 to 24 inches -- 100% of all
such units must include
DTV tuners effective July 1, 2007.


TV Interface Devices VCRs and DVD players/ recorders, etc.
that receive broadcast
television signals -- 100% of all such units must include DTV
tuners effective July 1,
2007.
In the item today, the FCC also declined for the time being
to adopt labeling
requirements for TV receivers that are not able to receive any
over- the- air
broadcast signals. The FCC stated that it is unclear when, or
if, such products will
become commercially available or how they will be marketed. The
FCC will continue to
monitor the state of the marketplace and take additional steps
if necessary to protect
consumers' interests.

----------------------------------------


Jason,

Note that reference is made to existing equipment that is able to
receive broadcast TV, meaning they
have a NTSC tuner.

If a computer company was producing a monitor for PC purposes, it did
not have a tuner, and it would
be excluded.

The convergence movement makes the subject more complicated, screen
sizes are growing for also the
computing industry (LCD, plasma, CRT,etc) and they could be applicable
for non-PC purposes.

Other than the naming conventions that some manufactures use like
"commercial line", "industrial
line", etc. it is not clear how a 42" plasma for the Information Center
on your office (a monitor)
would be accurately separated (and exempt) from a similar plasma for
your studio using DirecTV or
cable (for TV purposes), in other words its enforcement is a grey area
for that part of the market
if the naming conventions are not used.

The FCC has established rules for entry ports to verify that equipment
that suppose to have tuners
actually have them, otherwise they are not accepted for importation.

The way the implementation was written is conceptual, not by product
line, meaning, a tuner should
be existent if the equipment is designed for TV reception use.

Once the market gets into the routine of the conceptual boundaries, the
grey areas will a) become
more defined and b) become easier to enforce, if they would ever be
enforced.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra









-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:31 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

This is where my confusion lies. The mandate seems to say "if the
product currently has an ntsc tuner, you better start putting an atsc
tuner in the next version of that product". My problem with this is, who
is to say that the manufacturer can't simply discontinue the old line
and start a new line with no tuner. The fact that a huge number of
displays currently have no tuner would seem to leave a huge escape
hatch.

Maybe if the exact text of the mandate were posted, it could be
interpreted - but again, since it is subject to interpretation, it seems
like it can be manipulated.

Jason Burroughs


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Robert Bullock
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:01 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
PRICESAND DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I believe what he meant was that the manufacturers might start producing
monitors with no NTSC or ATSC tuner. Correct me if I am wrong but, they
do not have to include an ATSC tuner if there is no tuner in the
monitor.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Hugh Campbell
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:54 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
PRICESAND DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Maybe I am missing something but in your example the VX4400 would have
to
have a tuner. If they mfg it after a certain date and it's at least "X"

inches in size it shall have a tuner. Calling it a different model
number
should not have anything to do with it.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
PRICESAND
DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

This is what continues to stump me. It seems so easy for manufacturers
to skirt this issue. Let me make an example and you tell me where I'm
missing it:

1. Company A makes a plasma display with model number VX4300. It's a
plasma with no tuner, manufactured from 2003 - 2005, no DVI

2. Company A also has a plasma with model number VX5500, their higher
end line with more component inputs and DVI, and built in speakers, same
manufacturing date.

3. In 2005 they plan the release of a follow up to their more successful
VX5500 with higher resolution and HDMI input. In the development stage,
it's decided they don't want to include a tuner. So instead of naming it
the VX5600, they call it the VX4400 and don't include a tuner.

I just can't see the mandate being enforcable - it seems so easy for
companies to weasle out of it...

Jason Burroughs

-----Original Message-----


100% of the equipment that had an analog tuner must
have an ATSC tuner, displays or non-displays (VCRs, Tivos, etc).

Rodolfo La Maestra

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

To respond your question:

Projectors for HT that never had a tuner to perform their purpose are excluded.

A RPTV that had tuners for its purpose that some people might use for HT, must be integrated with a
tuner.

An industrial plasma designed for commercial purposes (without a tuner) that has all the same specs
of the TV version, should be able to be moved to your HT as a monitor and comply with the mandate.
The manufacturer did not produce the unit for your HT studio, you moved there.

I anticipate that analog VHS VCRs and other cheap pieces out of the market due to the enormous cost
relation of adding an ATSC tuner to a $25 piece, I see this as an opportunity to have the more
expensive DVD/VCR combination units taking the place of the classic VHS single units, and those
combination units receive an ATSC tuner close to the end of the deadline to have the chance for the
tuner cost to be as down as possible and still make sense for the total cost of the product.

I anticipate many manufacturers that know that the deadline is not cost beneficial for the product
they make (like a 13" set) to drop those and realign their product lines to more profitable
business.

What you describe about CC and BB is already happening, there is not one manager I discussed with
that is not looking for ways to give monitors to people to make the sale and feel a job well done,
only the ignorant sales staff steers people to integrated sets as the only alternative even when
they see the people have difficulty paying for even a monitor, I see the job of CEA to train all
those clowns rather than training millions of people that do not want to get a PhD in HDTV to watch
the news.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:36 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

So the real question is going to be: Will Best Buy, Circuit City, and
other big chains purchase "monitors" and put them in their "television"
section? Or will they figure out the game and drop 'television' in favor
of 'home theater' or something more gimmicky?

I see your point about devices that are sold as monitors versus those
that are sold as televisions, but many people buy an "HDTV" that has no
tuner. These products were marketed and sold for home theaters, no
thought to using them as computers. These products would be exempt from
the rules, correct? I foresee mass chaos as overseas manufacturers rebel
and ship huge quantities of products to big box stores as 'monitors' and
the stores come up with clever ways to sell them.

Of course, none of this happens if the tuner comes down to <$50...

Jason Burroughs


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:25 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Exact text from FCC Aug 8, 2002:

-------------------------------------
The FCC said DTV receivers are a necessary element of
broadcast television service in
the same way that analog TV receivers have been since the
inception of analog
television service. Although analog receivers are still dominant
today, that will change
as the transition to digital TV progresses. The FCC said that
its jurisdiction is
established by the 1962 All Channel Receiver Act (ACRA), which
provides the FCC with
the "authority to require" that television sets "be capable of
adequately receiving all
frequencies" allocated by the FCC for "television broadcasting."
The authority provided
under the ACRA applies to all devices used to receive
broadcast television service, not
just those used to receive analog signals.


The FCC said the plan reflects and accounts for the
following:
- including DTV reception capability in new television
receivers will require the
redesign of product lines,
- prices are declining and will decline even faster as
economies of scale are
achieved and production efficiencies are realized over time, and
- prices of large TV sets have been declining at a rate of
$100 to $800 per year,
so the additional cost of the DTV tuner may be partially or
completely offset by the
general
price decline.
The FCC said this plan will ensure that new TV receivers
include a DTV tuner on a
schedule as close as economically feasible to the December 31,
2006, target completion
date for
the DTV transition that was set forth in the Communications
Act by Congress.
- more -

The Second Report and Order and Second Memorandum Opinion and
Order adopted today
requires that all television receivers with screen sizes greater
than 13 inches and all
television receiving equipment, such as videocassette recorders
(VCRs) and digital
versatile disk (DVD) players/ recorders, will be required to
include DTV reception
capability after July 1, 2007, according to the following
schedule:
Receivers with screen sizes 36 inches and above -- 50% of a
responsible party's units
must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2004; 100% of such
units must include DTV
tuners effective July 1, 2005.
Receivers with screen sizes 25 to 35 inches -- 50% of a
responsible party's units
must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2005; 100% of such
units must include

DTV tuners effective July 1, 2006.
Receivers with screen sizes 13 to 24 inches -- 100% of all
such units must include
DTV tuners effective July 1, 2007.


TV Interface Devices VCRs and DVD players/ recorders, etc.
that receive broadcast
television signals -- 100% of all such units must include DTV
tuners effective July 1,
2007.
In the item today, the FCC also declined for the time being
to adopt labeling
requirements for TV receivers that are not able to receive any
over- the- air
broadcast signals. The FCC stated that it is unclear when, or
if, such products will
become commercially available or how they will be marketed. The
FCC will continue to
monitor the state of the marketplace and take additional steps
if necessary to protect
consumers' interests.

----------------------------------------


Jason,

Note that reference is made to existing equipment that is able to
receive broadcast TV, meaning they
have a NTSC tuner.

If a computer company was producing a monitor for PC purposes, it did
not have a tuner, and it would
be excluded.

The convergence movement makes the subject more complicated, screen
sizes are growing for also the
computing industry (LCD, plasma, CRT,etc) and they could be applicable
for non-PC purposes.

Other than the naming conventions that some manufactures use like
"commercial line", "industrial
line", etc. it is not clear how a 42" plasma for the Information Center
on your office (a monitor)
would be accurately separated (and exempt) from a similar plasma for
your studio using DirecTV or
cable (for TV purposes), in other words its enforcement is a grey area
for that part of the market
if the naming conventions are not used.

The FCC has established rules for entry ports to verify that equipment
that suppose to have tuners
actually have them, otherwise they are not accepted for importation.

The way the implementation was written is conceptual, not by product
line, meaning, a tuner should
be existent if the equipment is designed for TV reception use.

Once the market gets into the routine of the conceptual boundaries, the
grey areas will a) become
more defined and b) become easier to enforce, if they would ever be
enforced.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra









-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:31 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

This is where my confusion lies. The mandate seems to say "if the
product currently has an ntsc tuner, you better start putting an atsc
tuner in the next version of that product". My problem with this is, who
is to say that the manufacturer can't simply discontinue the old line
and start a new line with no tuner. The fact that a huge number of
displays currently have no tuner would seem to leave a huge escape
hatch.

Maybe if the exact text of the mandate were posted, it could be
interpreted - but again, since it is subject to interpretation, it seems
like it can be manipulated.

Jason Burroughs


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Robert Bullock
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:01 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
PRICESAND DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I believe what he meant was that the manufacturers might start producing
monitors with no NTSC or ATSC tuner. Correct me if I am wrong but, they
do not have to include an ATSC tuner if there is no tuner in the
monitor.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Hugh Campbell
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:54 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
PRICESAND DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Maybe I am missing something but in your example the VX4400 would have
to
have a tuner. If they mfg it after a certain date and it's at least "X"

inches in size it shall have a tuner. Calling it a different model
number
should not have anything to do with it.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
PRICESAND
DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

This is what continues to stump me. It seems so easy for manufacturers
to skirt this issue. Let me make an example and you tell me where I'm
missing it:

1. Company A makes a plasma display with model number VX4300. It's a
plasma with no tuner, manufactured from 2003 - 2005, no DVI

2. Company A also has a plasma with model number VX5500, their higher
end line with more component inputs and DVI, and built in speakers, same
manufacturing date.

3. In 2005 they plan the release of a follow up to their more successful
VX5500 with higher resolution and HDMI input. In the development stage,
it's decided they don't want to include a tuner. So instead of naming it
the VX5600, they call it the VX4400 and don't include a tuner.

I just can't see the mandate being enforcable - it seems so easy for
companies to weasle out of it...

Jason Burroughs

-----Original Message-----


100% of the equipment that had an analog tuner must
have an ATSC tuner, displays or non-displays (VCRs, Tivos, etc).

Rodolfo La Maestra

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Trust me on this one.......we will always see really small TVs (13" and
under) and other "junk" for next to nothing like VCR's and DVD players. The
ATSC tuner cost will come down to the price of an NTSC tuner and life will
go on. I am as certain of this as I am that the sun will come up tomorrow
for the simple reason that there is a market and demand for these products.

Best Buy does not have a sales staff, only "helpers" and these people know
nothing and I doubt if they ever will. The picture being displayed and the
cost will determine the sale, unfortunate but true. Some how, in my
naivet

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
have the ATSC tuner.

The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
with it and you can see what we are up against.

I have people calling me all the time because they ripped out the RF
connector and are convinced the product is useless regardless of the A/V
jacks on the back. When I tell them they don't need the tuner they are
dumbfound with disbelief. When I give them directions there are the few
that hook it up just like a DVD player and STILL go to channel 3 to see
if it works calling me to say I gave them poor advice.

Using Channel 3 or 4 to view other video devices is deeply entrenched in
the mass market physcee (how ever you spell that, too tired to look).

Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation

[email protected] wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> So the real question is going to be: Will Best Buy, Circuit City, and
> other big chains purchase "monitors" and put them in their "television"
> section? Or will they figure out the game and drop 'television' in favor
> of 'home theater' or something more gimmicky?
>
> I see your point about devices that are sold as monitors versus those
> that are sold as televisions, but many people buy an "HDTV" that has no
> tuner. These products were marketed and sold for home theaters, no
> thought to using them as computers. These products would be exempt from
> the rules, correct? I foresee mass chaos as overseas manufacturers rebel
> and ship huge quantities of products to big box stores as 'monitors' and
> the stores come up with clever ways to sell them.
>
> Of course, none of this happens if the tuner comes down to <$50...
>
> Jason Burroughs
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
> Of Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:25 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Jason,
>
> Exact text from FCC Aug 8, 2002:
>
> -------------------------------------
> The FCC said DTV receivers are a necessary element of
> broadcast television service in
> the same way that analog TV receivers have been since the
> inception of analog
> television service. Although analog receivers are still dominant
> today, that will change
> as the transition to digital TV progresses. The FCC said that
> its jurisdiction is
> established by the 1962 All Channel Receiver Act (ACRA), which
> provides the FCC with
> the "authority to require" that television sets "be capable of
> adequately receiving all
> frequencies" allocated by the FCC for "television broadcasting."
> The authority provided
> under the ACRA applies to all devices used to receive
> broadcast television service, not
> just those used to receive analog signals.
>
>
> The FCC said the plan reflects and accounts for the
> following:
> - including DTV reception capability in new television
> receivers will require the
> redesign of product lines,
> - prices are declining and will decline even faster as
> economies of scale are
> achieved and production efficiencies are realized over time, and
> - prices of large TV sets have been declining at a rate of
> $100 to $800 per year,
> so the additional cost of the DTV tuner may be partially or
> completely offset by the
> general
> price decline.
> The FCC said this plan will ensure that new TV receivers
> include a DTV tuner on a
> schedule as close as economically feasible to the December 31,
> 2006, target completion
> date for
> the DTV transition that was set forth in the Communications
> Act by Congress.
> - more -
>
> The Second Report and Order and Second Memorandum Opinion and
> Order adopted today
> requires that all television receivers with screen sizes greater
> than 13 inches and all
> television receiving equipment, such as videocassette recorders
> (VCRs) and digital
> versatile disk (DVD) players/ recorders, will be required to
> include DTV reception
> capability after July 1, 2007, according to the following
> schedule:
> Receivers with screen sizes 36 inches and above -- 50% of a
> responsible party's units
> must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2004; 100% of such
> units must include DTV
> tuners effective July 1, 2005.
> Receivers with screen sizes 25 to 35 inches -- 50% of a
> responsible party's units
> must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2005; 100% of such
> units must include
>
> DTV tuners effective July 1, 2006.
> Receivers with screen sizes 13 to 24 inches -- 100% of all
> such units must include
> DTV tuners effective July 1, 2007.
>
>
> TV Interface Devices VCRs and DVD players/ recorders, etc.
> that receive broadcast
> television signals -- 100% of all such units must include DTV
> tuners effective July 1,
> 2007.
> In the item today, the FCC also declined for the time being
> to adopt labeling
> requirements for TV receivers that are not able to receive any
> over- the- air
> broadcast signals. The FCC stated that it is unclear when, or
> if, such products will
> become commercially available or how they will be marketed. The
> FCC will continue to
> monitor the state of the marketplace and take additional steps
> if necessary to protect
> consumers' interests.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
> Jason,
>
> Note that reference is made to existing equipment that is able to
> receive broadcast TV, meaning they
> have a NTSC tuner.
>
> If a computer company was producing a monitor for PC purposes, it did
> not have a tuner, and it would
> be excluded.
>
> The convergence movement makes the subject more complicated, screen
> sizes are growing for also the
> computing industry (LCD, plasma, CRT,etc) and they could be applicable
> for non-PC purposes.
>
> Other than the naming conventions that some manufactures use like
> "commercial line", "industrial
> line", etc. it is not clear how a 42" plasma for the Information Center
> on your office (a monitor)
> would be accurately separated (and exempt) from a similar plasma for
> your studio using DirecTV or
> cable (for TV purposes), in other words its enforcement is a grey area
> for that part of the market
> if the naming conventions are not used.
>
> The FCC has established rules for entry ports to verify that equipment
> that suppose to have tuners
> actually have them, otherwise they are not accepted for importation.
>
> The way the implementation was written is conceptual, not by product
> line, meaning, a tuner should
> be existent if the equipment is designed for TV reception use.
>
> Once the market gets into the routine of the conceptual boundaries, the
> grey areas will a) become
> more defined and b) become easier to enforce, if they would ever be
> enforced.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:31 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> This is where my confusion lies. The mandate seems to say "if the
> product currently has an ntsc tuner, you better start putting an atsc
> tuner in the next version of that product". My problem with this is, who
> is to say that the manufacturer can't simply discontinue the old line
> and start a new line with no tuner. The fact that a huge number of
> displays currently have no tuner would seem to leave a huge escape
> hatch.
>
> Maybe if the exact text of the mandate were posted, it could be
> interpreted - but again, since it is subject to interpretation, it seems
> like it can be manipulated.
>
> Jason Burroughs
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
> Of Robert Bullock
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:01 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
> PRICESAND DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I believe what he meant was that the manufacturers might start producing
> monitors with no NTSC or ATSC tuner. Correct me if I am wrong but, they
> do not have to include an ATSC tuner if there is no tuner in the
> monitor.
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
> Of Hugh Campbell
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:54 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
> PRICESAND DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Maybe I am missing something but in your example the VX4400 would have
> to
> have a tuner. If they mfg it after a certain date and it's at least "X"
>
> inches in size it shall have a tuner. Calling it a different model
> number
> should not have anything to do with it.
>
> Hugh
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[email protected]>
> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:42 AM
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
> PRICESAND
> DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> This is what continues to stump me. It seems so easy for manufacturers
> to skirt this issue. Let me make an example and you tell me where I'm
> missing it:
>
> 1. Company A makes a plasma display with model number VX4300. It's a
> plasma with no tuner, manufactured from 2003 - 2005, no DVI
>
> 2. Company A also has a plasma with model number VX5500, their higher
> end line with more component inputs and DVI, and built in speakers, same
> manufacturing date.
>
> 3. In 2005 they plan the release of a follow up to their more successful
> VX5500 with higher resolution and HDMI input. In the development stage,
> it's decided they don't want to include a tuner. So instead of naming it
> the VX5600, they call it the VX4400 and don't include a tuner.
>
> I just can't see the mandate being enforcable - it seems so easy for
> companies to weasle out of it...
>
> Jason Burroughs
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> 100% of the equipment that had an analog tuner must
> have an ATSC tuner, displays or non-displays (VCRs, Tivos, etc).
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh,

You are so right on the pricing. It is a simple matter of volume.

Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation

Hugh Campbell wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Trust me on this one.......we will always see really small TVs (13" and
> under) and other "junk" for next to nothing like VCR's and DVD players.
> The ATSC tuner cost will come down to the price of an NTSC tuner and
> life will go on. I am as certain of this as I am that the sun will
> come up tomorrow for the simple reason that there is a market and demand
> for these products.
>
> Best Buy does not have a sales staff, only "helpers" and these people
> know nothing and I doubt if they ever will. The picture being displayed
> and the cost will determine the sale, unfortunate but true. Some how,
> in my naivet

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I had totally forgotten about the old channel 3 or 4 stuff. That will
totally blow away people. Many folks had a better picture using the tuner
of their VCR that they always left the VCR on. So funny.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
> have the ATSC tuner.
>
> The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
> integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input for
> a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away with it
> and you can see what we are up against.
>
> I have people calling me all the time because they ripped out the RF
> connector and are convinced the product is useless regardless of the A/V
> jacks on the back. When I tell them they don't need the tuner they are
> dumbfound with disbelief. When I give them directions there are the few
> that hook it up just like a DVD player and STILL go to channel 3 to see if
> it works calling me to say I gave them poor advice.
>
> Using Channel 3 or 4 to view other video devices is deeply entrenched in
> the mass market physcee (how ever you spell that, too tired to look).
>
> Richard Fisher
> www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> So the real question is going to be: Will Best Buy, Circuit City, and
>> other big chains purchase "monitors" and put them in their "television"
>> section? Or will they figure out the game and drop 'television' in favor
>> of 'home theater' or something more gimmicky? I see your point about
>> devices that are sold as monitors versus those
>> that are sold as televisions, but many people buy an "HDTV" that has no
>> tuner. These products were marketed and sold for home theaters, no
>> thought to using them as computers. These products would be exempt from
>> the rules, correct? I foresee mass chaos as overseas manufacturers rebel
>> and ship huge quantities of products to big box stores as 'monitors' and
>> the stores come up with clever ways to sell them.
>>
>> Of course, none of this happens if the tuner comes down to <$50...
>>
>> Jason Burroughs
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>> Of Rodolfo La Maestra
>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:25 PM
>> To: HDTV Magazine
>> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Jason,
>>
>> Exact text from FCC Aug 8, 2002:
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>> The FCC said DTV receivers are a necessary element of
>> broadcast television service in
>> the same way that analog TV receivers have been since the
>> inception of analog
>> television service. Although analog receivers are still dominant
>> today, that will change
>> as the transition to digital TV progresses. The FCC said that
>> its jurisdiction is
>> established by the 1962 All Channel Receiver Act (ACRA), which
>> provides the FCC with
>> the "authority to require" that television sets "be capable of
>> adequately receiving all
>> frequencies" allocated by the FCC for "television broadcasting."
>> The authority provided
>> under the ACRA applies to all devices used to receive
>> broadcast television service, not
>> just those used to receive analog signals.
>>
>>
>> The FCC said the plan reflects and accounts for the
>> following:
>> - including DTV reception capability in new television
>> receivers will require the
>> redesign of product lines,
>> - prices are declining and will decline even faster as
>> economies of scale are
>> achieved and production efficiencies are realized over time, and
>> - prices of large TV sets have been declining at a rate of
>> $100 to $800 per year,
>> so the additional cost of the DTV tuner may be partially or
>> completely offset by the
>> general
>> price decline.
>> The FCC said this plan will ensure that new TV receivers
>> include a DTV tuner on a
>> schedule as close as economically feasible to the December 31,
>> 2006, target completion
>> date for
>> the DTV transition that was set forth in the Communications
>> Act by Congress.
>> - more -
>>
>> The Second Report and Order and Second Memorandum Opinion and
>> Order adopted today
>> requires that all television receivers with screen sizes greater
>> than 13 inches and all
>> television receiving equipment, such as videocassette recorders
>> (VCRs) and digital
>> versatile disk (DVD) players/ recorders, will be required to
>> include DTV reception
>> capability after July 1, 2007, according to the following
>> schedule:
>> Receivers with screen sizes 36 inches and above -- 50% of a
>> responsible party's units
>> must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2004; 100% of such
>> units must include DTV
>> tuners effective July 1, 2005.
>> Receivers with screen sizes 25 to 35 inches -- 50% of a
>> responsible party's units
>> must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2005; 100% of such
>> units must include
>>
>> DTV tuners effective July 1, 2006.
>> Receivers with screen sizes 13 to 24 inches -- 100% of all
>> such units must include
>> DTV tuners effective July 1, 2007.
>>
>>
>> TV Interface Devices VCRs and DVD players/ recorders, etc.
>> that receive broadcast
>> television signals -- 100% of all such units must include DTV
>> tuners effective July 1,
>> 2007.
>> In the item today, the FCC also declined for the time being
>> to adopt labeling
>> requirements for TV receivers that are not able to receive any
>> over- the- air
>> broadcast signals. The FCC stated that it is unclear when, or
>> if, such products will
>> become commercially available or how they will be marketed. The
>> FCC will continue to
>> monitor the state of the marketplace and take additional steps
>> if necessary to protect
>> consumers' interests.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Jason,
>>
>> Note that reference is made to existing equipment that is able to
>> receive broadcast TV, meaning they
>> have a NTSC tuner.
>>
>> If a computer company was producing a monitor for PC purposes, it did
>> not have a tuner, and it would
>> be excluded.
>>
>> The convergence movement makes the subject more complicated, screen
>> sizes are growing for also the
>> computing industry (LCD, plasma, CRT,etc) and they could be applicable
>> for non-PC purposes.
>>
>> Other than the naming conventions that some manufactures use like
>> "commercial line", "industrial
>> line", etc. it is not clear how a 42" plasma for the Information Center
>> on your office (a monitor)
>> would be accurately separated (and exempt) from a similar plasma for
>> your studio using DirecTV or
>> cable (for TV purposes), in other words its enforcement is a grey area
>> for that part of the market
>> if the naming conventions are not used.
>>
>> The FCC has established rules for entry ports to verify that equipment
>> that suppose to have tuners
>> actually have them, otherwise they are not accepted for importation.
>>
>> The way the implementation was written is conceptual, not by product
>> line, meaning, a tuner should
>> be existent if the equipment is designed for TV reception use.
>>
>> Once the market gets into the routine of the conceptual boundaries, the
>> grey areas will a) become
>> more defined and b) become easier to enforce, if they would ever be
>> enforced.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Rodolfo La Maestra
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>> [email protected]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:31 PM
>> To: HDTV Magazine
>> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> This is where my confusion lies. The mandate seems to say "if the
>> product currently has an ntsc tuner, you better start putting an atsc
>> tuner in the next version of that product". My problem with this is, who
>> is to say that the manufacturer can't simply discontinue the old line
>> and start a new line with no tuner. The fact that a huge number of
>> displays currently have no tuner would seem to leave a huge escape
>> hatch.
>>
>> Maybe if the exact text of the mandate were posted, it could be
>> interpreted - but again, since it is subject to interpretation, it seems
>> like it can be manipulated.
>>
>> Jason Burroughs
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>> Of Robert Bullock
>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:01 AM
>> To: HDTV Magazine
>> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
>> PRICESAND DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> I believe what he meant was that the manufacturers might start producing
>> monitors with no NTSC or ATSC tuner. Correct me if I am wrong but, they
>> do not have to include an ATSC tuner if there is no tuner in the
>> monitor.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>> Of Hugh Campbell
>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:54 AM
>> To: HDTV Magazine
>> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
>> PRICESAND DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Maybe I am missing something but in your example the VX4400 would have
>> to
>> have a tuner. If they mfg it after a certain date and it's at least "X"
>>
>> inches in size it shall have a tuner. Calling it a different model
>> number
>> should not have anything to do with it.
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <[email protected]>
>> To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE SCHEDULE WILL RAISE TV
>> PRICESAND
>> DISRUPT MARKET, SAY CEA AND CERC
>>
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> This is what continues to stump me. It seems so easy for manufacturers
>> to skirt this issue. Let me make an example and you tell me where I'm
>> missing it:
>>
>> 1. Company A makes a plasma display with model number VX4300. It's a
>> plasma with no tuner, manufactured from 2003 - 2005, no DVI
>>
>> 2. Company A also has a plasma with model number VX5500, their higher
>> end line with more component inputs and DVI, and built in speakers, same
>> manufacturing date.
>>
>> 3. In 2005 they plan the release of a follow up to their more successful
>> VX5500 with higher resolution and HDMI input. In the development stage,
>> it's decided they don't want to include a tuner. So instead of naming it
>> the VX5600, they call it the VX4400 and don't include a tuner.
>>
>> I just can't see the mandate being enforcable - it seems so easy for
>> companies to weasle out of it...
>>
>> Jason Burroughs
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>
>> 100% of the equipment that had an analog tuner must
>> have an ATSC tuner, displays or non-displays (VCRs, Tivos, etc).
>>
>> Rodolfo La Maestra
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same
>> day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
don't see how it can be policed.

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Richard
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
have the ATSC tuner.

The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
with it and you can see what we are up against.

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

You are correct Richard.

And also, price will go down "eventually" and make Hugh statement also true.

Volume is not sufficient to make such price as low as needed for those low cost products, and that
will make your statement true Richard.

Manipulating the tuners MSRP for so long has caused both variables above (price and volume) run on
individual paths almost as elements that would not need each other, which would make them difficult
to intersect on the short timing of the deadline.

The evolution and inertia present on normal economies of scale need now to be artificially injected
by deals like Motorola mentioned to Congress for STBs for the OTA viewers, several years of
production for the large volume of millions of a product on the range of $50. If Motorola can not
make such large volume until a few years from now for a price that all the big fishes were bragging
about as possible now, it is showing that not even an artificial force so big to develop so much
volume is capable to bring both variables on the track of short term intersection.

The market that buys a 50" plasma for $8000 and pay for a $1000 tuner into it, as well as the market
that pays $500 for a tuner into a $3000 DLP does not need the phenomenon of such intersection to
purchase the product, they might not even know about any mandate or any manipulation of price; the
people that looks for rock bottom price equipment, such as a $25 VCR and a 13" TV DO NEED the
intersection of volume and tuner price for the product to be as appealing as before, those will be
impacted.

As you said Hugh prices will go down, life will continue, they will be produced and be back on the
store shelves again, the volume required to reach a reasonable price will make the timing unsuitable
with the deadline, it is too long, and since something has to give, the one that will give is the
"point in time" in the future, when volume and price will intersect in a way they make sense to each
other and to the products where those tuners are to be installed.

And here is another variable that complicates more the mix. Those products, like a DVD/VCR combo
with a NTSC tuner, will also go down considerably during the time above, and what it seems a good
"point in time" for the intersection for volume and price considering the prices of the combo
DVD/VCR today might not be any more then, because a $50 tuner (or even a $20 tuner) might still be
too much for the new low price of the recipient product. So there is another path running in
parallel which is the path of the products (displays, DVD/VHS recorders, etc) that will receive
tuners.

The industry has left all those variables run like ignoring each other, but due to the greed of
immediate profit from HD, MSRP of tuners was manipulated without a sense of a good plan. The FCC
forced more variables, and that made more difficult a natural evolution toward an appropriate
timeline, and now the important people that know everything feel that this is only a matter of
setting a date, like if the project plan would have a critical path.

It would have been ideal that an organization like the FCC would have clearly defined the efforts to
be made, assigned responsibility for each of those efforts, and made a plan of parallel efforts 20
years ago that would allow for their normal evolution individually so they would intersect with the
other efforts at a time of their maturity in price, volume, technology, only then setting a date
would be just to everyone, not to mention the consumer.

Just a small example of some of those parallel paths/efforts:

Development of HDTV itself of course
Development of OTA tuning devices (as STB and as chip)
Development of analog/digital connectivity standards
Development of copy protection systems equally applicable across the types of media (DVD, HDTV OTA,
Satellite, cable, etc) as a single standard (not as DTCP, HDCP, Flag, DSS, Macrovision, you name it)
Development of standard rules for those protection systems regarding how to handle content
And more importantly, project monitoring effort with a steel hand

The way the efforts were made was like they would not need each other at some time in the future,
and the consumer is not needed, setting a date to interrupt NTSC and tuner mandates with forceps,
and pretending to reconcile all those efforts after they were let run wild for so long, similar to
the intelligent approach of the point-haired manager of Dilbert.

Now is too late to reconcile and converge naturally, and it is a miracle that many early adopters
made things fit and work, but dates have to respect the need for price, volume, standards,
connectivity, respect for legacy, to self-adjust to each other in a way that makes sense to the
consumer.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Richard
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:18 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hugh,

You are so right on the pricing. It is a simple matter of volume.

Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation

Hugh Campbell wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Trust me on this one.......we will always see really small TVs (13" and
> under) and other "junk" for next to nothing like VCR's and DVD players.
> The ATSC tuner cost will come down to the price of an NTSC tuner and
> life will go on. I am as certain of this as I am that the sun will
> come up tomorrow for the simple reason that there is a market and demand
> for these products.
>
> Best Buy does not have a sales staff, only "helpers" and these people
> know nothing and I doubt if they ever will. The picture being displayed
> and the cost will determine the sale, unfortunate but true. Some how,
> in my naivet

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It is
not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few between.
The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
degree in my opinion.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
don't see how it can be policed.

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Richard
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
have the ATSC tuner.

The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
with it and you can see what we are up against.

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo, the net difference in component cost between a NTSC tuner and an
ATSC capable tuner is ~$12-$15. There is no rhyme or reason for the inflated
markups that have been seen in the marketplace short of pure greed. I don't
care if you hand build the PC boards for those sets, it won't push the price
up by that amount.

I think you'll be surprised by how quickly these companies will be able to
produce chips once a hard date is set. And the price will not rise by the
huge figures being suggested in this thread.

Let these CEA people whine. If the manufacturers are truly of the belief
they can't make the deadline, then put the head of Sony or Samsung in front
of a Congressional committee and get him on the record as stating such. This
nonsense being floated here is just that and in the end there is no
accountability when the threats don't come true.

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:58 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> You are correct Richard.
>
> And also, price will go down "eventually" and make Hugh statement also
> true.
>
> Volume is not sufficient to make such price as low as needed for those low
> cost products, and that
> will make your statement true Richard.
>
> Manipulating the tuners MSRP for so long has caused both variables above
> (price and volume) run on
> individual paths almost as elements that would not need each other, which
> would make them difficult
> to intersect on the short timing of the deadline.
>
> The evolution and inertia present on normal economies of scale need now to
> be artificially injected
> by deals like Motorola mentioned to Congress for STBs for the OTA viewers,
> several years of
> production for the large volume of millions of a product on the range of
> $50. If Motorola can not
> make such large volume until a few years from now for a price that all the
> big fishes were bragging
> about as possible now, it is showing that not even an artificial force so
> big to develop so much
> volume is capable to bring both variables on the track of short term
> intersection.
>
> The market that buys a 50" plasma for $8000 and pay for a $1000 tuner into
> it, as well as the market
> that pays $500 for a tuner into a $3000 DLP does not need the phenomenon
> of such intersection to
> purchase the product, they might not even know about any mandate or any
> manipulation of price; the
> people that looks for rock bottom price equipment, such as a $25 VCR and a
> 13" TV DO NEED the
> intersection of volume and tuner price for the product to be as appealing
> as before, those will be
> impacted.
>
> As you said Hugh prices will go down, life will continue, they will be
> produced and be back on the
> store shelves again, the volume required to reach a reasonable price will
> make the timing unsuitable
> with the deadline, it is too long, and since something has to give, the
> one that will give is the
> "point in time" in the future, when volume and price will intersect in a
> way they make sense to each
> other and to the products where those tuners are to be installed.
>
> And here is another variable that complicates more the mix. Those
> products, like a DVD/VCR combo
> with a NTSC tuner, will also go down considerably during the time above,
> and what it seems a good
> "point in time" for the intersection for volume and price considering the
> prices of the combo
> DVD/VCR today might not be any more then, because a $50 tuner (or even a
> $20 tuner) might still be
> too much for the new low price of the recipient product. So there is
> another path running in
> parallel which is the path of the products (displays, DVD/VHS recorders,
> etc) that will receive
> tuners.
>
> The industry has left all those variables run like ignoring each other,
> but due to the greed of
> immediate profit from HD, MSRP of tuners was manipulated without a sense
> of a good plan. The FCC
> forced more variables, and that made more difficult a natural evolution
> toward an appropriate
> timeline, and now the important people that know everything feel that this
> is only a matter of
> setting a date, like if the project plan would have a critical path.
>
> It would have been ideal that an organization like the FCC would have
> clearly defined the efforts to
> be made, assigned responsibility for each of those efforts, and made a
> plan of parallel efforts 20
> years ago that would allow for their normal evolution individually so they
> would intersect with the
> other efforts at a time of their maturity in price, volume, technology,
> only then setting a date
> would be just to everyone, not to mention the consumer.
>
> Just a small example of some of those parallel paths/efforts:
>
> Development of HDTV itself of course
> Development of OTA tuning devices (as STB and as chip)
> Development of analog/digital connectivity standards
> Development of copy protection systems equally applicable across the types
> of media (DVD, HDTV OTA,
> Satellite, cable, etc) as a single standard (not as DTCP, HDCP, Flag, DSS,
> Macrovision, you name it)
> Development of standard rules for those protection systems regarding how
> to handle content
> And more importantly, project monitoring effort with a steel hand
>
> The way the efforts were made was like they would not need each other at
> some time in the future,
> and the consumer is not needed, setting a date to interrupt NTSC and tuner
> mandates with forceps,
> and pretending to reconcile all those efforts after they were let run wild
> for so long, similar to
> the intelligent approach of the point-haired manager of Dilbert.
>
> Now is too late to reconcile and converge naturally, and it is a miracle
> that many early adopters
> made things fit and work, but dates have to respect the need for price,
> volume, standards,
> connectivity, respect for legacy, to self-adjust to each other in a way
> that makes sense to the
> consumer.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Richard
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:18 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hugh,
>
> You are so right on the pricing. It is a simple matter of volume.
>
> Richard Fisher
> www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>
> Hugh Campbell wrote:
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > Trust me on this one.......we will always see really small TVs (13" and
> > under) and other "junk" for next to nothing like VCR's and DVD players.
> > The ATSC tuner cost will come down to the price of an NTSC tuner and
> > life will go on. I am as certain of this as I am that the sun will
> > come up tomorrow for the simple reason that there is a market and demand
> > for these products.
> >
> > Best Buy does not have a sales staff, only "helpers" and these people
> > know nothing and I doubt if they ever will. The picture being displayed
> > and the cost will determine the sale, unfortunate but true. Some how,
> > in my naivet

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
slots.

Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the direction
of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing the
equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what makes
us think they know what they're doing in this regard.

LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
because it makes sense and are considerably less.

Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to pay
for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also have
the right to profit from it.

I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and ultimately
HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.

And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built HDTV
tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners but
then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
doesn't or it's useless.

Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
and guide the market place.

------------------------------------
Vining Audio & Video
Daniel R. Vining
LLC Member
[email protected]
30 Spring Street
Danbury, CT 06810
tel: 203 790-8450
fax: 203 790-8450
mobile: 203 470-2667
www.viningaudio.com
------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Hugh Campbell
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It is
not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few between.
The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
degree in my opinion.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
don't see how it can be policed.

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Richard
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
have the ATSC tuner.

The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
with it and you can see what we are up against.

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

A) Most people use cable or sat, vs OTA, so there is no need for a tuner in
the majority of sets, only an audio amp and speakers. Manufacturers and CEA
would be smart to play this fact up and emphasize its simplicity and cost
savings. A remote that contains set top box codes or may be taught codes
should be included.

B) The CEA should develop a universal tuner card slot for all sets just in
case anyone ever decides they want OTA.

C) Developing a chip set and tuner board for ATSC is easy enough, and at a
low price with volume. With HDTV sets now at $600, and still dropping, some
company is obviously now producing some. Though I could not find an online
price for the Samsung TX-R2678WH 26" model, CC has a 32" Samsung 32" HDTV
Monitor (TX-R3265)) with ATSC tuner for $665. Compared with a Toshiba 27"
NTSC TV for $230, I would say we are there when it comes to cheaper ATSC
tuners. With more volume movement on HD sets, we will see even lower prices
by CES, far closer to non-ATSC sets.

I believe the smoke and mirrors by CEA are just to keep HD prices up
temporarily at slightly inflated prices for increased mfg. margins until
they are forced into the no profit price wars that are typically the TV
market. I see the tacit truce by manufacturers on prices starting to
crumble, led by Samsung on CRT and DLP fronts.

Just my observations after being in this business since 1972 (My gosh,
shouldn't I have found a real job? My mother said this would happen if I
kept doing what I did in college!)



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Mankin
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 1:42 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo, the net difference in component cost between a NTSC tuner and an
ATSC capable tuner is ~$12-$15. There is no rhyme or reason for the inflated
markups that have been seen in the marketplace short of pure greed. I don't
care if you hand build the PC boards for those sets, it won't push the price
up by that amount.

I think you'll be surprised by how quickly these companies will be able to
produce chips once a hard date is set. And the price will not rise by the
huge figures being suggested in this thread.

Let these CEA people whine. If the manufacturers are truly of the belief
they can't make the deadline, then put the head of Sony or Samsung in front
of a Congressional committee and get him on the record as stating such. This
nonsense being floated here is just that and in the end there is no
accountability when the threats don't come true.

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:58 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> You are correct Richard.
>
> And also, price will go down "eventually" and make Hugh statement also
> true.
>
> Volume is not sufficient to make such price as low as needed for those low
> cost products, and that
> will make your statement true Richard.
>
> Manipulating the tuners MSRP for so long has caused both variables above
> (price and volume) run on
> individual paths almost as elements that would not need each other, which
> would make them difficult
> to intersect on the short timing of the deadline.
>
> The evolution and inertia present on normal economies of scale need now to
> be artificially injected
> by deals like Motorola mentioned to Congress for STBs for the OTA viewers,
> several years of
> production for the large volume of millions of a product on the range of
> $50. If Motorola can not
> make such large volume until a few years from now for a price that all the
> big fishes were bragging
> about as possible now, it is showing that not even an artificial force so
> big to develop so much
> volume is capable to bring both variables on the track of short term
> intersection.
>
> The market that buys a 50" plasma for $8000 and pay for a $1000 tuner into
> it, as well as the market
> that pays $500 for a tuner into a $3000 DLP does not need the phenomenon
> of such intersection to
> purchase the product, they might not even know about any mandate or any
> manipulation of price; the
> people that looks for rock bottom price equipment, such as a $25 VCR and a
> 13" TV DO NEED the
> intersection of volume and tuner price for the product to be as appealing
> as before, those will be
> impacted.
>
> As you said Hugh prices will go down, life will continue, they will be
> produced and be back on the
> store shelves again, the volume required to reach a reasonable price will
> make the timing unsuitable
> with the deadline, it is too long, and since something has to give, the
> one that will give is the
> "point in time" in the future, when volume and price will intersect in a
> way they make sense to each
> other and to the products where those tuners are to be installed.
>
> And here is another variable that complicates more the mix. Those
> products, like a DVD/VCR combo
> with a NTSC tuner, will also go down considerably during the time above,
> and what it seems a good
> "point in time" for the intersection for volume and price considering the
> prices of the combo
> DVD/VCR today might not be any more then, because a $50 tuner (or even a
> $20 tuner) might still be
> too much for the new low price of the recipient product. So there is
> another path running in
> parallel which is the path of the products (displays, DVD/VHS recorders,
> etc) that will receive
> tuners.
>
> The industry has left all those variables run like ignoring each other,
> but due to the greed of
> immediate profit from HD, MSRP of tuners was manipulated without a sense
> of a good plan. The FCC
> forced more variables, and that made more difficult a natural evolution
> toward an appropriate
> timeline, and now the important people that know everything feel that this
> is only a matter of
> setting a date, like if the project plan would have a critical path.
>
> It would have been ideal that an organization like the FCC would have
> clearly defined the efforts to
> be made, assigned responsibility for each of those efforts, and made a
> plan of parallel efforts 20
> years ago that would allow for their normal evolution individually so they
> would intersect with the
> other efforts at a time of their maturity in price, volume, technology,
> only then setting a date
> would be just to everyone, not to mention the consumer.
>
> Just a small example of some of those parallel paths/efforts:
>
> Development of HDTV itself of course
> Development of OTA tuning devices (as STB and as chip)
> Development of analog/digital connectivity standards
> Development of copy protection systems equally applicable across the types
> of media (DVD, HDTV OTA,
> Satellite, cable, etc) as a single standard (not as DTCP, HDCP, Flag, DSS,
> Macrovision, you name it)
> Development of standard rules for those protection systems regarding how
> to handle content
> And more importantly, project monitoring effort with a steel hand
>
> The way the efforts were made was like they would not need each other at
> some time in the future,
> and the consumer is not needed, setting a date to interrupt NTSC and tuner
> mandates with forceps,
> and pretending to reconcile all those efforts after they were let run wild
> for so long, similar to
> the intelligent approach of the point-haired manager of Dilbert.
>
> Now is too late to reconcile and converge naturally, and it is a miracle
> that many early adopters
> made things fit and work, but dates have to respect the need for price,
> volume, standards,
> connectivity, respect for legacy, to self-adjust to each other in a way
> that makes sense to the
> consumer.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Richard
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:18 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hugh,
>
> You are so right on the pricing. It is a simple matter of volume.
>
> Richard Fisher
> www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>
> Hugh Campbell wrote:
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > Trust me on this one.......we will always see really small TVs (13" and
> > under) and other "junk" for next to nothing like VCR's and DVD players.
> > The ATSC tuner cost will come down to the price of an NTSC tuner and
> > life will go on. I am as certain of this as I am that the sun will
> > come up tomorrow for the simple reason that there is a market and demand
> > for these products.
> >
> > Best Buy does not have a sales staff, only "helpers" and these people
> > know nothing and I doubt if they ever will. The picture being displayed
> > and the cost will determine the sale, unfortunate but true. Some how,
> > in my naivet

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I don't know that I agree with (A); or rather, I think there are two different statements:

Perhaps more HOMES have satellite or cable, but I believe more SETS do use an integrated tuner. I have cable (and OTA HD) to my home, but only one set has an external tuner - the other 5 need a tuner, as they receive the coax signal straight from the cable.

Having said that, I am not a fan of forcing the tuner in to the unit; I believe the market will sort itself out. Along that line, I think a company needs to be aggressive and take the first step to really slash the costs of tuners. Maybe someone unexpected - this is the kind of move that Dell has pulled in the past, hitting an extremely low price point with a fairly mature technology that is moving into a more widespread market. Jason - I believe you've heard of them .



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of Joseph Azar
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:21 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

A) Most people use cable or sat, vs OTA, so there is no need for a tuner in
the majority of sets, only an audio amp and speakers. Manufacturers and CEA
would be smart to play this fact up and emphasize its simplicity and cost
savings. A remote that contains set top box codes or may be taught codes
should be included.

B) The CEA should develop a universal tuner card slot for all sets just in
case anyone ever decides they want OTA.

C) Developing a chip set and tuner board for ATSC is easy enough, and at a
low price with volume. With HDTV sets now at $600, and still dropping, some
company is obviously now producing some. Though I could not find an online
price for the Samsung TX-R2678WH 26" model, CC has a 32" Samsung 32" HDTV
Monitor (TX-R3265)) with ATSC tuner for $665. Compared with a Toshiba 27"
NTSC TV for $230, I would say we are there when it comes to cheaper ATSC
tuners. With more volume movement on HD sets, we will see even lower prices
by CES, far closer to non-ATSC sets.

I believe the smoke and mirrors by CEA are just to keep HD prices up
temporarily at slightly inflated prices for increased mfg. margins until
they are forced into the no profit price wars that are typically the TV
market. I see the tacit truce by manufacturers on prices starting to
crumble, led by Samsung on CRT and DLP fronts.

Just my observations after being in this business since 1972 (My gosh,
shouldn't I have found a real job? My mother said this would happen if I
kept doing what I did in college!)



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Mankin
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 1:42 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo, the net difference in component cost between a NTSC tuner and an
ATSC capable tuner is ~$12-$15. There is no rhyme or reason for the inflated
markups that have been seen in the marketplace short of pure greed. I don't
care if you hand build the PC boards for those sets, it won't push the price
up by that amount.

I think you'll be surprised by how quickly these companies will be able to
produce chips once a hard date is set. And the price will not rise by the
huge figures being suggested in this thread.

Let these CEA people whine. If the manufacturers are truly of the belief
they can't make the deadline, then put the head of Sony or Samsung in front
of a Congressional committee and get him on the record as stating such. This
nonsense being floated here is just that and in the end there is no
accountability when the threats don't come true.

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:58 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> You are correct Richard.
>
> And also, price will go down "eventually" and make Hugh statement also
> true.
>
> Volume is not sufficient to make such price as low as needed for those low
> cost products, and that
> will make your statement true Richard.
>
> Manipulating the tuners MSRP for so long has caused both variables above
> (price and volume) run on
> individual paths almost as elements that would not need each other, which
> would make them difficult
> to intersect on the short timing of the deadline.
>
> The evolution and inertia present on normal economies of scale need now to
> be artificially injected
> by deals like Motorola mentioned to Congress for STBs for the OTA viewers,
> several years of
> production for the large volume of millions of a product on the range of
> $50. If Motorola can not
> make such large volume until a few years from now for a price that all the
> big fishes were bragging
> about as possible now, it is showing that not even an artificial force so
> big to develop so much
> volume is capable to bring both variables on the track of short term
> intersection.
>
> The market that buys a 50" plasma for $8000 and pay for a $1000 tuner into
> it, as well as the market
> that pays $500 for a tuner into a $3000 DLP does not need the phenomenon
> of such intersection to
> purchase the product, they might not even know about any mandate or any
> manipulation of price; the
> people that looks for rock bottom price equipment, such as a $25 VCR and a
> 13" TV DO NEED the
> intersection of volume and tuner price for the product to be as appealing
> as before, those will be
> impacted.
>
> As you said Hugh prices will go down, life will continue, they will be
> produced and be back on the
> store shelves again, the volume required to reach a reasonable price will
> make the timing unsuitable
> with the deadline, it is too long, and since something has to give, the
> one that will give is the
> "point in time" in the future, when volume and price will intersect in a
> way they make sense to each
> other and to the products where those tuners are to be installed.
>
> And here is another variable that complicates more the mix. Those
> products, like a DVD/VCR combo
> with a NTSC tuner, will also go down considerably during the time above,
> and what it seems a good
> "point in time" for the intersection for volume and price considering the
> prices of the combo
> DVD/VCR today might not be any more then, because a $50 tuner (or even a
> $20 tuner) might still be
> too much for the new low price of the recipient product. So there is
> another path running in
> parallel which is the path of the products (displays, DVD/VHS recorders,
> etc) that will receive
> tuners.
>
> The industry has left all those variables run like ignoring each other,
> but due to the greed of
> immediate profit from HD, MSRP of tuners was manipulated without a sense
> of a good plan. The FCC
> forced more variables, and that made more difficult a natural evolution
> toward an appropriate
> timeline, and now the important people that know everything feel that this
> is only a matter of
> setting a date, like if the project plan would have a critical path.
>
> It would have been ideal that an organization like the FCC would have
> clearly defined the efforts to
> be made, assigned responsibility for each of those efforts, and made a
> plan of parallel efforts 20
> years ago that would allow for their normal evolution individually so they
> would intersect with the
> other efforts at a time of their maturity in price, volume, technology,
> only then setting a date
> would be just to everyone, not to mention the consumer.
>
> Just a small example of some of those parallel paths/efforts:
>
> Development of HDTV itself of course
> Development of OTA tuning devices (as STB and as chip)
> Development of analog/digital connectivity standards
> Development of copy protection systems equally applicable across the types
> of media (DVD, HDTV OTA,
> Satellite, cable, etc) as a single standard (not as DTCP, HDCP, Flag, DSS,
> Macrovision, you name it)
> Development of standard rules for those protection systems regarding how
> to handle content
> And more importantly, project monitoring effort with a steel hand
>
> The way the efforts were made was like they would not need each other at
> some time in the future,
> and the consumer is not needed, setting a date to interrupt NTSC and tuner
> mandates with forceps,
> and pretending to reconcile all those efforts after they were let run wild
> for so long, similar to
> the intelligent approach of the point-haired manager of Dilbert.
>
> Now is too late to reconcile and converge naturally, and it is a miracle
> that many early adopters
> made things fit and work, but dates have to respect the need for price,
> volume, standards,
> connectivity, respect for legacy, to self-adjust to each other in a way
> that makes sense to the
> consumer.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Richard
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:18 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hugh,
>
> You are so right on the pricing. It is a simple matter of volume.
>
> Richard Fisher
> www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>
> Hugh Campbell wrote:
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > Trust me on this one.......we will always see really small TVs (13" and
> > under) and other "junk" for next to nothing like VCR's and DVD players.
> > The ATSC tuner cost will come down to the price of an NTSC tuner and
> > life will go on. I am as certain of this as I am that the sun will
> > come up tomorrow for the simple reason that there is a market and demand
> > for these products.
> >
> > Best Buy does not have a sales staff, only "helpers" and these people
> > know nothing and I doubt if they ever will. The picture being displayed
> > and the cost will determine the sale, unfortunate but true. Some how,
> > in my naivet

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

7/29/2005 9:38am ct

Hey, engineer-types out there.

The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are
not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if
they do know that, miss the implications of that.

I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable
goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get security
news? without OTA?

Robert

At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
>purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
>satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
>slots.
>
>Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the direction
>of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing the
>equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what makes
>us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
>
>LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
>because it makes sense and are considerably less.
>
>Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
>needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to pay
>for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also have
>the right to profit from it.
>
>I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and ultimately
>HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
>
>And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built HDTV
>tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners but
>then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
>doesn't or it's useless.
>
>Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
>and guide the market place.
>
>------------------------------------
>Vining Audio & Video
>Daniel R. Vining
>LLC Member
>[email protected]
>30 Spring Street
>Danbury, CT 06810
>tel: 203 790-8450
>fax: 203 790-8450
>mobile: 203 470-2667
>www.viningaudio.com
>------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>Hugh Campbell
>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
>To: HDTV Magazine
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It is
>not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
>tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
>version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
>then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
>same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
>calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
>happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
>making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few between.
>The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
>pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
>without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
>degree in my opinion.
>
>Hugh
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[email protected]>
>To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
>ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
>to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
>the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
>that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
>don't see how it can be policed.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>Of Richard
>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
>To: HDTV Magazine
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
>have the ATSC tuner.
>
>The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
>integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
>for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
>with it and you can see what we are up against.
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>day) send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>day) send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Well said, Robert. Sometimes the gov't has to step in to protect us from
ourselves.

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Robert Wade Brown
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 7:43 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> 7/29/2005 9:38am ct
>
> Hey, engineer-types out there.
>
> The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
> protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are
> not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if
> they do know that, miss the implications of that.
>
> I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
> up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
> every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable
> goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get security
> news? without OTA?
>
> Robert
>
> At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
> >purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
> >satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
> >slots.
> >
> >Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the
> direction
> >of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing
> the
> >equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what
> makes
> >us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
> >
> >LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
> >because it makes sense and are considerably less.
> >
> >Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
> >needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to
> pay
> >for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also
> have
> >the right to profit from it.
> >
> >I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
> ultimately
> >HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
> >
> >And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built
> HDTV
> >tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners
> but
> >then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
> >doesn't or it's useless.
> >
> >Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
> >and guide the market place.
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >Vining Audio & Video
> >Daniel R. Vining
> >LLC Member
> >[email protected]
> >30 Spring Street
> >Danbury, CT 06810
> >tel: 203 790-8450
> >fax: 203 790-8450
> >mobile: 203 470-2667
> >www.viningaudio.com
> >------------------------------------
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> >Hugh Campbell
> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
> >To: HDTV Magazine
> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It
> is
> >not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
> >tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
> >version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
> >then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
> >same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
> >calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
> >happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
> >making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few
> between.
> >The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
> >pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
> >without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
> >degree in my opinion.
> >
> >Hugh
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <[email protected]>
> >To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >
> >
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
> >ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
> >to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
> >the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
> >that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
> >don't see how it can be policed.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
> >Of Richard
> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
> >To: HDTV Magazine
> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
> >have the ATSC tuner.
> >
> >The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
> >integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
> >for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
> >with it and you can see what we are up against.
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same
> >day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same
> >day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> >that same day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Having trouble finding cost effective examples? Well here's a prime
candidate at $85 today:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... sp?EdpNo=1
333269&Sku=A46-4070&SRCCODE=WEBGOOAUT&CMP=KNC-GOOGL

That even includes software for a PVR. If you take that and start working
backwards in your mind, subtracting marketing, packaging and a couple levels
of distribution costs, it should give you a reasonable idea of what an ATSC
tuner by itself costs.

The examples you're looking at are wrapped in sheet metal, have their own
power supplies, displays, etc. and more mainstream distribution systems, all
of which add to the cost. The above example simply strips it down a little
better.

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Joseph Azar
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 5:21 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> A) Most people use cable or sat, vs OTA, so there is no need for a tuner
> in
> the majority of sets, only an audio amp and speakers. Manufacturers and
> CEA
> would be smart to play this fact up and emphasize its simplicity and cost
> savings. A remote that contains set top box codes or may be taught codes
> should be included.
>
> B) The CEA should develop a universal tuner card slot for all sets just in
> case anyone ever decides they want OTA.
>
> C) Developing a chip set and tuner board for ATSC is easy enough, and at a
> low price with volume. With HDTV sets now at $600, and still dropping,
> some
> company is obviously now producing some. Though I could not find an online
> price for the Samsung TX-R2678WH 26" model, CC has a 32" Samsung 32" HDTV
> Monitor (TX-R3265)) with ATSC tuner for $665. Compared with a Toshiba 27"
> NTSC TV for $230, I would say we are there when it comes to cheaper ATSC
> tuners. With more volume movement on HD sets, we will see even lower
> prices
> by CES, far closer to non-ATSC sets.
>
> I believe the smoke and mirrors by CEA are just to keep HD prices up
> temporarily at slightly inflated prices for increased mfg. margins until
> they are forced into the no profit price wars that are typically the TV
> market. I see the tacit truce by manufacturers on prices starting to
> crumble, led by Samsung on CRT and DLP fronts.
>
> Just my observations after being in this business since 1972 (My gosh,
> shouldn't I have found a real job? My mother said this would happen if I
> kept doing what I did in college!)
>
>
>



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Uh, perhaps by radio -- since none of the televisions in my home run on
batteries.

While radio isn't by any means perfect, the last source of information I'd
trust in time of crisis is my local TV anchors.

Regards,


Doug
Clearly Resolved Image & Sound

Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993

eMail: [email protected]
Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com

Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
http://www.imagingscience.com

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Robert Wade Brown
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:43
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

7/29/2005 9:38am ct

Hey, engineer-types out there.

The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are
not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if
they do know that, miss the implications of that.

I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable
goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get security
news? without OTA?

Robert

At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
>purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
>satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
>slots.
>
>Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the direction
>of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing the
>equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what makes
>us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
>
>LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
>because it makes sense and are considerably less.
>
>Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
>needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to
pay
>for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also have
>the right to profit from it.
>
>I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
ultimately
>HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
>
>And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built
HDTV
>tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners but
>then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
>doesn't or it's useless.
>
>Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
>and guide the market place.
>
>------------------------------------
>Vining Audio & Video
>Daniel R. Vining
>LLC Member
>[email protected]
>30 Spring Street
>Danbury, CT 06810
>tel: 203 790-8450
>fax: 203 790-8450
>mobile: 203 470-2667
>www.viningaudio.com
>------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>Hugh Campbell
>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
>To: HDTV Magazine
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It is
>not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
>tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
>version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
>then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
>same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
>calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
>happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
>making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few between.
>The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
>pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
>without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
>degree in my opinion.
>
>Hugh
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[email protected]>
>To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
>ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
>to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
>the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
>that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
>don't see how it can be policed.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>Of Richard
>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
>To: HDTV Magazine
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
>have the ATSC tuner.
>
>The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
>integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
>for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
>with it and you can see what we are up against.
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>day) send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>day) send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Robert Wade Brown said:
"I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA."

And I said: "But the FCC will see to it in the interest of
national security that televisions will have built-in tuners."

And I have said that several times as it is the reason behind many FCC rules
having to do with radio as well as television. Never mind that when cable
or the sats fail no one will run out to put up an OTA. So perhaps the
reasoning has to be re-thought in light of today's technology.

Hugh






----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Wade Brown" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> 7/29/2005 9:38am ct
>
> Hey, engineer-types out there.
>
> The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
> protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are not
> getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if they do
> know that, miss the implications of that.
>
> I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it up. It is
> now and always has been a national security issue for every home to have a
> TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable goes out or the satellites
> are disabled, how do people get security news? without OTA?
>
> Robert
>
> At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
>>purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
>>satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
>>slots.
>>
>>Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the
>>direction
>>of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing
>>the
>>equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what
>>makes
>>us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
>>
>>LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
>>because it makes sense and are considerably less.
>>
>>Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
>>needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to
>>pay
>>for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also have
>>the right to profit from it.
>>
>>I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
>>ultimately
>>HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
>>
>>And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built
>>HDTV
>>tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners but
>>then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
>>doesn't or it's useless.
>>
>>Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
>>and guide the market place.
>>
>>------------------------------------
>>Vining Audio & Video
>>Daniel R. Vining
>>LLC Member
>>[email protected]
>>30 Spring Street
>>Danbury, CT 06810
>>tel: 203 790-8450
>>fax: 203 790-8450
>>mobile: 203 470-2667
>>www.viningaudio.com
>>------------------------------------
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>Hugh Campbell
>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It
>>is
>>not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
>>tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
>>version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
>>then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
>>same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
>>calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
>>happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
>>making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few
>>between.
>>The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
>>pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
>>without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
>>degree in my opinion.
>>
>>Hugh
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <[email protected]>
>>To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
>>ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
>>to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
>>the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
>>that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
>>don't see how it can be policed.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>>Of Richard
>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
>>have the ATSC tuner.
>>
>>The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
>>integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
>>for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
>>with it and you can see what we are up against.
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

7/29/2005 10:32am ct

Doug,
Of course, radio would be vital; but I don't just mean the
moments after a national emergency or a localized attack. I'm
talking about various visual presentations which inform and educate
in a crisis plus people want their TV in such a case. There would
probably still be electricity and if there were none, various backup
power scenarios are available.

But all that isn't the issue. The issue is, you plan for
these things. Ignoring the need for tuners and quibbling about which
block on the street has power or not misses the big
picture. Nothing's perfect, but it is in our country's best interest
for most households to have phones (911), radio, tv and soon,
internet. Requiring tuners which are necessary to receive OTA is
prudent government policy. Get On Board.

Best,
Robert

At 10:10 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Uh, perhaps by radio -- since none of the televisions in my home run on
>batteries.
>
>While radio isn't by any means perfect, the last source of information I'd
>trust in time of crisis is my local TV anchors.
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Doug
>Clearly Resolved Image & Sound
>
>Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
>Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993
>
>eMail: [email protected]
>Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com
>
>Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
>http://www.imagingscience.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>Robert Wade Brown
>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:43
>To: HDTV Magazine
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>7/29/2005 9:38am ct
>
> Hey, engineer-types out there.
>
> The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
>protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are
>not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if
>they do know that, miss the implications of that.
>
> I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
>up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
>every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable
>goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get security
>news? without OTA?
>
>Robert
>
>At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
> >purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
> >satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
> >slots.
> >
> >Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the direction
> >of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing the
> >equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what makes
> >us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
> >
> >LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
> >because it makes sense and are considerably less.
> >
> >Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
> >needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to
>pay
> >for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also have
> >the right to profit from it.
> >
> >I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
>ultimately
> >HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
> >
> >And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built
>HDTV
> >tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners but
> >then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
> >doesn't or it's useless.
> >
> >Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
> >and guide the market place.
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >Vining Audio & Video
> >Daniel R. Vining
> >LLC Member
> >[email protected]
> >30 Spring Street
> >Danbury, CT 06810
> >tel: 203 790-8450
> >fax: 203 790-8450
> >mobile: 203 470-2667
> >www.viningaudio.com
> >------------------------------------
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> >Hugh Campbell
> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
> >To: HDTV Magazine
> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It is
> >not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
> >tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
> >version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
> >then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
> >same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
> >calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
> >happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
> >making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few between.
> >The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
> >pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
> >without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
> >degree in my opinion.
> >
> >Hugh
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <[email protected]>
> >To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >
> >
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
> >ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
> >to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
> >the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
> >that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
> >don't see how it can be policed.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
> >Of Richard
> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
> >To: HDTV Magazine
> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
> >have the ATSC tuner.
> >
> >The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
> >integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
> >for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
> >with it and you can see what we are up against.
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> >day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> >day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> >that same day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>day) send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

7/29/2005 10:39am ct

Hugh,

I don't get your point about no one runing out to put up an
OTA. I would imagine the run on rabbit ears would be amazing.

Robert

At 10:12 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Robert Wade Brown said:
>"I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
>up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
>every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA."
>
>And I said: "But the FCC will see to it in the interest of
>national security that televisions will have built-in tuners."
>
>And I have said that several times as it is the reason behind many
>FCC rules having to do with radio as well as television. Never mind
>that when cable or the sats fail no one will run out to put up an
>OTA. So perhaps the reasoning has to be re-thought in light of
>today's technology.
>
>Hugh
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Wade Brown"
><[email protected]>
>To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:43 AM
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>7/29/2005 9:38am ct
>>
>> Hey, engineer-types out there.
>>
>> The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's
>> about protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know
>> they are not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set
>> and, even if they do know that, miss the implications of that.
>>
>> I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
>> up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
>> every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the
>> cable goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get
>> security news? without OTA?
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
>>>purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
>>>satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
>>>slots.
>>>
>>>Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the direction
>>>of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing the
>>>equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what makes
>>>us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
>>>
>>>LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
>>>because it makes sense and are considerably less.
>>>
>>>Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
>>>needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to pay
>>>for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also have
>>>the right to profit from it.
>>>
>>>I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and ultimately
>>>HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
>>>
>>>And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built HDTV
>>>tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners but
>>>then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
>>>doesn't or it's useless.
>>>
>>>Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
>>>and guide the market place.
>>>
>>>------------------------------------
>>>Vining Audio & Video
>>>Daniel R. Vining
>>>LLC Member
>>>[email protected]
>>>30 Spring Street
>>>Danbury, CT 06810
>>>tel: 203 790-8450
>>>fax: 203 790-8450
>>>mobile: 203 470-2667
>>>www.viningaudio.com
>>>------------------------------------
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>Hugh Campbell
>>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It is
>>>not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
>>>tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
>>>version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
>>>then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
>>>same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
>>>calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
>>>happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
>>>making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few between.
>>>The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
>>>pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
>>>without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
>>>degree in my opinion.
>>>
>>>Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: <[email protected]>
>>>To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
>>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>>
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
>>>ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
>>>to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
>>>the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
>>>that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
>>>don't see how it can be policed.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>>>Of Richard
>>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
>>>have the ATSC tuner.
>>>
>>>The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
>>>integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
>>>for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
>>>with it and you can see what we are up against.
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>>that same day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>that same day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Robert,

Quite frankly I don't believe requiring tuners in televisions for national
or local emergencies is the way the government should proceed. When
hurricane Hugo came through here we were without electricity for 6 days and
the battery powered radio was king. Television is good for warning about
impending weather problems but I don't see it being much good after the fact
as usually one loses electricity. And rabbit ears would not do me any good
in my location. The radio, in all forms, is the emergency link.

Hugh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Wade Brown" <[email protected]>
To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE


> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> 7/29/2005 10:32am ct
>
> Doug,
> Of course, radio would be vital; but I don't just mean the moments
> after a national emergency or a localized attack. I'm talking about
> various visual presentations which inform and educate in a crisis plus
> people want their TV in such a case. There would probably still be
> electricity and if there were none, various backup power scenarios are
> available.
>
> But all that isn't the issue. The issue is, you plan for these
> things. Ignoring the need for tuners and quibbling about which block on
> the street has power or not misses the big picture. Nothing's perfect,
> but it is in our country's best interest for most households to have
> phones (911), radio, tv and soon, internet. Requiring tuners which are
> necessary to receive OTA is prudent government policy. Get On Board.
>
> Best,
> Robert
>
> At 10:10 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Uh, perhaps by radio -- since none of the televisions in my home run on
>>batteries.
>>
>>While radio isn't by any means perfect, the last source of information I'd
>>trust in time of crisis is my local TV anchors.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>
>>Doug
>>Clearly Resolved Image & Sound
>>
>>Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
>>Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993
>>
>>eMail: [email protected]
>>Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com
>>
>>Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
>>http://www.imagingscience.com
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>Robert Wade Brown
>>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:43
>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>7/29/2005 9:38am ct
>>
>> Hey, engineer-types out there.
>>
>> The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
>>protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are
>>not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if
>>they do know that, miss the implications of that.
>>
>> I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
>>up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
>>every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable
>>goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get security
>>news? without OTA?
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>> >
>> >They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
>> >purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards
>> >and
>> >satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
>> >slots.
>> >
>> >Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the
>> >direction
>> >of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing
>> >the
>> >equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what
>> >makes
>> >us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
>> >
>> >LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
>> >because it makes sense and are considerably less.
>> >
>> >Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's
>> >not
>> >needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to
>>pay
>> >for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also
>> >have
>> >the right to profit from it.
>> >
>> >I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
>>ultimately
>> >HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
>> >
>> >And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built
>>HDTV
>> >tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners
>> >but
>> >then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
>> >doesn't or it's useless.
>> >
>> >Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers
>> >direct
>> >and guide the market place.
>> >
>> >------------------------------------
>> >Vining Audio & Video
>> >Daniel R. Vining
>> >LLC Member
>> >[email protected]
>> >30 Spring Street
>> >Danbury, CT 06810
>> >tel: 203 790-8450
>> >fax: 203 790-8450
>> >mobile: 203 470-2667
>> >www.viningaudio.com
>> >------------------------------------
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>> >Of
>> >Hugh Campbell
>> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
>> >To: HDTV Magazine
>> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>> >
>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>> >
>> >Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It
>> >is
>> >not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
>> >tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of
>> >the
>> >version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
>> >then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in
>> >the
>> >same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
>> >calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
>> >happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
>> >making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few
>> >between.
>> >The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
>> >pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
>> >without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
>> >degree in my opinion.
>> >
>> >Hugh
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: <[email protected]>
>> >To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
>> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>> >
>> >
>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>> >
>> >Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
>> >ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
>> >to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
>> >the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
>> >that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
>> >don't see how it can be policed.
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>> >Of Richard
>> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
>> >To: HDTV Magazine
>> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>> >
>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>> >
>> >The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
>> >have the ATSC tuner.
>> >
>> >The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
>> >integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
>> >for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
>> >with it and you can see what we are up against.
>> >
>> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>> >
>> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> >same
>> >day) send an email to:
>> >[email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>> >
>> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>> >same
>> >day) send an email to:
>> >[email protected]
>> >
>> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>> >
>> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>> >that same day) send an email to:
>> >[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

7/27/2005 10:57am ct

Hugh,
Radio is clearly the first link. TV plays a role when power
is available. We need both.

I went thru a similar power disaster in NE Texas in 2000
when we had an ice blizzard that cut all power, ALL POWER, in our
city and surrounding counties for a long time. My house didn't get
restoration for a week. It was 3 weeks before cable was
restored. We had to live in a hotel in another city for days. So I
understand your point. But they had TV in that hotel and we had TV
(no cable) OTA when our power came back up. It was very helpful.

Robert

At 10:52 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Robert,
>
>Quite frankly I don't believe requiring tuners in televisions for
>national or local emergencies is the way the government should
>proceed. When hurricane Hugo came through here we were without
>electricity for 6 days and the battery powered radio was
>king. Television is good for warning about impending weather
>problems but I don't see it being much good after the fact as
>usually one loses electricity. And rabbit ears would not do me any
>good in my location. The radio, in all forms, is the emergency link.
>
>Hugh
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Wade Brown"
><[email protected]>
>To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:38 AM
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>7/29/2005 10:32am ct
>>
>>Doug,
>> Of course, radio would be vital; but I don't just mean the
>> moments after a national emergency or a localized attack. I'm
>> talking about various visual presentations which inform and
>> educate in a crisis plus people want their TV in such a
>> case. There would probably still be electricity and if there were
>> none, various backup power scenarios are available.
>>
>> But all that isn't the issue. The issue is, you plan for
>> these things. Ignoring the need for tuners and quibbling about
>> which block on the street has power or not misses the big
>> picture. Nothing's perfect, but it is in our country's best
>> interest for most households to have phones (911), radio, tv and
>> soon, internet. Requiring tuners which are necessary to receive
>> OTA is prudent government policy. Get On Board.
>>
>>Best,
>>Robert
>>
>>At 10:10 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Uh, perhaps by radio -- since none of the televisions in my home run on
>>>batteries.
>>>
>>>While radio isn't by any means perfect, the last source of information I'd
>>>trust in time of crisis is my local TV anchors.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>Doug
>>>Clearly Resolved Image & Sound
>>>
>>>Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
>>>Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993
>>>
>>>eMail: [email protected]
>>>Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com
>>>
>>>Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
>>>http://www.imagingscience.com
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>Robert Wade Brown
>>>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:43
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>7/29/2005 9:38am ct
>>>
>>> Hey, engineer-types out there.
>>>
>>> The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
>>>protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are
>>>not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if
>>>they do know that, miss the implications of that.
>>>
>>> I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
>>>up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
>>>every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable
>>>goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get security
>>>news? without OTA?
>>>
>>>Robert
>>>
>>>At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>> >
>>> >They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
>>> >purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards >and
>>> >satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
>>> >slots.
>>> >
>>> >Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate
>>> the >direction
>>> >of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government
>>> designing >the
>>> >equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so
>>> what >makes
>>> >us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
>>> >
>>> >LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
>>> >because it makes sense and are considerably less.
>>> >
>>> >Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's >not
>>> >needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to
>>>pay
>>> >for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they
>>> also >have
>>> >the right to profit from it.
>>> >
>>> >I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
>>>ultimately
>>> >HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
>>> >
>>> >And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built
>>>HDTV
>>> >tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV
>>> tuners >but
>>> >then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
>>> >doesn't or it's useless.
>>> >
>>> >Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers >direct
>>> >and guide the market place.
>>> >
>>> >------------------------------------
>>> >Vining Audio & Video
>>> >Daniel R. Vining
>>> >LLC Member
>>> >[email protected]
>>> >30 Spring Street
>>> >Danbury, CT 06810
>>> >tel: 203 790-8450
>>> >fax: 203 790-8450
>>> >mobile: 203 470-2667
>>> >www.viningaudio.com
>>> >------------------------------------
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf >Of
>>> >Hugh Campbell
>>> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
>>> >To: HDTV Magazine
>>> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>> >
>>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>> >
>>> >Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really
>>> is. It >is
>>> >not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
>>> >tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of >the
>>> >version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
>>> >then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in >the
>>> >same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
>>> >calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
>>> >happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
>>> >making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and
>>> few >between.
>>> >The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
>>> >pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
>>> >without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
>>> >degree in my opinion.
>>> >
>>> >Hugh
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >----- Original Message -----
>>> >From: <[email protected]>
>>> >To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>>> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
>>> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>> >
>>> >Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
>>> >ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
>>> >to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
>>> >the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
>>> >that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
>>> >don't see how it can be policed.
>>> >
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>>> >Of Richard
>>> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
>>> >To: HDTV Magazine
>>> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>> >
>>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>> >
>>> >The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
>>> >have the ATSC tuner.
>>> >
>>> >The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
>>> >integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
>>> >for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
>>> >with it and you can see what we are up against.
>>> >
>>> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>> >
>>> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that >same
>>> >day) send an email to:
>>> >[email protected]
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>> >
>>> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that >same
>>> >day) send an email to:
>>> >[email protected]
>>> >
>>> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>> >
>>> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> >that same day) send an email to:
>>> >[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>>that same day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>that same day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

"very helpful" I agree with, but worthy of billions of dollars and years
of litigation and political bickering? Even when it's all said and done,
the number of monitors used as displays will increase exponentially with
time. All those people will have to buy a second display device with
integrated tuner just for those emergencies.

Jason Burroughs

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of Robert Wade Brown
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:02 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

7/27/2005 10:57am ct

Hugh,
Radio is clearly the first link. TV plays a role when power
is available. We need both.

I went thru a similar power disaster in NE Texas in 2000
when we had an ice blizzard that cut all power, ALL POWER, in our
city and surrounding counties for a long time. My house didn't get
restoration for a week. It was 3 weeks before cable was
restored. We had to live in a hotel in another city for days. So I
understand your point. But they had TV in that hotel and we had TV
(no cable) OTA when our power came back up. It was very helpful.

Robert

At 10:52 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Robert,
>
>Quite frankly I don't believe requiring tuners in televisions for
>national or local emergencies is the way the government should
>proceed. When hurricane Hugo came through here we were without
>electricity for 6 days and the battery powered radio was
>king. Television is good for warning about impending weather
>problems but I don't see it being much good after the fact as
>usually one loses electricity. And rabbit ears would not do me any
>good in my location. The radio, in all forms, is the emergency link.
>
>Hugh
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Wade Brown"
><[email protected]>
>To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:38 AM
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>7/29/2005 10:32am ct
>>
>>Doug,
>> Of course, radio would be vital; but I don't just mean the
>> moments after a national emergency or a localized attack. I'm
>> talking about various visual presentations which inform and
>> educate in a crisis plus people want their TV in such a
>> case. There would probably still be electricity and if there were
>> none, various backup power scenarios are available.
>>
>> But all that isn't the issue. The issue is, you plan for
>> these things. Ignoring the need for tuners and quibbling about
>> which block on the street has power or not misses the big
>> picture. Nothing's perfect, but it is in our country's best
>> interest for most households to have phones (911), radio, tv and
>> soon, internet. Requiring tuners which are necessary to receive
>> OTA is prudent government policy. Get On Board.
>>
>>Best,
>>Robert
>>
>>At 10:10 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Uh, perhaps by radio -- since none of the televisions in my home run
on
>>>batteries.
>>>
>>>While radio isn't by any means perfect, the last source of
information I'd
>>>trust in time of crisis is my local TV anchors.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>Doug
>>>Clearly Resolved Image & Sound
>>>
>>>Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
>>>Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993
>>>
>>>eMail: [email protected]
>>>Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com
>>>
>>>Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
>>>http://www.imagingscience.com
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On
Behalf Of
>>>Robert Wade Brown
>>>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:43
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>7/29/2005 9:38am ct
>>>
>>> Hey, engineer-types out there.
>>>
>>> The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
>>>protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are
>>>not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if
>>>they do know that, miss the implications of that.
>>>
>>> I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
>>>up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
>>>every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable
>>>goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get security
>>>news? without OTA?
>>>
>>>Robert
>>>
>>>At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>> >
>>> >They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no
practical
>>> >purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable
cards >and
>>> >satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via
card
>>> >slots.
>>> >
>>> >Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate
>>> the >direction
>>> >of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government
>>> designing >the
>>> >equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so
>>> what >makes
>>> >us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
>>> >
>>> >LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I
assume is
>>> >because it makes sense and are considerably less.
>>> >
>>> >Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if
it's >not
>>> >needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to
have to
>>>pay
>>> >for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they
>>> also >have
>>> >the right to profit from it.
>>> >
>>> >I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
>>>ultimately
>>> >HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
>>> >
>>> >And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have
built
>>>HDTV
>>> >tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV
>>> tuners >but
>>> >then you have to explain to customers why in reality or
practicality it
>>> >doesn't or it's useless.
>>> >
>>> >Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers
>direct
>>> >and guide the market place.
>>> >
>>> >------------------------------------
>>> >Vining Audio & Video
>>> >Daniel R. Vining
>>> >LLC Member
>>> >[email protected]
>>> >30 Spring Street
>>> >Danbury, CT 06810
>>> >tel: 203 790-8450
>>> >fax: 203 790-8450
>>> >mobile: 203 470-2667
>>> >www.viningaudio.com
>>> >------------------------------------
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: HDTV Magazine On
Behalf >Of
>>> >Hugh Campbell
>>> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
>>> >To: HDTV Magazine
>>> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>> >
>>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>> >
>>> >Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really
>>> is. It >is
>>> >not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an
ATSC
>>> >tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless
of >the
>>> >version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's,
etc.
>>> >then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner
in >the
>>> >same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions
and
>>> >calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will
not
>>> >happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will
start
>>> >making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and
>>> few >between.
>>> >The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would
be
>>> >pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make
televisions
>>> >without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to
any
>>> >degree in my opinion.
>>> >
>>> >Hugh
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >----- Original Message -----
>>> >From: <[email protected]>
>>> >To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>>> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
>>> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>> >
>>> >Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have
the
>>> >ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation
product
>>> >to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular
product is
>>> >the next version of another product that company sells. We are
saying
>>> >that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I
just
>>> >don't see how it can be policed.
>>> >
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: HDTV Magazine On
Behalf
>>> >Of Richard
>>> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
>>> >To: HDTV Magazine
>>> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>> >
>>> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>> >
>>> >The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it
must
>>> >have the ATSC tuner.
>>> >
>>> >The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus
an
>>> >integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the
input
>>> >for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get
away
>>> >with it and you can see what we are up against.
>>> >
>>> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>> >
>>> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that >same
>>> >day) send an email to:
>>> >[email protected]
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>> >
>>> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> that >same
>>> >day) send an email to:
>>> >[email protected]
>>> >
>>> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>> >
>>> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>> >that same day) send an email to:
>>> >[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>>that same day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>that same day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Actually, for emergency workers, cell phones have
become more important than radio.

In Hugo's case, the cell towers were one of the first
things to be brought back up in order to support
rescue and emergency efforts.

--- Hugh Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Robert,
>
> Quite frankly I don't believe requiring tuners in
> televisions for national
> or local emergencies is the way the government
> should proceed. When
> hurricane Hugo came through here we were without
> electricity for 6 days and
> the battery powered radio was king. Television is
> good for warning about
> impending weather problems but I don't see it being
> much good after the fact
> as usually one loses electricity. And rabbit ears
> would not do me any good
> in my location. The radio, in all forms, is the
> emergency link.
>
> Hugh
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Wade Brown" <[email protected]>
> To: "HDTV Magazine"
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:38 AM
> Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > 7/29/2005 10:32am ct
> >
> > Doug,
> > Of course, radio would be vital; but I
> don't just mean the moments
> > after a national emergency or a localized attack.
> I'm talking about
> > various visual presentations which inform and
> educate in a crisis plus
> > people want their TV in such a case. There would
> probably still be
> > electricity and if there were none, various backup
> power scenarios are
> > available.
> >
> > But all that isn't the issue. The issue
> is, you plan for these
> > things. Ignoring the need for tuners and
> quibbling about which block on
> > the street has power or not misses the big
> picture. Nothing's perfect,
> > but it is in our country's best interest for most
> households to have
> > phones (911), radio, tv and soon, internet.
> Requiring tuners which are
> > necessary to receive OTA is prudent government
> policy. Get On Board.
> >
> > Best,
> > Robert
> >
> > At 10:10 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
> >>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >>
> >>Uh, perhaps by radio -- since none of the
> televisions in my home run on
> >>batteries.
> >>
> >>While radio isn't by any means perfect, the last
> source of information I'd
> >>trust in time of crisis is my local TV anchors.
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >>Doug
> >>Clearly Resolved Image & Sound
> >>
> >>Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
> >>Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993
> >>
> >>eMail: [email protected]
> >>Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com
> >>
> >>Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
> >>http://www.imagingscience.com
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: HDTV Magazine
> On Behalf
> Of
> >>Robert Wade Brown
> >>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:43
> >>To: HDTV Magazine
> >>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >>
> >>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >>
> >>7/29/2005 9:38am ct
> >>
> >> Hey, engineer-types out there.
> >>
> >> The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about
> freedom. It's about
> >>protecting the vast majority of customers who do
> not know they are
> >>not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV
> set and, even if
> >>they do know that, miss the implications of that.
> >>
> >> I've made this point before but no one
> seems to pick it
> >>up. It is now and always has been a national
> security issue for
> >>every home to have a TV set which can get stuff
> OTA. When the cable
> >>goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do
> people get security
> >>news? without OTA?
> >>
> >>Robert
> >>
> >>At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
> >> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >> >
> >> >They're just mandating the inclusion of
> equipment that has no practical
> >> >purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC,
> proprietary cable cards
> >> >and
> >> >satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to
> basic monitors via card
> >> >slots.
> >> >
> >> >Although it's a necessary evil to have the
> Government dictate the
> >> >direction
> >> >of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have
> the government designing
> >> >the
> >> >equipment. They can't seem to do what they're
> supposed to do so what
> >> >makes
> >> >us think they know what they're doing in this
> regard.
> >> >
> >> >LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma
> line, which I assume is
> >> >because it makes sense and are considerably
> less.
> >> >
> >> >Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00
> why put it in if it's
> >> >not
> >> >needed and whether we the consumer want it or
> not we're going to have to
> >>pay
> >> >for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to
> include it, they also
> >> >have
> >> >the right to profit from it.
> >> >
> >> >I don't believe this does anything for the
> advancement of DTV and
> >>ultimately
> >> >HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
> >> >
> >> >And manufactures and retailers who tell
> customers these TV's have built
> >>HDTV
> >> >tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has
> a built in HDTV tuners
> >> >but
> >> >then you have to explain to customers why in
> reality or practicality it
> >> >doesn't or it's useless.
> >> >
> >> >Let the government protect us from terrorist and
> let the consumers
> >> >direct
> >> >and guide the market place.
> >> >
> >> >------------------------------------
> >> >Vining Audio & Video
> >> >Daniel R. Vining
> >> >LLC Member
> >> >[email protected]
> >> >30 Spring Street
> >> >Danbury, CT 06810
> >> >tel: 203 790-8450
> >> >fax: 203 790-8450
> >> >mobile: 203 470-2667
> >> >www.viningaudio.com
> >> >------------------------------------
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: HDTV Magazine
> On Behalf
> >> >Of
> >> >Hugh Campbell
> >> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
> >> >To: HDTV Magazine
>
=== message truncated ===


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Robert,

Sorry but I can't get on board that bandwagon. As Hugh points out, radio is
the logical emergency communications medium.

Trying to justify TV tuners on the basis of emergency communications is a
non-starter. There may be other reasons for requiring tuners but emergency
communications is a singularly poor justification.

Like Amber Alerts, this is a contrived solution that is entirely
disproportionate to the problem it aims to solve -- just like so many other
half-baked government policies...

Regards,


Doug
Clearly Resolved Image & Sound

Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993

eMail: [email protected]
Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com

Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
http://www.imagingscience.com
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Robert Wade Brown
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:41
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

7/29/2005 10:39am ct

Hugh,

I don't get your point about no one runing out to put up an
OTA. I would imagine the run on rabbit ears would be amazing.

Robert

At 10:12 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Robert Wade Brown said:
>"I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
>up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
>every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA."
>
>And I said: "But the FCC will see to it in the interest of
>national security that televisions will have built-in tuners."
>
>And I have said that several times as it is the reason behind many
>FCC rules having to do with radio as well as television. Never mind
>that when cable or the sats fail no one will run out to put up an
>OTA. So perhaps the reasoning has to be re-thought in light of
>today's technology.
>
>Hugh
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Wade Brown"
><[email protected]>
>To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:43 AM
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>7/29/2005 9:38am ct
>>
>> Hey, engineer-types out there.
>>
>> The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's
>> about protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know
>> they are not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set
>> and, even if they do know that, miss the implications of that.
>>
>> I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
>> up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
>> every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the
>> cable goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get
>> security news? without OTA?
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
>>>purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
>>>satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
>>>slots.
>>>
>>>Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the
direction
>>>of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing
the
>>>equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what
makes
>>>us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
>>>
>>>LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
>>>because it makes sense and are considerably less.
>>>
>>>Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
>>>needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to
pay
>>>for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also
have
>>>the right to profit from it.
>>>
>>>I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
ultimately
>>>HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
>>>
>>>And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built
HDTV
>>>tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners
but
>>>then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
>>>doesn't or it's useless.
>>>
>>>Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
>>>and guide the market place.
>>>
>>>------------------------------------
>>>Vining Audio & Video
>>>Daniel R. Vining
>>>LLC Member
>>>[email protected]
>>>30 Spring Street
>>>Danbury, CT 06810
>>>tel: 203 790-8450
>>>fax: 203 790-8450
>>>mobile: 203 470-2667
>>>www.viningaudio.com
>>>------------------------------------
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>Hugh Campbell
>>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It
is
>>>not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
>>>tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
>>>version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
>>>then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
>>>same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
>>>calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
>>>happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
>>>making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few
between.
>>>The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
>>>pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
>>>without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
>>>degree in my opinion.
>>>
>>>Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: <[email protected]>
>>>To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
>>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>>
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
>>>ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
>>>to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
>>>the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
>>>that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
>>>don't see how it can be policed.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>>>Of Richard
>>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
>>>have the ATSC tuner.
>>>
>>>The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
>>>integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
>>>for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
>>>with it and you can see what we are up against.
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>>that same day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>>that same day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----


If we're assuming the power is out ... I imagine most of us will have to go
out and start our cars to listen to a radio

-- M. Shane Sturgeon



|---------+--------------------------------->
| | "Doug Weil" |
| | <[email protected]> |
| | Sent by: "HDTV |
| | Magazine" |
| | <hdtvmagazine_tips@ilo|
| | vehdtv.com> |
| | |
| | |
| | 07/29/2005 11:10 AM |
| | Please respond to |
| | "HDTV Magazine" |
|---------+--------------------------------->
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| |
| To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]> |
| cc: |
| Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE |
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Uh, perhaps by radio -- since none of the televisions in my home run on
batteries.

While radio isn't by any means perfect, the last source of information I'd
trust in time of crisis is my local TV anchors.

Regards,


Doug
Clearly Resolved Image & Sound

Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993

eMail: [email protected]
Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com

Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
http://www.imagingscience.com

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Robert Wade Brown
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:43
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

7/29/2005 9:38am ct

Hey, engineer-types out there.

The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are
not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if
they do know that, miss the implications of that.

I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable
goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get security
news? without OTA?

Robert

At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
>purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
>satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
>slots.
>
>Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the
direction
>of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing
the
>equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what
makes
>us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
>
>LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
>because it makes sense and are considerably less.
>
>Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
>needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to
pay
>for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also have
>the right to profit from it.
>
>I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
ultimately
>HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
>
>And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built
HDTV
>tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners but
>then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
>doesn't or it's useless.
>
>Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
>and guide the market place.
>
>------------------------------------
>Vining Audio & Video
>Daniel R. Vining
>LLC Member
>[email protected]
>30 Spring Street
>Danbury, CT 06810
>tel: 203 790-8450
>fax: 203 790-8450
>mobile: 203 470-2667
>www.viningaudio.com
>------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>Hugh Campbell
>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
>To: HDTV Magazine
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It
is
>not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
>tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
>version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
>then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
>same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
>calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
>happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
>making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few
between.
>The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
>pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
>without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
>degree in my opinion.
>
>Hugh
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[email protected]>
>To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
>ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
>to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
>the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
>that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
>don't see how it can be policed.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
>Of Richard
>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
>To: HDTV Magazine
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
>have the ATSC tuner.
>
>The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
>integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
>for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
>with it and you can see what we are up against.
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>day) send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>day) send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]





To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The cold war is over and as a veteran I do take national security seriously
but I believe OTA broadcast no longer has viable role to play in that regard
and DTV OTA which probably makes up less than 1/2 of 1 percent of the
viewing public will reach less people than someone sending up smoke signals
in the middle of Amazon rain forest.



------------------------------------
Vining Audio & Video
Daniel R. Vining
LLC Member
[email protected]
30 Spring Street
Danbury, CT 06810
www.viningaudio.com
------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Robert Wade Brown
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:38 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

7/29/2005 10:32am ct

Doug,
Of course, radio would be vital; but I don't just mean the
moments after a national emergency or a localized attack. I'm
talking about various visual presentations which inform and educate
in a crisis plus people want their TV in such a case. There would
probably still be electricity and if there were none, various backup
power scenarios are available.

But all that isn't the issue. The issue is, you plan for
these things. Ignoring the need for tuners and quibbling about which
block on the street has power or not misses the big
picture. Nothing's perfect, but it is in our country's best interest
for most households to have phones (911), radio, tv and soon,
internet. Requiring tuners which are necessary to receive OTA is
prudent government policy. Get On Board.

Best,
Robert

At 10:10 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>Uh, perhaps by radio -- since none of the televisions in my home run on
>batteries.
>
>While radio isn't by any means perfect, the last source of information I'd
>trust in time of crisis is my local TV anchors.
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Doug
>Clearly Resolved Image & Sound
>
>Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
>Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993
>
>eMail: [email protected]
>Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com
>
>Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
>http://www.imagingscience.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>Robert Wade Brown
>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:43
>To: HDTV Magazine
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>7/29/2005 9:38am ct
>
> Hey, engineer-types out there.
>
> The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
>protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are
>not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if
>they do know that, miss the implications of that.
>
> I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
>up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
>every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable
>goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get security
>news? without OTA?
>
>Robert
>
>At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
> >purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
> >satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
> >slots.
> >
> >Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the
direction
> >of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing
the
> >equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what
makes
> >us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
> >
> >LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
> >because it makes sense and are considerably less.
> >
> >Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
> >needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to
>pay
> >for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also
have
> >the right to profit from it.
> >
> >I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
>ultimately
> >HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
> >
> >And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built
>HDTV
> >tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners
but
> >then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
> >doesn't or it's useless.
> >
> >Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
> >and guide the market place.
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >Vining Audio & Video
> >Daniel R. Vining
> >LLC Member
> >[email protected]
> >30 Spring Street
> >Danbury, CT 06810
> >tel: 203 790-8450
> >fax: 203 790-8450
> >mobile: 203 470-2667
> >www.viningaudio.com
> >------------------------------------
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> >Hugh Campbell
> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
> >To: HDTV Magazine
> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It
is
> >not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
> >tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
> >version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
> >then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
> >same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
> >calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
> >happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
> >making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few
between.
> >The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
> >pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
> >without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
> >degree in my opinion.
> >
> >Hugh
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <[email protected]>
> >To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >
> >
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
> >ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
> >to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
> >the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
> >that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
> >don't see how it can be policed.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
> >Of Richard
> >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
> >To: HDTV Magazine
> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
> >have the ATSC tuner.
> >
> >The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
> >integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
> >for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
> >with it and you can see what we are up against.
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same
> >day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same
> >day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> >that same day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>day) send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]

To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

7/29/2005 5:02pm ct

Dan,
Let's just agree to disagree.
Best,
Robert

At 04:54 PM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>The cold war is over and as a veteran I do take national security seriously
>but I believe OTA broadcast no longer has viable role to play in that regard
>and DTV OTA which probably makes up less than 1/2 of 1 percent of the
>viewing public will reach less people than someone sending up smoke signals
>in the middle of Amazon rain forest.
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>Vining Audio & Video
>Daniel R. Vining
>LLC Member
>[email protected]
>30 Spring Street
>Danbury, CT 06810
>www.viningaudio.com
>------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>Robert Wade Brown
>Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:38 AM
>To: HDTV Magazine
>Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
>
>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>7/29/2005 10:32am ct
>
>Doug,
> Of course, radio would be vital; but I don't just mean the
>moments after a national emergency or a localized attack. I'm
>talking about various visual presentations which inform and educate
>in a crisis plus people want their TV in such a case. There would
>probably still be electricity and if there were none, various backup
>power scenarios are available.
>
> But all that isn't the issue. The issue is, you plan for
>these things. Ignoring the need for tuners and quibbling about which
>block on the street has power or not misses the big
>picture. Nothing's perfect, but it is in our country's best interest
>for most households to have phones (911), radio, tv and soon,
>internet. Requiring tuners which are necessary to receive OTA is
>prudent government policy. Get On Board.
>
>Best,
>Robert
>
>At 10:10 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >Uh, perhaps by radio -- since none of the televisions in my home run on
> >batteries.
> >
> >While radio isn't by any means perfect, the last source of information I'd
> >trust in time of crisis is my local TV anchors.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >
> >Doug
> >Clearly Resolved Image & Sound
> >
> >Business: +1 (618) 234-2865
> >Cell: +1 (314) 495-2993
> >
> >eMail: [email protected]
> >Web: http://www.clearlyresolved.com
> >
> >Affiliated with the Imaging Science Foundation
> >http://www.imagingscience.com
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> >Robert Wade Brown
> >Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:43
> >To: HDTV Magazine
> >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> >
> >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> >7/29/2005 9:38am ct
> >
> > Hey, engineer-types out there.
> >
> > The tuner inclusion issue is NOT about freedom. It's about
> >protecting the vast majority of customers who do not know they are
> >not getting a DTV capable tuner when they buy a TV set and, even if
> >they do know that, miss the implications of that.
> >
> > I've made this point before but no one seems to pick it
> >up. It is now and always has been a national security issue for
> >every home to have a TV set which can get stuff OTA. When the cable
> >goes out or the satellites are disabled, how do people get security
> >news? without OTA?
> >
> >Robert
> >
> >At 07:02 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote:
> > >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> > >
> > >They're just mandating the inclusion of equipment that has no practical
> > >purpose (for the majority). IMHO NTSC, ATSC, proprietary cable cards and
> > >satellite tuners (STB's) should all be add on to basic monitors via card
> > >slots.
> > >
> > >Although it's a necessary evil to have the Government dictate the
>direction
> > >of DTV, I don't think it's a good idea to have the government designing
>the
> > >equipment. They can't seem to do what they're supposed to do so what
>makes
> > >us think they know what they're doing in this regard.
> > >
> > >LG has just started shipping monitor only Plasma line, which I assume is
> > >because it makes sense and are considerably less.
> > >
> > >Whether these add in costs are $5.00 or $500.00 why put it in if it's not
> > >needed and whether we the consumer want it or not we're going to have to
> >pay
> > >for it and if the manufacturers are mandated to include it, they also
>have
> > >the right to profit from it.
> > >
> > >I don't believe this does anything for the advancement of DTV and
> >ultimately
> > >HDTV, actually I think this set us backwards.
> > >
> > >And manufactures and retailers who tell customers these TV's have built
> >HDTV
> > >tuners are misleading the public. Yeah, it has a built in HDTV tuners
>but
> > >then you have to explain to customers why in reality or practicality it
> > >doesn't or it's useless.
> > >
> > >Let the government protect us from terrorist and let the consumers direct
> > >and guide the market place.
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >Vining Audio & Video
> > >Daniel R. Vining
> > >LLC Member
> > >[email protected]
> > >30 Spring Street
> > >Danbury, CT 06810
> > >tel: 203 790-8450
> > >fax: 203 790-8450
> > >mobile: 203 470-2667
> > >www.viningaudio.com
> > >------------------------------------
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> > >Hugh Campbell
> > >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:22 PM
> > >To: HDTV Magazine
> > >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> > >
> > >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> > >
> > >Jason, I think you are making it more complicated than it really is. It
>is
> > >not a matter of version one vs version two, it is simply putting an ATSC
> > >tuner in anything that previously had an NTSC tuner.....regardless of the
> > >version. If you put NTSC tuners in your televisions, vcr's, dvd's, etc.
> > >then from a date certain you will be required to put an ATSC tuner in the
> > >same types of products. No mfg is going to stop making televisions and
> > >calling everything a monitor just to avoid including a tuner. Will not
> > >happen. Yes, there may be a small manufacturer somewhere who will start
> > >making only monitors with no turners but those will be far and few
>between.
> > >The cost will be so small to include the ATSC tuner that it would be
> > >pointless. Only if the FCC agrees to allow everyone to make televisions
> > >without tuners and still call them televisions will that happen to any
> > >degree in my opinion.
> > >
> > >Hugh
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: <[email protected]>
> > >To: "HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 PM
> > >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> > >
> > >
> > >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> > >
> > >Richard, you say "whether IT has an NTSC tuner", then "IT must have the
> > >ATSC tuner", but I'm questioning the relevance to one generation product
> > >to the next. In other words, who is to say that a particular product is
> > >the next version of another product that company sells. We are saying
> > >that if version 1.0 had ntsc, then 2.0 has to have atsc, right? I just
> > >don't see how it can be policed.
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
> > >Of Richard
> > >Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:17 PM
> > >To: HDTV Magazine
> > >Subject: Re: PROPOSED NEW DTV TUNER MANDATE
> > >
> > >----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> > >
> > >The key is whether or not it has an NTSC tuner. If it does then it must
> > >have the ATSC tuner.
> > >
> > >The question then in your view is will people buy a monitor versus an
> > >integrated. Consider that most folks still use channel 3 as the input
> > >for a sat box, cable box or TIVO and even DVD when they can get away
> > >with it and you can see what we are up against.
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> > >
> > >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>same
> > >day) send an email to:
> > >[email protected]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> > >
> > >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
>same
> > >day) send an email to:
> > >[email protected]
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> > >
> > >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> > >that same day) send an email to:
> > >[email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> >day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> >To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> >that same day) send an email to:
> >[email protected]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>day) send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>that same day) send an email to:
>[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]