----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
After so much back and forth, I'm glad this last part came out about the
history of analog subjectivity versus digital data. I have a lot of respect
for the audiophiles from way back who have an ear like Joseph described, and
the discriminating tastes of Rodolfo. I certainly don't want my comments to
be taken as any kind of attack on those years of learning and educating
others on the subtleties of audio (and video) appreciation.
It would help us all tremendously if we understood more about the protocol
used to get the data from one device to the next. If it is like UDP, where
packets are simply lost, it will be whole different world than if it is like
TCP, where packets are retransmitted and put back in order. If it turns out
to be as 'bulletproof' as a 5Gb/sec connection between a server and a
network switch, then the question of cable quality will be as relevant as it
is to networking (which isn't to say non-existent, but certainly not like
A/V).
So, Rodolpho and Bob, I would encourage your industry contacts to provide an
overview of how HDMI handles lost packets of data, especially to include a
basic comparison to UDP, TCP, etc. I am much better at arguing with facts
than opinions!
Jason
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:55 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Response to Bob regarding hi-end equipment and wires
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Bob,
If you are just concentrating only in digital HDMI make sure to stop bashing
everything else in the
audio/video chain using general terms.
My experiences with better cables extend to digital multi-channel audio, but
of course you might not
want to hear about them, they were not orange.
I can not invest more time on further exchanges, on wanting to help Eric
with his single line
question about HDMI cables, I ended up wasting hours of my time that did not
end up as productive as
I thought.
Now if you excuse me I have to get back to work.
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Bob Mankin
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:28 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Response to Bob regarding hi-end equipment and wires
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
Rodolfo,
In a nutshell, you're talking analog experiences in the midst of a digital
cable discussion.
I was not dissing high end components. Not sure where you got that. If money
were no object I'm sure I would own a few myself.
I would like to keep the discussion objective and limited to notes and facts
that apply to the DIGITAL domain or the exchange becomes a confusing mess
and none of us learn anything.
Thanks and regards,
Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 4:15 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Response to Bob regarding hi-end equipment and wires
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Bob,
>
> You are misunderstanding the quote of using wires with higher end
> equipment.
>
> What I meant, is, and I was clear before, please read carefully, if you
> have a problem of quality on
> a wire it will me more noticeable on a hi-end amp or pre/pro than on a
> $250 receiver; the lower
> quality performance of the receiver will mask the evidence of wire
> differences/imperfections, and of
> course that is, IF YOU have the ability to discern those differences.
>
> I do not know what equipment you have, but please do not get into dumping
> hi-end equipment. A small
> change on a wire or connection could make jump out X or Y wire, again, if
> you know what to
> see/listen for.
>
> Regarding you comment of bashing people that said they got better reds,
> etc. I got richer greens
> and blacks when I switched from a $100 Monster Cable to a $600 AudioQuest
> VGA that is almost 1-inch
> thick at it can barely bend behind the equipment, so please do not insult
> the ones that have
> actually tried it, found the difference, preferred it, and paid for it.
>
> And I better do not tell you the differences I found on sound with wires
> that are several times that
> price, that thanks to using hi-end equipment that allow me to notice and
> want those differences if
> the price tag is reasonable, and proportional to the improvement TO ME.
>
> Would I have noticed that with a $250 receiver, most probably not, with a
> top-of-the line receiver
> in the $5000 range, perhaps depending on the rest of the equipment (like
> speakers), with a $25000
> setup? you bet, is it worth? that is personal, but the difference exists,
> you made personal choices
> that perhaps would not allow you to notice the differences. All of us
> did, and we should all
> respect each other on those choices, because many have made those choices
> with care and knowing well
> what they were doing, not just buying pieces because Stereophile magicians
> felt in heaven when
> testing them.
>
> I believe that you are not open with the subject, perhaps you should try
> to respect other people
> actual experiences, equipment, etc. and leave room for tolerating other's
> choices because they found
> differences that were worth the extra money.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Bob Mankin
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:31 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: hdtvmagazine_tips Digest #1305
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
> Of
> > Richard Fisher
> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:48 PM
> > To: HDTV Magazine
> > Subject: Re: hdtvmagazine_tips Digest #1305
> >
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > DIGITAL? HA!
> >
> > While jitter was a new issue 25 some years ago it has been fully
> > documented and circuits redesigned with jitter correction applied by the
> > receiver and digital interfaces documenting the allowable level of
> > jitter and the requirement for correction.
> >
> > When it comes to digital things are far simpler and less expensive
> > regardless of what hi-end cable manufacturers want us to believe.
> >
>
> Richard, the kicker here is an earlier suggestion that somehow more
> expensive source/display components would benefit whereas "cheaper"
> components might not. If that is based on the presumption that design
> tolerances/practices are better on the more expensive gear, then in fact
> it's the cheaper components that would benefit from a more tightly
> controlled cable!
>
> It's about timing budgets, crosstalk and jitter thresholds. As long as you
> don't exceed them your signal transmission problem is, as you point out,
> much simpler.
>
> I'm hoping nobody goes into the "richer reds, blacker blacks" pitch for
> high
> end digital cables, because then we're over the top. Dunno, maybe the HDMI
> cable vendors already have?
>
> Bob
>
>
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