Samsung LED light source for DLP

Started by mmunster Jan 11, 2006 8 posts
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#1
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Hello everyone. Just back from CES. Did anyone see the Samsung LED
DLP light source? I found it quite interesting. Almost as bright as
the light bulb/color wheel type DLP. No more color wheel and they
are clamming that the light source will last up to 20,000
hours. Very impressive. The did not mention how much it would cost
to replace the LED's when they go down.

Any comments?

Marvin.



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#2
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My disappointment with this technology was that they are boasting a
"130% larger color gamut" than normal televisions. What that means
is that 30% of the colors it displays are not in the NTSC (or HD)
specified color space and are therefore not colors that you are
supposed to see in video. The problem seems to be a very odd green
primary, probably limited by the color that can be generated from an
LED light. It is worse in that it looks like about 10% of the
correct colorspace is not even covered by their "130%" so there is
much in the yellow/green area that they can not reproduce. Hopefully
in the future they will be able to improve the green color produced
by the LED, but then they would lose their "130% larger color gamut"
marketing material so it looks like we may be in store for another
round of inaccurate color reproduction.

It certainly appeared bright enough (although the grayscale on the
Samsung demo was glaringly blue so who knows what the output would be
like if you balanced it). I'm guessing the red may be on the dim
side and an accurate grayscale would require reducing the green/blue
and hence the total light output quite a bit. (All conjecture at this
point, I'm such a pessimist!).

Other than that, the lack of color wheel artifacts was very welcome.

On Jan 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Marvin Munster wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hello everyone. Just back from CES. Did anyone see the Samsung
> LED DLP light source? I found it quite interesting. Almost as
> bright as the light bulb/color wheel type DLP. No more color wheel
> and they are clamming that the light source will last up to 20,000
> hours. Very impressive. The did not mention how much it would
> cost to replace the LED's when they go down.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Marvin.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]

--

Steve Martin
Personal: [email protected]
Business: [email protected]
Smart Calibration, LLC
http://www.smartcalibration.com/




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#3
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Maybe they could also license "Ambilight" from Philips and really go to
town. Seriously though, when are such manufacturers going to grow up and
realize that standards exist for very good reasons? Did Samsung start out
making toasters, or staplers, or some such? They sure seem to have a
difficult time keeping video straight.

I'm amazed that Joe Kane, Joel Silver, Ray Soneira and their ilk have any
hair left on their heads. Actually I don't know what Ray Soneira looks
like, so he could be totally bald for all I know.

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Steve Martin
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 3:52 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Samsung LED light source for DLP


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

My disappointment with this technology was that they are boasting a
"130% larger color gamut" than normal televisions. What that means
is that 30% of the colors it displays are not in the NTSC (or HD)
specified color space and are therefore not colors that you are
supposed to see in video. The problem seems to be a very odd green
primary, probably limited by the color that can be generated from an
LED light. It is worse in that it looks like about 10% of the
correct colorspace is not even covered by their "130%" so there is
much in the yellow/green area that they can not reproduce. Hopefully
in the future they will be able to improve the green color produced
by the LED, but then they would lose their "130% larger color gamut"
marketing material so it looks like we may be in store for another
round of inaccurate color reproduction.

It certainly appeared bright enough (although the grayscale on the
Samsung demo was glaringly blue so who knows what the output would be
like if you balanced it). I'm guessing the red may be on the dim
side and an accurate grayscale would require reducing the green/blue
and hence the total light output quite a bit. (All conjecture at this
point, I'm such a pessimist!).

Other than that, the lack of color wheel artifacts was very welcome.

On Jan 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Marvin Munster wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hello everyone. Just back from CES. Did anyone see the Samsung
> LED DLP light source? I found it quite interesting. Almost as
> bright as the light bulb/color wheel type DLP. No more color wheel
> and they are clamming that the light source will last up to 20,000
> hours. Very impressive. The did not mention how much it would
> cost to replace the LED's when they go down.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Marvin.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]

--

Steve Martin
Personal: [email protected]
Business: [email protected]
Smart Calibration, LLC
http://www.smartcalibration.com/




To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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day) send an email to:
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#4
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----


Steve,
I read T.I.'s white paper on this technology (see the PDF attachment on the
first post at this site:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=51368 ). It's very
interesting, but I'm wondering about your comments re: the color gamut. On
page 4 of the white paper, there is a color gamut chart for the LED light
source that shows it completely surrounding the Rec. 709 color gamut on the
chart. I'm a layman with respect to these charts, so please bear with me,
but doesn't that mean it can reproduce any HDTV color?

With respect to your other concern about "colors not seen in video,"
wouldn't that be a non-issue, also, as it would only output colors in the
input signal?

No disrespect intended, I'm just trying to learn!

Brad

Brad Krehbiel, PE
Crown Center Redevelopment Corp.
Phone: 816-274-8564
Fax: 816-274-4567



Steve Martin
<steve@planomarti
ns.com> To
Sent by: "HDTV "HDTV Magazine"
Magazine" <[email protected]>
<hdtvmagazine_tip cc
[email protected]>
Subject
Re: Samsung LED light source for
01/11/2006 04:51 DLP
PM


Please respond to
"HDTV Magazine"
<hdtvmagazine_tip
[email protected]>






----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

My disappointment with this technology was that they are boasting a
"130% larger color gamut" than normal televisions. What that means
is that 30% of the colors it displays are not in the NTSC (or HD)
specified color space and are therefore not colors that you are
supposed to see in video. The problem seems to be a very odd green
primary, probably limited by the color that can be generated from an
LED light. It is worse in that it looks like about 10% of the
correct colorspace is not even covered by their "130%" so there is
much in the yellow/green area that they can not reproduce. Hopefully
in the future they will be able to improve the green color produced
by the LED, but then they would lose their "130% larger color gamut"
marketing material so it looks like we may be in store for another
round of inaccurate color reproduction.

It certainly appeared bright enough (although the grayscale on the
Samsung demo was glaringly blue so who knows what the output would be
like if you balanced it). I'm guessing the red may be on the dim
side and an accurate grayscale would require reducing the green/blue
and hence the total light output quite a bit. (All conjecture at this
point, I'm such a pessimist!).

Other than that, the lack of color wheel artifacts was very welcome.

On Jan 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Marvin Munster wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hello everyone. Just back from CES. Did anyone see the Samsung
> LED DLP light source? I found it quite interesting. Almost as
> bright as the light bulb/color wheel type DLP. No more color wheel
> and they are clamming that the light source will last up to 20,000
> hours. Very impressive. The did not mention how much it would
> cost to replace the LED's when they go down.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Marvin.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]

--

Steve Martin
Personal: [email protected]
Business: [email protected]
Smart Calibration, LLC
http://www.smartcalibration.com/




To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
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#5
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I'm going by the chart that was on the stand next to the display at
CES. In that one, the green primary was left enough that it cut off
part of the standard gamut.

Indeed if every primary was outside the specified gamut, it would be
possible to calibrate them to the appropriate colors by mixing in a
little of the other primaries to shift them (as we can do now on
current Samsung DLP's with the CCA mode in the service menus). But,
if the green primary was where it was on the chart, there would be no
way to get it to the right place.

Hopefully TI is right, Samsung is wrong with regard to what I saw at
CES.

On Jan 11, 2006, at 5:17 PM, Brad J Krehbiel wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>
> Steve,
> I read T.I.'s white paper on this technology (see the PDF
> attachment on the
> first post at this site:
> http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=51368 ). It's very
> interesting, but I'm wondering about your comments re: the color
> gamut. On
> page 4 of the white paper, there is a color gamut chart for the LED
> light
> source that shows it completely surrounding the Rec. 709 color
> gamut on the
> chart. I'm a layman with respect to these charts, so please bear
> with me,
> but doesn't that mean it can reproduce any HDTV color?
>
> With respect to your other concern about "colors not seen in video,"
> wouldn't that be a non-issue, also, as it would only output colors
> in the
> input signal?
>
> No disrespect intended, I'm just trying to learn!
>
> Brad
>
> Brad Krehbiel, PE
> Crown Center Redevelopment Corp.
> Phone: 816-274-8564
> Fax: 816-274-4567
>
>
>
> Steve Martin
> <steve@planomarti
>
> ns.com> To
> Sent by: "HDTV "HDTV Magazine"
> Magazine"
> <[email protected]>
>
> <hdtvmagazine_tip cc
> [email protected]>
>
> Subject
> Re: Samsung LED light source
> for
> 01/11/2006 04:51 DLP
> PM
>
>
> Please respond to
> "HDTV Magazine"
> <hdtvmagazine_tip
> [email protected]>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> My disappointment with this technology was that they are boasting a
> "130% larger color gamut" than normal televisions. What that means
> is that 30% of the colors it displays are not in the NTSC (or HD)
> specified color space and are therefore not colors that you are
> supposed to see in video. The problem seems to be a very odd green
> primary, probably limited by the color that can be generated from an
> LED light. It is worse in that it looks like about 10% of the
> correct colorspace is not even covered by their "130%" so there is
> much in the yellow/green area that they can not reproduce. Hopefully
> in the future they will be able to improve the green color produced
> by the LED, but then they would lose their "130% larger color gamut"
> marketing material so it looks like we may be in store for another
> round of inaccurate color reproduction.
>
> It certainly appeared bright enough (although the grayscale on the
> Samsung demo was glaringly blue so who knows what the output would be
> like if you balanced it). I'm guessing the red may be on the dim
> side and an accurate grayscale would require reducing the green/blue
> and hence the total light output quite a bit. (All conjecture at this
> point, I'm such a pessimist!).
>
> Other than that, the lack of color wheel artifacts was very welcome.
>
> On Jan 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Marvin Munster wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Hello everyone. Just back from CES. Did anyone see the Samsung
>> LED DLP light source? I found it quite interesting. Almost as
>> bright as the light bulb/color wheel type DLP. No more color wheel
>> and they are clamming that the light source will last up to 20,000
>> hours. Very impressive. The did not mention how much it would
>> cost to replace the LED's when they go down.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>> Marvin.
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
>> that same day) send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>
> --
>
> Steve Martin
> Personal: [email protected]
> Business: [email protected]
> Smart Calibration, LLC
> http://www.smartcalibration.com/
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted
> that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]

--

Steve Martin
Personal: [email protected]
Business: [email protected]
Smart Calibration, LLC
http://www.smartcalibration.com/




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#6
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The TI CIE chart has an odd "bump" on the right side (around 570 nm)
that cause "their" curve to NOT clip the greens. I don't understand how
that can be done (a little marketing magic maybe). I suspect that is
the difference between curves.

The real problem here (and with the other newer technologies) is that
the primaries are way out of line with standard primary coordinates.
This is OK if the display provides a means to correctly map the colors,
AND provides the correct default settings to put the colors in the right
place - but in the pursuit of "brighter, flashier colors" we know that
this will not happen!

Dave Hancock

>>Indeed if every primary was outside the specified gamut, it would be
possible to calibrate them to the appropriate colors by mixing in a
little of the other primaries to shift them (as we can do now on
current Samsung DLP's with the CCA mode in the service menus). But, if
the green primary was where it was on the chart, there would be no way
to get it to the right place.

Hopefully TI is right, Samsung is wrong with regard to what I saw at CES.



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#7
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I saw the AKAI version of the LED based DLP RPTV (PT42DL27L) at CES. The image was good but definitely got darker at wider angles (apparently by design since the LEDs aren't as bright as a bulb even through a color wheel). I like the idea of the larger color gamut, especially if also used for a computer. The $1799 price for a 42" 1080p (using Wobulation) is also very tempting.

--Dan

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#8
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----


I noticed that "bump" also after I went back and looked at the chart again.
There's also one on the axis between green and blue. What's up with that?
Can the marketing department create colors that aren't there?

Brad

Brad Krehbiel, PE
Crown Center Redevelopment Corp.
Phone: 816-274-8564
Fax: 816-274-4567



dhancock@rocheste
r.rr.com
Sent by: "HDTV To
Magazine" "HDTV Magazine"
<hdtvmagazine_tip <[email protected]>
[email protected]> cc

Subject
01/11/2006 07:23 Re: Samsung LED light source for
PM DLP


Please respond to
"HDTV Magazine"
<hdtvmagazine_tip
[email protected]>






----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The TI CIE chart has an odd "bump" on the right side (around 570 nm)
that cause "their" curve to NOT clip the greens. I don't understand how
that can be done (a little marketing magic maybe). I suspect that is
the difference between curves.

The real problem here (and with the other newer technologies) is that
the primaries are way out of line with standard primary coordinates.
This is OK if the display provides a means to correctly map the colors,
AND provides the correct default settings to put the colors in the right
place - but in the pursuit of "brighter, flashier colors" we know that
this will not happen!

Dave Hancock

>>Indeed if every primary was outside the specified gamut, it would be
possible to calibrate them to the appropriate colors by mixing in a
little of the other primaries to shift them (as we can do now on
current Samsung DLP's with the CCA mode in the service menus). But, if
the green primary was where it was on the chart, there would be no way
to get it to the right place.

Hopefully TI is right, Samsung is wrong with regard to what I saw at CES.



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day) send an email to:
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