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Full review
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5217
Richard Fisher
www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
James Healy wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo are about talking about the Zenith BVB318? So am I to understand
> that this model will output an unprotected HD signal through its component
> outputs but not its DVI?
>
>
>
> On 7/23/05 2:13 AM, "Richard" <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>OPDV971H
>>http://www.oppodigital.com/
>>
>>Bravo D1 and D2
>>
>>There are likely others.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Richard Fisher
>>www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
>>A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>>
>>Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Richard,
>>>
>>>Could you please provide which US market DVD players are capable to output an
>>>unprotected (free of
>>>HDCP) HD signal on its DVI output when reading a protected DVD (other than
>>>the Zenith that flew
>>>under the radar using component outputs)?
>>>
>>>Best Regards,
>>>
>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>Richard
>>>Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 6:43 PM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: Scalar backdoor
>>>
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Rodolfo,
>>>
>>>Sorry for not being clear.
>>>
>>>I am talking about movies too, not just calibration discs. The player
>>>cannot be HDCP compliant for this to work. Typically that means it has a
>>>DVI only connector.
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Richard Fisher
>>>www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
>>>A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>>>
>>>Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>>Richard,
>>>>
>>>>The capability of input HDMI and output component analog when transmitting
>>>>unprotected content (in
>>>>other words, without HDCP) is there, I agree, but is of limited use, as you
>>>>said, calibration DVDs
>>>>and the like, and will be more limited over time.
>>>>
>>>>Regular protected DVDs pass their protection system as HDCP over an HDMI
>>>>upconversion output. Hi
>>>>Def DVDs will do the same (if not worse, with the use of keys that can
>>>>change anytime). The
>>>>broadcast flag (if/when resuscitated) will do the same on OTA content. The
>>>>MPAA has been looking
>>>>for something even stronger than the Flag for premium non-OTA content like
>>>>HBO, one known method
>>>
>>>is
>>>
>>>
>>>>by instructing the HD-STB to trigger HDCP over HDMI or DVI outputs when the
>>>>program tells the box
>>>>that is protected, closing both a) the analog hole, and b) the use of a
>>>>scaler conversion of HDMI
>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>
>>>>analog due to having HDCP in the signal (triggered on the HD-STB).
>>>>
>>>>Therefore, only content that might be unappealing would not be protected, on
>>>>those you could
>>>>certainly use the scaler to convert HDMI to analog and send the signal to a
>>>>legacy HDTV.
>>>>
>>>>I understood that Howard was interested on a solution that would strip HDCP
>>>>from the HDMI
>>>>connection, so the transcoder in the scaler solution would only need to
>>>>convert HDMI to analog
>>>>component, as it would be on a calibration DVD, but with a movie content.
>>>>
>>>>The base problem is that stripping for non-display purposes is not legal, if
>>>>a manufacturer do
>>>
>>>such
>>>
>>>
>>>>product it would loose the HDMI/HDCP license and would certainly get sued
>>>>big time. Loosing that
>>>>kind of license on a world where any HD product uses HDMI would be like
>>>>closing the business.
>>>>
>>>>Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>>Richard
>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:08 PM
>>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>>Subject: Re: Scalar backdoor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>>Rodolfo,
>>>>
>>>>If the HDCP is not triggered by the source then yes, you can output
>>>>analog. Even those that require HDCP will work provided the disc does
>>>>not trigger it such as most if not all of the calibration DVDs.
>>>>
>>>>As for the MPAA and talking about players that circumvent their wishes I
>>>>say oh well, let's talk about them. Since the MPAA declines providing an
>>>>outlet then they leave us with no choice but to go underground, black
>>>>market. I don't really want to buy an Asian market player but will if I
>>>>am left with no alternatives. They are forcing honest people like myself
>>>>to do these things, not the other way around.
>>>>
>>>>I am sure many with a passion for excellence would glady pay an
>>>>additional $250-500 to be licenced for analog outputs, keep what we have
>>>>and fully depreciate the initial expense of those systems or in the case
>>>>of G90 owners and the rest, keep 'em running.
>>>>
>>>>Richard Fisher
>>>>www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
>>>>A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>>>>
>>>>Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>
>>>>>Richard,
>>>>>
>>>>>Your comment "I can drive my Lumagen scaler digitally bypassing the A/D
>>>>>conversion for processing
>>>>>and spit it out any I want analog."
>>>>>
>>>>>Are you saying the scaler inputs DVI/HDCP and outputs component analog HD?
>>>>>
>>>>>To my knowledge the Lumagen scalers transcode from component to DVI, but
>>>>>not the other way around,
>>>>>removing HDCP outside a display device is exactly against the purpose of
>>>>>the invention (and this
>>>>>responds Howard's question).
>>>>>
>>>>>I know of a couple of products that shortcut this capability, one with
>>>>>secret codes within a DVD
>>>>>player, but I rather not discuss these here, especially when Dale is
>>>>>inviting the MPAA to openly
>>>>>discuss their side of this business.
>>>>>
>>>>>Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>>>Richard
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 5:19 PM
>>>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>>>Subject: Re: Scalar backdoor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>
>>>>>Along with copy protect...
>>>>>
>>>>>I will do what ever it takes to provide HD to my display including
>>>>>illegal if available. I suggested nearly two years ago that these
>>>>>products be licenced and those truly interested would go through the
>>>>>hassle and pay the price. They, whom ever they are, do not wish to allow
>>>>>that so we are left with no choice but to do things illegal.
>>>>>
>>>>>There are DVI products out there that do not follow the copy protect
>>>>>stuff for HDCP, they are not HDCP compliant. In one customers home it
>>>>>was a Samsung HDTV sat receiver, new product, working via DVI to a
>>>>>non-compliant display. This fella also just bought the new flagship
>>>>>Denon DVD player which required it and it did not work. On the other
>>>>>hand I am reviewing a new DVD player that is not HDCP compliant either
>>>>>and based on the review from Home Theater Secrets it should be a winner!
>>>>>With that I can drive my Lumagen scaler digitally bypassing the A/D
>>>>>conversion for processing and spit it out any I want analog.
>>>>>
>>>>>You can find non-compliant HDCP products from Asia for DVD. As suggested
>>>>>check out the AVS forum for HDTV receivers that are not following HDCP
>>>>>for what ever reason.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Richard Fisher
>>>>>www.HDLibrary.com Published by Tech Services
>>>>>A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>>>>>
>>>>>Howard A. Blackstead wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does anyone know if there are scalars which might accept (even 1080i)
>>>>>>HDMI input and output component signals?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am also wondering about the technical feasibility of modifying an
>>>>>>inexpensive HD receiver with HDMI inputs to extract the component
>>>>>>signals for connection to a serious display which has component only
>>>>>>inputs. (Discarding the small display, or perhaps acquiring the
>>>>>>necessary circuit cards as parts.) Since nearly all display systems must
>>>>>>produce an internal analog signal, it seems possible that any copy
>>>>>>protection system could be defeated with such an approach. The
>>>>>>limitation may be that low quality digital-analog converters (DACs) are
>>>>>>likely to be part of an inexpensive HDMI display. On the other hand, one
>>>>>>might be able to substitute higher quality DACs...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would guess that many early adopters would be willing to pay up to
>>>>>>$2000 for a HDMI to component converter, in order to preserve their
>>>>>>investment in a big screen display.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Howard in South Bend
>>>>>>
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