----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> Regarding upconversion
> Since I'm only talking about 1080i -> 1080p, it seems as if a
> simple line double is all that's needed.
Although not documented in their reviews, the Panasonic PTAE1000 (LCD)
excelled with 1080i scaling while the BenQ W10000 (DLP) was filtering
the vertical response. That was a simplistic test with patterns, not
film or video content. No conversion was ever simple because the signal
can be either native video or native film. Motion adaptive versus 2/3
pull down cadence processing and proper detection.
So far I don't mind the filtering because the HD that I am getting is
not perfect and that filtering helps hide some of the artifacts. LOL The
Panasonic LCD is not a data grade monitor, lacks a detail response, so
it naturally does some filtering regardless of passing the pattern test.
On the other hand with 1080p PC, HD disc or PS3 gaming I seek a detailed
1:1 pixel mapped data grade response for the ultimate in detail because
they can deliver it without the artifacts of broadcast services. The
BenQ serves that purpose with aplomb.
The key as always; can the internal scaler be bypassed. If so then there
is no need to worry because you have not limited your options. In
general, most current 1080p displays allow internal scaler bypassing but
without a review confirming that, buyer beware, because products are
like a box of chocolates, never know what you'll unexpectedly find.
As always, if ultimate performance is your bag you should work with your
favorite ISF calibrator to make sure the product(s) will meet the
desired application and receive a calibration in your home.
Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified
Jason Burroughs wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Thanks Richard - that is *exactly* the feedback I was looking for.
> Sounded too good to be true, and now that I know it does make a
> difference, I'll stick to my original plan of getting a more robust
> receiver.
>
> Regarding upconversion - if I have a Dish 1080i satellite box and a
> 1080i cable box, BUT the receiver can't upconvert DVI/HDMI to 1080p over
> the HDMI (for a future 1080p monitor), then my TV would have to do the
> upconversion when it receives the 1080i signal. Would I be better
> waiting for a future receiver that can do HDMI upconversion from 1080i
> to 1080p, or assume that the TV's upconversion is going to be just as
> good. Since I'm only talking about 1080i -> 1080p, it seems as if a
> simple line double is all that's needed. I don't have nor plan to have
> any 720p or lower devices (no SD DVD, no VCR, etc). Am I overthinking this?
>
> Final (interim) configuration: PS3 via HDMI to STR-DA5300ES; Dish
> receiver via HDMI to STR-DA5300ES; STR-DA5300ES via HDMI (thru HD Fury)
> to RGB/VGA input on TV, all set for 1080i.
>
> Future upgrade: 1080p LCD monitor
>
> Hope this is useful information for others on the list. Surely there are
> lots of us out there wanting to use these new HD audio formats, but not
> sure what all is required to make it work.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jason
>
> Richard Fisher wrote:
>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> > I just pass LPCM to the receiver, and as
>> > long as it supports any format of HDMI (1.1, 1.3, etc), it will give me
>> > the same quality audio.
>>
>> Don't want to burst your bubble but if top performance is your goal...
>>
>> The HD-A35 provided my first opportunity to directly compare the
>> native bitstream to converted PCM. While PCM decoding should be
>> identical in theory, the reality is upon entering your A/V receiver it
>> will be sliced and diced yet again so it can be applied to your room
>> correction and speaker setup which is part and parcel of any HT sound
>> system. One of the annoying attributes of analog multi-channel inputs
>> was the fact that you could not typically perform those functions at
>> the receiver and the player lacked the in depth adjustments as a
>> substitute. Those receivers that could perform those functions had to
>> convert the analog back into digital for the slicing and dicing adding
>> another process to degrade the sound. By being able to pass on the
>> native bitstream from the disc to the receiver, processing steps get
>> bypassed providing the potential for superior performance.
>>
>> Based on testing, that is what my ears experienced. The difference was
>> not dramatic but it did exist. The best description is slightly more
>> of everything as if a slight veil had been removed between my ears and
>> the speakers. Like SD DVD, if you are looking for the best in sound,
>> native bitstream decoding by your A/V receiver is the future!
>>
>>
>> Richard Fisher
>> ISF and HAA certified
>> HD Library is provided by Techservicesusa.com
>> Publisher
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>>
>> Jason Burroughs wrote:
>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> Thanks Richard. From your comment, and the research I've done, sounds
>>> like I don't need a receiver that does *any* decoding of these new fancy
>>> formats. As long as the blu-ray device does the decoding (and the PS3
>>> now decodes every one of them), I just pass LPCM to the receiver, and as
>>> long as it supports any format of HDMI (1.1, 1.3, etc), it will give me
>>> the same quality audio. I may opt for a 1.3b receiver, to be more future
>>> proof, but doesn't sound like it is a requirement at this time.
>>>
>>> Looks like I need the HD Fury, any HDMI receiver, and the PS3 to have a
>>> 1080i version of blu-ray with the advanced audio formats. Fill in the
>>> gaps if there are any.
>>>
>>> BTW - With the HTPC, which outputs analog 7.1, I didn't even need an
>>> HDMI receiver - however, the version of PowerDVD software that can
>>> output these formats over analog in full quality (as opposed to being
>>> cut down to 48khz/16-bit) is not out for at least a few months.
>>>
>>> I also agree about RGB vs component (PbPrY) - the quality of my RGB
>>> connection on the pioneer is better than the standard component video
>>> input.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> Richard Fisher wrote:
>>>
>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>> > Actually, I'm finding out that the receiver will not take in HDMI,
>>>> then
>>>> > output 1080i analog component.
>>>>
>>>> As expected.
>>>>
>>>> To take full advantage of all features available today and retain
>>>> full convenience you need an HDMI input.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to keep the TV
>>>> HDfury - HDMI to RGBHV adapter, HDCP compliant to 1080p
>>>>
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8497
>>>>
>>>> The Pioneers may have received rave reviews but... the 480p side
>>>> color decoder is wacked out. The 1080i side uses signal processing
>>>> to create artificial detail and when you go RGB you will lose that
>>>> although RGB is far closer to high fidelity and the color decoder is
>>>> bypassed.
>>>>
>>>> To get the most out of any Blu-ray or HD DVD player requires HDMI.
>>>> Please check my reviews for some of the ins and outs of going analog
>>>> video with HDMI audio.
>>>>
>>>> Panasonic DMP-BD10A Blu-ray and SD DVD player
>>>> LG BH100 Universal HD DVD/Blu-ray Player
>>>>
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/author.php? ... sher&id=20
>>>>
>>>> And from a soon to be released HD DVD review...
>>>> Only those with a display that does not support HDCP HDMI or DVI
>>>> need to take note of this. For those upgrading a legacy home theater
>>>> system using analog video connections and starting on the audio side
>>>> with HDMI audio you are going to have some problems just like other
>>>> HD disc players. If you intend to use the HDMI connection for audio
>>>> and HD DVD you will be pleased to know that you will get full HD
>>>> audio support via bitstream or multi-channel. Unfortunately with SD
>>>> DVD you will get sound but will be left out in the cold with no
>>>> image at all. The fix for that is to use the optical SD digital
>>>> audio output and when you switch your receiver to that input that
>>>> should release the HDMI turning on the analog video again. As I was
>>>> checking out how this would work for you I also found another
>>>> operational bug; to get the bitstream from SD DVD I had to go into
>>>> the setup menu and change the SPDIF output to that yet when I
>>>> switched back to HD DVD the receiver would only indicate PCM rather
>>>> than PCM 96khz requiring me to go back into the setup menu and
>>>> change the SPDIF back to PCM to get PCM 96khz on the receiver. While
>>>> SD DVD allows you to stop, make changes and return back to where you
>>>> were HD DVD always forces a reboot if you press the stop key. The
>>>> following is a frustrated general statement based on this and other
>>>> reviews. This is yet another firmware or design flaw that could be
>>>> overcome by allowing the product to automatically switch to the
>>>> proper settings depending on the end users application. There is no
>>>> reason these players cannot output HD audio via HDMI via bitstream
>>>> or PCM with an HD disc at 1080i or 720p analog video and switch to
>>>> SD bitstream or PCM at 480p analog video with SD DVD allowing those
>>>> in transition to get the maximum benefits from both formats on the
>>>> same player without additional setup effort, A/V switching or
>>>> another player.
>>>>
>>>> Richard Fisher
>>>> ISF and HAA certified
>>>> HD Library is provided by Techservicesusa.com
>>>> Publisher
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>>>>
>>>> Jason Burroughs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I'm finding out that the receiver will not take in HDMI,
>>>>> then output 1080i analog component. This is a key sticking point,
>>>>> because without that, I can't do high definition audio either. The
>>>>> receiver I have doesn't do HDMI, or decode the new formats. That
>>>>> means I need the source (PS3) to do the decoding - but the PS3
>>>>> doesn't support analog output like the home theater computer does.
>>>>> This puts me in a quandary: with the PS3, I need to pass the video
>>>>> over component video, but the audio over HDMI (assuming I replace
>>>>> the receiver, which necessitates replacing the TV).
>>>>>
>>>>> This strange set of circumstances/gotchas leads me to believe that
>>>>> I can't enjoy high definition audio (Dolby Plus and TrueHD, DTS-HD
>>>>> and MA) without replacing my receiver AND monitor.
>>>>>
>>>>> This would seem to be a pretty big limitation for the PS3 - the
>>>>> inability to use the HD audio tracks on non-HDMI equipped TVs
>>>>> (regardless of the receiver).
>>>>>
>>>>> From the searching I've done, I can't find any blu-ray player with
>>>>> analog outputs. And, even in the home theater computer space, the
>>>>> audio from blu-ray is downsampled to 48khz/16bit! This is something
>>>>> I'm just finding out.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I guess my question is: without an HDMI display, is it possible
>>>>> to use high definition audio tracks? Can I use component video
>>>>> outputs, but still use HDMI to get the audio to the receiver
>>>>> simultaneously?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard Fisher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Does anyone have feedback on the Sony STR-DA5300ES receiver? It
>>>>>> seems to
>>>>>> > have all the features I need, including the ability to take in all
>>>>>> > sources and output 1080i over component to my TV (not ready to
>>>>>> replace
>>>>>> > that one quite yet).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you suggesting the receiver will be able to scale all sources
>>>>>> to 1080i analog video?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > My speakers are 100 watts - will a receiver that is 120 watts be
>>>>>> an issue?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Any reason NOT to use a PS3 as my blu-ray player?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the safest player out there but only the future knows if it
>>>>>> will support bit stream audio directly from the disc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Fisher
>>>>>> ISF and HAA certified
>>>>>> HD Library is provided by Techservicesusa.com
>>>>>> Publisher
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason Burroughs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm planning my next generation of home theater, and seeking
>>>>>>> advice on various parts along the way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Current system:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pioneer Elite Pro-520HD 53" rear projector TV
>>>>>>> Sony STR-DA5ES 6.1 receiver
>>>>>>> Sony 1 channel 100w amp (for 7th channel)
>>>>>>> Paradigm 7.1 channel speaker system (Phantom v3, CC270, ADP170,
>>>>>>> PD10)
>>>>>>> Custom-built home theater computer
>>>>>>> Dish HD-DVR
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After spending 7 years with some form of HTPC, I'm throwing in
>>>>>>> the towel. The variety of buggy software, lack of standards, and
>>>>>>> a million other reasons has led me to purchase a PS3 as a blu-ray
>>>>>>> player, and upgrade my receiver to handle the new audio formats.
>>>>>>> These are my first upgrades I'm considering.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Questions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any reason NOT to use a PS3 as my blu-ray player? Anything else
>>>>>>> comparable in price/quality? I don't play video games very often,
>>>>>>> so I don't consider the gaming aspect as a factor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone have feedback on the Sony STR-DA5300ES receiver? It
>>>>>>> seems to have all the features I need, including the ability to
>>>>>>> take in all sources and output 1080i over component to my TV (not
>>>>>>> ready to replace that one quite yet). I've read some great
>>>>>>> reviews, aside from some HDMI handshake issues, which seem to be
>>>>>>> largely resolved with the latest firmware upgrade. Cheapest price
>>>>>>> I'm finding is $900 including shipping.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My speakers are 100 watts - will a receiver that is 120 watts be
>>>>>>> an issue?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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