Theta Casablanca

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----


Richard,

They always said they were working on it, for the past 150 years, and giving
excuses that blamed others, such as HDMI specs not ready, and the wind
blowing in the wrong direction.

Here is some bluffing: http://www.thetadigital.com/faqhdmi.htm

They could have gone with HDMI 1.0 many years ago, and upgrade the chip and
add hi-bit audio decoders via firmware as HMDI progressed toward 1.3 in June
2006.

It was rumored recently that Theta was acquired by another company; I am
expecting their management to be replaced.

Quite frankly, if it would not be for its very hi-end sound quality and
accurate DACs I would have replaced the pre/pro a few years ago already.

But even so: with What? At that level of sound quality? Not even Krell and
the other big fishes can surpass that clean sound on the DACs.

Considering that the pre/pro itself was running in the $17K range when I got
mine several years ago, I would not expect any update for this feature to be
reasonable in cost though, any simple update from Theta runs in the
thousands easily.

The HDMI upgrade could certainly cost above and beyond the typical $5-7K
anyone pays for a brand new top of the line A/V receiver from any prime
manufacturer.

That estimate is considering that many Casablanca units were requested by
owners with a mix of DACs when special ordered.

Many do not have the optional hi-resolution DACs in the surround channels.
Who wants to pay several thousand dollars for sophisticated DACs on each
surround channel?

Most people put the large hi-end DACs investment on the front 3 channels,
and put normal DACs on the surrounds (normal for Theta is very hi-end on
competitors in perspective).

Additionally, depending on the version of Casablanca this person has, one
should consider the extra cost of upgrading from Casablanca I to II to III
before one could even do the HDMI upgrade.

And also upgrade its operating system, which can be operated from a
computer/laptop, remember the CB design is like a modular computer.

I am on CB II level and will need to go to III, that by itself will cost me
a vacation on Europe, I will keep you posted, but I better unload my gun
before I contact them again.

Good luck

Best Regards,

Rodolfo


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 9:58 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Theta Casablanca

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I know Rodolfo and another are owners. I have a new customer with one
about two years old and we have two questions.

1)HDMI HD audio support

2)HDMI switching

Do they support either or?

Thanks

Richard Fisher
ISF and HAA certified
HD Library is provided by Techservicesusa.com
Publisher http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php



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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

At 02:03 AM 12/28/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>They always said they were working on it, for the past 150 years, and giving
>excuses that blamed others, such as HDMI specs not ready, and the wind
>blowing in the wrong direction.
>
>Here is some bluffing: http://www.thetadigital.com/faqhdmi.htm
....

Rodolfo (Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc. to you and all others
reading this),

I feel your pain. The positions taken by some manufacturers of what
is generally considered "premium" equipment has, in my opinion, gone
beyond a cautious approach regarding HDMI to a totally unreasonable
and unacceptable one. I myself am (was) a big fan of Lexicon
products (also considered relatively high end although not quite in
the same class as some of the "salon" manufacturers) but I feel
totally let down by Harman's (the parent company of Lexicon) failure
to offer HDMI solutions rather than excuses. Company politics and
restructuring are probably factors in all this. I jumped ship to
Denon products a couple of years ago when it became plain that
Lexicon was cheating its customers in this regard. Yes, there is
some great audio still being produced by some expensive products but
they have clearly gone the way of the dodo bird on this one. Let's
be realistic. HD audio codecs available via mainstream equipment is
basically as good or better than the "premium" sound that used to be
the province of high end equipment. The people who would argue
otherwise are those who still are extolling the virtues of
vinyl. While I can appreciate their basic arguments I still have to
temper their position with the realities and economies of today's equipment.

It is also a similar situation with the video side of things. For
years the CRT (including its big brother the CRT-based front
projector) has been considered the ultimate, continuous, deep black
viewing experience. No question there. But with this comes the
baggage: weight, maintenance and component degradation over
time. While some digital technologies might share some of the
component degradation over time (usually remedied by changing the
bulb for now) there is no question that CRTs have become the
dinosaurs of today's Home Theater Experience. The latest digital
projectors (front and back) have deep blacks, etc. that truly rival
the CRTs. And with the quest for bigger and bigger pictures a
standalone CRT display will soon be a memory to anyone except the
extremely faithful. I'm glad that you pointed out that today's RPMs
are becoming this generation's (it's too early to say "this
century's") CRT. Best bang for the buck, but try to get one before
they are no longer manufactured. That's exactly what I have been
telling people myself. With Sony's recent announcement that they are
leaving the RPM (SXRD) market to concentrate on flat panels and front
projectors (even though they are currently #2 by their own admission
in a dwindling RPM market) I felt a sense of deja vu. As you may
recall, I've owned an HP MD5880n DLP RPM for several years now and
last year HP dropped RPMs in favor of Plasma and LCD "flat screens"
for the same reason as Sony. I own a plasma set and several LCD sets
in addition to my HP RPM (and a JVC DLA-RS1 FP) and I still consider
the HP picture to be a match for any of these. In fact, even with
all my out of the box problems with HP (the first unit was DOA and
the replacement has worked perfectly for two years) I'm still
extremely happy watching "normal" HD TV on this 1080p set on a
regular basis when I don't want to resort to the 110" screen for FP viewing.

I find it interesting that I'm now advising people to treat RPMs as
they used to treat CRTS. To wit, if you have the room for them, they
are currently the best bang for the buck. Yes, big screen plasma and
LCD prices will continue to fall, but in the 58" and up range they
are still not competitively priced with RPMs. And some of the RPMs I
saw at Cedia in 2007 continue to amaze me. A neighbor just installed
a 58" JVC LCOS RPM that not only looks beautiful but has a depth of
only 11.5 inches and literally can be hung on a wall with an optional bracket.

RPM brands are diminishing for sure, but they still make good choices
if they fit a person's situation. And since many of their parts are
in common with FPs from the major manufacturers (and even among
them!) I wouldn't be overly concerned with parts availability for at
least a decade if not more.


-- RAF


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo, you are just going to love this, unload all guns in the house.
Form that customer...

I just talked with Theta.
Theta has the new upgrade DAC cards with XLR connectors for balance outputs
that I have wanted and works from new blue ray format through the RCA
connector digital output from the blue ray player. This will cost me
$6,000.00 and through away my old 3 DAC cards that cost me $6,000.00. They
have not done the sound input from the HDMI connector because they feel the
standards are not done yet. They think my sound quality will be the same or
better using the RCA digital input I now use. But when they do finish the
HDMI connector software then I can just up grade that card and software. My
3- new DAC cards will not need changed again. The only reason to use the
HDMI connections is to change video and audio sources through the Theta. I
currently switch sound and video separately for now.

Right now all my AMP's use XLR connectors for inputs, but my Theta III uses
RCA outputs. With changing the DAC cards all my connectors will match
correctly and give me the best sound through all balanced outputs/inputs and
is compatible with blue ray format from its Digital outputs.

LOL
HD audio codecs from HD disc down converted to an SD digital out, DD,
sounds as good or better than HD audio because their DACs are the best
since sliced bread?

Richard Fisher
ISF and HAA certified
HD Library is provided by Techservicesusa.com
Publisher http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php

Dr Robert A Fowkes wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> At 02:03 AM 12/28/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> They always said they were working on it, for the past 150 years, and
>> giving
>> excuses that blamed others, such as HDMI specs not ready, and the wind
>> blowing in the wrong direction.
>>
>> Here is some bluffing: http://www.thetadigital.com/faqhdmi.htm
>
> ....
>
> Rodolfo (Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc. to you and all others
> reading this),
>
> I feel your pain. The positions taken by some manufacturers of what is
> generally considered "premium" equipment has, in my opinion, gone beyond
> a cautious approach regarding HDMI to a totally unreasonable and
> unacceptable one. I myself am (was) a big fan of Lexicon products (also
> considered relatively high end although not quite in the same class as
> some of the "salon" manufacturers) but I feel totally let down by
> Harman's (the parent company of Lexicon) failure to offer HDMI solutions
> rather than excuses. Company politics and restructuring are probably
> factors in all this. I jumped ship to Denon products a couple of years
> ago when it became plain that Lexicon was cheating its customers in this
> regard. Yes, there is some great audio still being produced by some
> expensive products but they have clearly gone the way of the dodo bird
> on this one. Let's be realistic. HD audio codecs available via
> mainstream equipment is basically as good or better than the "premium"
> sound that used to be the province of high end equipment. The people
> who would argue otherwise are those who still are extolling the virtues
> of vinyl. While I can appreciate their basic arguments I still have to
> temper their position with the realities and economies of today's
> equipment.
>
> It is also a similar situation with the video side of things. For years
> the CRT (including its big brother the CRT-based front projector) has
> been considered the ultimate, continuous, deep black viewing
> experience. No question there. But with this comes the baggage:
> weight, maintenance and component degradation over time. While some
> digital technologies might share some of the component degradation over
> time (usually remedied by changing the bulb for now) there is no
> question that CRTs have become the dinosaurs of today's Home Theater
> Experience. The latest digital projectors (front and back) have deep
> blacks, etc. that truly rival the CRTs. And with the quest for bigger
> and bigger pictures a standalone CRT display will soon be a memory to
> anyone except the extremely faithful. I'm glad that you pointed out
> that today's RPMs are becoming this generation's (it's too early to say
> "this century's") CRT. Best bang for the buck, but try to get one
> before they are no longer manufactured. That's exactly what I have been
> telling people myself. With Sony's recent announcement that they are
> leaving the RPM (SXRD) market to concentrate on flat panels and front
> projectors (even though they are currently #2 by their own admission in
> a dwindling RPM market) I felt a sense of deja vu. As you may recall,
> I've owned an HP MD5880n DLP RPM for several years now and last year HP
> dropped RPMs in favor of Plasma and LCD "flat screens" for the same
> reason as Sony. I own a plasma set and several LCD sets in addition to
> my HP RPM (and a JVC DLA-RS1 FP) and I still consider the HP picture to
> be a match for any of these. In fact, even with all my out of the box
> problems with HP (the first unit was DOA and the replacement has worked
> perfectly for two years) I'm still extremely happy watching "normal" HD
> TV on this 1080p set on a regular basis when I don't want to resort to
> the 110" screen for FP viewing.
>
> I find it interesting that I'm now advising people to treat RPMs as they
> used to treat CRTS. To wit, if you have the room for them, they are
> currently the best bang for the buck. Yes, big screen plasma and LCD
> prices will continue to fall, but in the 58" and up range they are still
> not competitively priced with RPMs. And some of the RPMs I saw at Cedia
> in 2007 continue to amaze me. A neighbor just installed a 58" JVC LCOS
> RPM that not only looks beautiful but has a depth of only 11.5 inches
> and literally can be hung on a wall with an optional bracket.
>
> RPM brands are diminishing for sure, but they still make good choices if
> they fit a person's situation. And since many of their parts are in
> common with FPs from the major manufacturers (and even among them!) I
> wouldn't be overly concerned with parts availability for at least a
> decade if not more.
>
>
> -- RAF
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Richard,

Good Lord! I told you! I am not surprised of that type of industry ignorant
response, and company approach.

Tell him that I already have my premium cards with XLR balanced outputs
connected to my Theta Dreadnaught multi-channel amp (a gem I might add) and
the quality is superb and I recommend it "as long as the rest of the system,
including all wires, has similar high quality to notice the difference".

In other words, Theta is telling this person that before they can even start
thinking about upgrading for hi-bit audio via HDMI connections, he needs to
spend $6K in just 3 channels (the price of a new top of the line Denon A/V
Receiver, loaded).

This is wrong, balanced connections between preamp and amp are not a
requirement for hi-bit audio and HDMI from the source, this is non-sense.
The real reason they are doing this upgrade is because the balanced card is
also a premium DAC that can handle the hi-bit resolution when HDMI carries
the maximum resolution per channel by the spec, regardless of the number of
channels, could be 2.0 or 7.1. He would need that card anyway, so do not
tell him.

Wait until they tell him how much for the rest, they did not tell him yet
the full story, that the other non-premium cards for the surrounds might NOT
work with the full HDMI upgrade, as they told me before I started yelling to
this Theta wiz manager at CEDIA when he told me that the HDMI spec was not
ready (1.3 spec was out June 06), in front of Shane, poor Shane, he helped
me on the "loud" voice exchange.

However, at $2K per card applied to each surround is a waste, there is no
need for such quality on those channels. It would have cost me $32K just on
cards for my 16 speakers. No way, not even if I am dying in a week, well,
maybe not on my last shot at Beethoven.

They said RCA legacy coax audio inputs are the same quality of HDMI hi-bit
HD codecs? I guess I have to pay more attention, 640Kbps 5.1 DD compressed
must be equal in sound than 24Mbps 7.1 DTS Master Audio, 40 times more bits
and sounds the same? Good Lord!

I cannot find my gun! I must have trashed it when I moved last year. I am
safer this way, they do not have CinemaScope HT in penitentiaries, not yet,
that would be quite a retirement indeed.

This person invested on a Theta without balanced cables and premium DACs?
The premium cards have the balanced connectors and are much more expensive
but they are worth every penny once you get into that quality of sound and
DAC.

This is like having a Ferrari with 55mph tires. I wonder who advised this
person?

Take care Richard, and Happy New Year to everyone.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:47 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Theta Casablanca

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo, you are just going to love this, unload all guns in the house.
Form that customer...

I just talked with Theta.
Theta has the new upgrade DAC cards with XLR connectors for balance outputs
that I have wanted and works from new blue ray format through the RCA
connector digital output from the blue ray player. This will cost me
$6,000.00 and through away my old 3 DAC cards that cost me $6,000.00. They
have not done the sound input from the HDMI connector because they feel the
standards are not done yet. They think my sound quality will be the same or
better using the RCA digital input I now use. But when they do finish the
HDMI connector software then I can just up grade that card and software. My
3- new DAC cards will not need changed again. The only reason to use the
HDMI connections is to change video and audio sources through the Theta. I
currently switch sound and video separately for now.

Right now all my AMP's use XLR connectors for inputs, but my Theta III uses
RCA outputs. With changing the DAC cards all my connectors will match
correctly and give me the best sound through all balanced outputs/inputs and
is compatible with blue ray format from its Digital outputs.

LOL
HD audio codecs from HD disc down converted to an SD digital out, DD,
sounds as good or better than HD audio because their DACs are the best
since sliced bread?

Richard Fisher
ISF and HAA certified
HD Library is provided by Techservicesusa.com
Publisher http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php

Dr Robert A Fowkes wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> At 02:03 AM 12/28/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> They always said they were working on it, for the past 150 years, and
>> giving
>> excuses that blamed others, such as HDMI specs not ready, and the wind
>> blowing in the wrong direction.
>>
>> Here is some bluffing: http://www.thetadigital.com/faqhdmi.htm
>
> ....
>
> Rodolfo (Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc. to you and all others
> reading this),
>
> I feel your pain. The positions taken by some manufacturers of what is
> generally considered "premium" equipment has, in my opinion, gone beyond
> a cautious approach regarding HDMI to a totally unreasonable and
> unacceptable one. I myself am (was) a big fan of Lexicon products (also
> considered relatively high end although not quite in the same class as
> some of the "salon" manufacturers) but I feel totally let down by
> Harman's (the parent company of Lexicon) failure to offer HDMI solutions
> rather than excuses. Company politics and restructuring are probably
> factors in all this. I jumped ship to Denon products a couple of years
> ago when it became plain that Lexicon was cheating its customers in this
> regard. Yes, there is some great audio still being produced by some
> expensive products but they have clearly gone the way of the dodo bird
> on this one. Let's be realistic. HD audio codecs available via
> mainstream equipment is basically as good or better than the "premium"
> sound that used to be the province of high end equipment. The people
> who would argue otherwise are those who still are extolling the virtues
> of vinyl. While I can appreciate their basic arguments I still have to
> temper their position with the realities and economies of today's
> equipment.
>
> It is also a similar situation with the video side of things. For years
> the CRT (including its big brother the CRT-based front projector) has
> been considered the ultimate, continuous, deep black viewing
> experience. No question there. But with this comes the baggage:
> weight, maintenance and component degradation over time. While some
> digital technologies might share some of the component degradation over
> time (usually remedied by changing the bulb for now) there is no
> question that CRTs have become the dinosaurs of today's Home Theater
> Experience. The latest digital projectors (front and back) have deep
> blacks, etc. that truly rival the CRTs. And with the quest for bigger
> and bigger pictures a standalone CRT display will soon be a memory to
> anyone except the extremely faithful. I'm glad that you pointed out
> that today's RPMs are becoming this generation's (it's too early to say
> "this century's") CRT. Best bang for the buck, but try to get one
> before they are no longer manufactured. That's exactly what I have been
> telling people myself. With Sony's recent announcement that they are
> leaving the RPM (SXRD) market to concentrate on flat panels and front
> projectors (even though they are currently #2 by their own admission in
> a dwindling RPM market) I felt a sense of deja vu. As you may recall,
> I've owned an HP MD5880n DLP RPM for several years now and last year HP
> dropped RPMs in favor of Plasma and LCD "flat screens" for the same
> reason as Sony. I own a plasma set and several LCD sets in addition to
> my HP RPM (and a JVC DLA-RS1 FP) and I still consider the HP picture to
> be a match for any of these. In fact, even with all my out of the box
> problems with HP (the first unit was DOA and the replacement has worked
> perfectly for two years) I'm still extremely happy watching "normal" HD
> TV on this 1080p set on a regular basis when I don't want to resort to
> the 110" screen for FP viewing.
>
> I find it interesting that I'm now advising people to treat RPMs as they
> used to treat CRTS. To wit, if you have the room for them, they are
> currently the best bang for the buck. Yes, big screen plasma and LCD
> prices will continue to fall, but in the 58" and up range they are still
> not competitively priced with RPMs. And some of the RPMs I saw at Cedia
> in 2007 continue to amaze me. A neighbor just installed a 58" JVC LCOS
> RPM that not only looks beautiful but has a depth of only 11.5 inches
> and literally can be hung on a wall with an optional bracket.
>
> RPM brands are diminishing for sure, but they still make good choices if
> they fit a person's situation. And since many of their parts are in
> common with FPs from the major manufacturers (and even among them!) I
> wouldn't be overly concerned with parts availability for at least a
> decade if not more.
>
>
> -- RAF
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
> same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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[email protected]