Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.

If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
striking image like a panel or RPTV.

Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room conditions
and viewing requirements first?

Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid of
the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?

I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.

Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests such
as:

a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the defined
close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees and
greenery at the distance), and

b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color fabric
with no porous, pimples, etc,

c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
Search about one year ago.

That is just to mention a few.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo and Richard,


In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite CRT
RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!

The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets with
Fresnel lenses.


My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors if
any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens they
use or both?

Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
something screen size.

Any help out there?


Nice to have the tips list back!


Larry







-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: The Tips List is Back!

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hi all,

Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
weeks. Sorry about that.

The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.

We apologize for the inconvenience.

Game on...

Shane Sturgeon
Publisher, HDTV Magazine
Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.

happen to have a link to that?

Thanks

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>
> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>
> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room conditions
> and viewing requirements first?
>
> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid of
> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>
> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>
> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests such
> as:
>
> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the defined
> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees and
> greenery at the distance), and
>
> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color fabric
> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>
> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.
>
> That is just to mention a few.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

With a low gain screen, .8-1.4, viewing angle is not an issue with front
projection.

As Rodolfo pointed out you need to match your display to the viewing
environment.

LCD has it's limitations... if you want the best image you want top of
the line only.

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Larry Megugorac wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

R & R,

You guys usually come up with the greatest replies.

Why do I want to replace the Pioneer? Well I want a larger picture (mine
is 58" want at least 65") and yes I would like to take advantage of Blu Ray
and all the codec's it provides thru one simple cable HDMI.

To do this I have to upgrade my Video source, my Pre-Pro and get a Blu Ray
player. The reason I'm considering the Denon 4308 is that they have the
DCDi from Faroudja Video chip in it so I would only need to get the Denon
DVD 2500(which doesn't have it as the 3800 does)I have been waiting for 1.3a
to be incorporated in these components. My ol' CRT(s) still puts out a
great picture in an analog way that some digital sets don't!

I know it's been said that it's tough to see the difference in 720, 1080i
and 1080P, but I guess I assumed that to go Blu Ray and see a leap in PQ I
needed 1080P. My room is 15 X 20.

My viewing room has windows (that I can "blind" most the light there) and a
big entrance (double door size) with no doors. I know it's been said that
the JVC RS2 projector does ambient light conditions fairly well for a
projector but those are all relative terms.

I also have read that projector screens over 1.0 can narrow the viewing
angle.

It seems what I need to do is focus (intended) on what I'm really after.

On the Forum I asked Richard his thoughts on Mit's latest 73835 and I guess
no one has viewed it yet. 73" would be killer and I know that Mits is never
picked for the best picture, but it needs to be at least the PQ I currently
get from my Elite. Then there is their up coming Laser series...

Thanks so much for your inputs....as always I really appreciate it!

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:39 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

With a low gain screen, .8-1.4, viewing angle is not an issue with front
projection.

As Rodolfo pointed out you need to match your display to the viewing
environment.

LCD has it's limitations... if you want the best image you want top of
the line only.

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Larry Megugorac wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I guess I got you attention to that claim.

Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
(Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.

The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.

happen to have a link to that?

Thanks

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>
> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>
> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
conditions
> and viewing requirements first?
>
> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
of
> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>
> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>
> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
such
> as:
>
> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
defined
> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
and
> greenery at the distance), and
>
> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
fabric
> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>
> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.
>
> That is just to mention a few.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I looked at a split screen demo at Best Buy on Samsung? 50" to show the
difference between normal and 120hz motion processing. Could not see the
difference within the 3 minutes I spent looking...

I have no intimate time with LCD but will soon. We have a committment
from Mits on one.

What I can say is LCD has improved dramatically from 4 years ago!

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I guess I got you attention to that claim.
>
> Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
> resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
> equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
> (Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
> attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
> certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.
>
> The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
> huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
> he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
> for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Richard Fisher
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> > c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> > worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> > Search about one year ago.
>
> happen to have a link to that?
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
> A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
> Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
> ISF and HAA certified
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Larry,
>>
>>I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
>>viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>>
>>If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
>>striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>>
>>Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
>>degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
>
> conditions
>
>>and viewing requirements first?
>>
>>Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
>
> of
>
>>the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>>
>>I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>>
>>Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
>
> such
>
>>as:
>>
>>a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
>
> defined
>
>>close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
>>detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
>
> and
>
>>greenery at the distance), and
>>
>>b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
>
> fabric
>
>>with no porous, pimples, etc,
>>
>>c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
>>worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
>>Search about one year ago.
>>
>>That is just to mention a few.
>>
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>Subject: Viewing Angle
>>
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Rodolfo and Richard,
>>
>>
>>In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
>
> CRT
>
>>RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>>
>>The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
>
> with
>
>>Fresnel lenses.
>>
>>
>>My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
>
> if
>
>>any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
>
> they
>
>>use or both?
>>
>>Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
>>re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
>>something screen size.
>>
>>Any help out there?
>>
>>
>>Nice to have the tips list back!
>>
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
>>weeks. Sorry about that.
>>
>>The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
>>spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
>>I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>>
>>We apologize for the inconvenience.
>>
>>Game on...
>>
>>Shane Sturgeon
>>Publisher, HDTV Magazine
>>Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
>>GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Is 1080 always better than 720? Of course! If all is equal. But in our real
world, not all is equal. I always enjoy showing our wall of 4 sets with the
same cables and source, and asking everyone to pick the best set. Or I ask
them which is the plasma and LCD? Which are the 720 and 1080? It really
surprises them when they pick either the Pioneer Pro 50" or Panasonic
Broadcast 42", both 720, over the Panasonic 1080 home and Sharp 1080 LCD
sets. We have calibrated them too. It is also interesting to watch them when
there is a scene change and the plasmas go black, yet the LCD goes dark
grey. Or to watch motion on all of them. Even the 1080 home plasma does not
do motion like the Pro/Broadcast models.

For overall viewing, I would choose a Pioneer Professional plasma in a large
format. The new pros are to be out by September. Unfortunately, I did not
make Infocomm due to a funeral, but what I have seen in advance of the new
Pioneers, it is worth waiting for. I was told many months ago there would be
a full range of new pro units in both resolutions. Whether Pioneer still
will, I do not know as they are undergoing some strategic changes, Maybe
someone that went to Infocomm can tell us what and when. But I can tell you
that the old PDP 5000ex is my favorite, even over the current Kuro 1080.
Though the 50" Kuro does seem to have darker blacks, the 5000 has more life
and what I attribute to more linear gray scale steps, something I have never
seen discussed nor quantified. Hopefully the pro units will have this plus
the black of the Kuro.

The next best is the Panasonic Broadcast line, which is quite superior to
the home line, but not quite as good as the Pioneer Pro. Both have
replaceable video cards, and when I replaced an old 5004 Pioneer card with a
Key Digital card, the accuracy of skin tones and color gradation steps were
vastly improved. I was quite taken back by the improvement. Who, if anyone,
is still making third party improved video cards for either, I have no idea,
but again, someone who went to Infocomm may be able to tell us, as I know
Key Digital discontinued theirs about 2 years ago.

For my taste, I would rather have a superior 60" set than a lesser 73" set.
I would know the difference and it would always annoy me, especially since I
would have to look at the better sets all day in my store. It would then be
quite hard to watch at home.

Joseph Azar



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:18 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

R & R,

You guys usually come up with the greatest replies.

Why do I want to replace the Pioneer? Well I want a larger picture (mine
is 58" want at least 65") and yes I would like to take advantage of Blu Ray
and all the codec's it provides thru one simple cable HDMI.

To do this I have to upgrade my Video source, my Pre-Pro and get a Blu Ray
player. The reason I'm considering the Denon 4308 is that they have the
DCDi from Faroudja Video chip in it so I would only need to get the Denon
DVD 2500(which doesn't have it as the 3800 does)I have been waiting for 1.3a
to be incorporated in these components. My ol' CRT(s) still puts out a
great picture in an analog way that some digital sets don't!

I know it's been said that it's tough to see the difference in 720, 1080i
and 1080P, but I guess I assumed that to go Blu Ray and see a leap in PQ I
needed 1080P. My room is 15 X 20.

My viewing room has windows (that I can "blind" most the light there) and a
big entrance (double door size) with no doors. I know it's been said that
the JVC RS2 projector does ambient light conditions fairly well for a
projector but those are all relative terms.

I also have read that projector screens over 1.0 can narrow the viewing
angle.

It seems what I need to do is focus (intended) on what I'm really after.

On the Forum I asked Richard his thoughts on Mit's latest 73835 and I guess
no one has viewed it yet. 73" would be killer and I know that Mits is never
picked for the best picture, but it needs to be at least the PQ I currently
get from my Elite. Then there is their up coming Laser series...

Thanks so much for your inputs....as always I really appreciate it!

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:39 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

With a low gain screen, .8-1.4, viewing angle is not an issue with front
projection.

As Rodolfo pointed out you need to match your display to the viewing
environment.

LCD has it's limitations... if you want the best image you want top of
the line only.

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Larry Megugorac wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


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day) send an email to:
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day) send an email to:
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008
11:20 AM


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To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.

Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?


Thanks again


Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I guess I got you attention to that claim.

Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
(Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.

The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.

happen to have a link to that?

Thanks

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>
> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>
> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
conditions
> and viewing requirements first?
>
> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
of
> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>
> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>
> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
such
> as:
>
> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
defined
> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
and
> greenery at the distance), and
>
> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
fabric
> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>
> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.
>
> That is just to mention a few.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Joe,

Is it true that Pioneer will have Panny make their Plasma screens and
Pioneer will supply better electronics to Panny?

What then would be the difference between the 2 companies?

Thanks,

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Joseph Azar
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:52 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Is 1080 always better than 720? Of course! If all is equal. But in our real
world, not all is equal. I always enjoy showing our wall of 4 sets with the
same cables and source, and asking everyone to pick the best set. Or I ask
them which is the plasma and LCD? Which are the 720 and 1080? It really
surprises them when they pick either the Pioneer Pro 50" or Panasonic
Broadcast 42", both 720, over the Panasonic 1080 home and Sharp 1080 LCD
sets. We have calibrated them too. It is also interesting to watch them when
there is a scene change and the plasmas go black, yet the LCD goes dark
grey. Or to watch motion on all of them. Even the 1080 home plasma does not
do motion like the Pro/Broadcast models.

For overall viewing, I would choose a Pioneer Professional plasma in a large
format. The new pros are to be out by September. Unfortunately, I did not
make Infocomm due to a funeral, but what I have seen in advance of the new
Pioneers, it is worth waiting for. I was told many months ago there would be
a full range of new pro units in both resolutions. Whether Pioneer still
will, I do not know as they are undergoing some strategic changes, Maybe
someone that went to Infocomm can tell us what and when. But I can tell you
that the old PDP 5000ex is my favorite, even over the current Kuro 1080.
Though the 50" Kuro does seem to have darker blacks, the 5000 has more life
and what I attribute to more linear gray scale steps, something I have never
seen discussed nor quantified. Hopefully the pro units will have this plus
the black of the Kuro.

The next best is the Panasonic Broadcast line, which is quite superior to
the home line, but not quite as good as the Pioneer Pro. Both have
replaceable video cards, and when I replaced an old 5004 Pioneer card with a
Key Digital card, the accuracy of skin tones and color gradation steps were
vastly improved. I was quite taken back by the improvement. Who, if anyone,
is still making third party improved video cards for either, I have no idea,
but again, someone who went to Infocomm may be able to tell us, as I know
Key Digital discontinued theirs about 2 years ago.

For my taste, I would rather have a superior 60" set than a lesser 73" set.
I would know the difference and it would always annoy me, especially since I
would have to look at the better sets all day in my store. It would then be
quite hard to watch at home.

Joseph Azar



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:18 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

R & R,

You guys usually come up with the greatest replies.

Why do I want to replace the Pioneer? Well I want a larger picture (mine
is 58" want at least 65") and yes I would like to take advantage of Blu Ray
and all the codec's it provides thru one simple cable HDMI.

To do this I have to upgrade my Video source, my Pre-Pro and get a Blu Ray
player. The reason I'm considering the Denon 4308 is that they have the
DCDi from Faroudja Video chip in it so I would only need to get the Denon
DVD 2500(which doesn't have it as the 3800 does)I have been waiting for 1.3a
to be incorporated in these components. My ol' CRT(s) still puts out a
great picture in an analog way that some digital sets don't!

I know it's been said that it's tough to see the difference in 720, 1080i
and 1080P, but I guess I assumed that to go Blu Ray and see a leap in PQ I
needed 1080P. My room is 15 X 20.

My viewing room has windows (that I can "blind" most the light there) and a
big entrance (double door size) with no doors. I know it's been said that
the JVC RS2 projector does ambient light conditions fairly well for a
projector but those are all relative terms.

I also have read that projector screens over 1.0 can narrow the viewing
angle.

It seems what I need to do is focus (intended) on what I'm really after.

On the Forum I asked Richard his thoughts on Mit's latest 73835 and I guess
no one has viewed it yet. 73" would be killer and I know that Mits is never
picked for the best picture, but it needs to be at least the PQ I currently
get from my Elite. Then there is their up coming Laser series...

Thanks so much for your inputs....as always I really appreciate it!

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:39 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

With a low gain screen, .8-1.4, viewing angle is not an issue with front
projection.

As Rodolfo pointed out you need to match your display to the viewing
environment.

LCD has it's limitations... if you want the best image you want top of
the line only.

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Larry Megugorac wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1521 - Release Date: 6/26/2008
11:20 AM


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
[email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

That is one of the issues, but it should happen on any place of the screen.

Look for the other items I mentioned, for the greenery test and lady face
test you need content that can stay long enough on the shot so you could
notice the effect.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:22 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.

Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?


Thanks again


Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I guess I got you attention to that claim.

Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
(Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.

The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.

happen to have a link to that?

Thanks

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>
> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>
> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
conditions
> and viewing requirements first?
>
> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
of
> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>
> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>
> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
such
> as:
>
> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
defined
> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
and
> greenery at the distance), and
>
> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
fabric
> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>
> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.
>
> That is just to mention a few.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens.

Do you have any comment about the Pioneer Panasonic partnership?

Is Pioneer only going to give Panny 8/10's of their circuitry so that they
still have an edge?

Their certainly has to be a difference...will Pioneer not get the best
Plasma screens from Panny?

Thanks!

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

That is one of the issues, but it should happen on any place of the screen.

Look for the other items I mentioned, for the greenery test and lady face
test you need content that can stay long enough on the shot so you could
notice the effect.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:22 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.

Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?


Thanks again


Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I guess I got you attention to that claim.

Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
(Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.

The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.

happen to have a link to that?

Thanks

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>
> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>
> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
conditions
> and viewing requirements first?
>
> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
of
> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>
> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>
> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
such
> as:
>
> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
defined
> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
and
> greenery at the distance), and
>
> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
fabric
> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>
> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.
>
> That is just to mention a few.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Yes, mid-next year. The electronics will still be Pioneer and they say that
is a BIG part of the difference. Panasonics will improve as they will be
using Pioneer glass, having been taught how to by Pioneer.



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:33 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Joe,

Is it true that Pioneer will have Panny make their Plasma screens and
Pioneer will supply better electronics to Panny?

What then would be the difference between the 2 companies?

Thanks,

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Joseph Azar
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:52 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Is 1080 always better than 720? Of course! If all is equal. But in our real
world, not all is equal. I always enjoy showing our wall of 4 sets with the
same cables and source, and asking everyone to pick the best set. Or I ask
them which is the plasma and LCD? Which are the 720 and 1080? It really
surprises them when they pick either the Pioneer Pro 50" or Panasonic
Broadcast 42", both 720, over the Panasonic 1080 home and Sharp 1080 LCD
sets. We have calibrated them too. It is also interesting to watch them when
there is a scene change and the plasmas go black, yet the LCD goes dark
grey. Or to watch motion on all of them. Even the 1080 home plasma does not
do motion like the Pro/Broadcast models.

For overall viewing, I would choose a Pioneer Professional plasma in a large
format. The new pros are to be out by September. Unfortunately, I did not
make Infocomm due to a funeral, but what I have seen in advance of the new
Pioneers, it is worth waiting for. I was told many months ago there would be
a full range of new pro units in both resolutions. Whether Pioneer still
will, I do not know as they are undergoing some strategic changes, Maybe
someone that went to Infocomm can tell us what and when. But I can tell you
that the old PDP 5000ex is my favorite, even over the current Kuro 1080.
Though the 50" Kuro does seem to have darker blacks, the 5000 has more life
and what I attribute to more linear gray scale steps, something I have never
seen discussed nor quantified. Hopefully the pro units will have this plus
the black of the Kuro.

The next best is the Panasonic Broadcast line, which is quite superior to
the home line, but not quite as good as the Pioneer Pro. Both have
replaceable video cards, and when I replaced an old 5004 Pioneer card with a
Key Digital card, the accuracy of skin tones and color gradation steps were
vastly improved. I was quite taken back by the improvement. Who, if anyone,
is still making third party improved video cards for either, I have no idea,
but again, someone who went to Infocomm may be able to tell us, as I know
Key Digital discontinued theirs about 2 years ago.

For my taste, I would rather have a superior 60" set than a lesser 73" set.
I would know the difference and it would always annoy me, especially since I
would have to look at the better sets all day in my store. It would then be
quite hard to watch at home.

Joseph Azar



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:18 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

R & R,

You guys usually come up with the greatest replies.

Why do I want to replace the Pioneer? Well I want a larger picture (mine
is 58" want at least 65") and yes I would like to take advantage of Blu Ray
and all the codec's it provides thru one simple cable HDMI.

To do this I have to upgrade my Video source, my Pre-Pro and get a Blu Ray
player. The reason I'm considering the Denon 4308 is that they have the
DCDi from Faroudja Video chip in it so I would only need to get the Denon
DVD 2500(which doesn't have it as the 3800 does)I have been waiting for 1.3a
to be incorporated in these components. My ol' CRT(s) still puts out a
great picture in an analog way that some digital sets don't!

I know it's been said that it's tough to see the difference in 720, 1080i
and 1080P, but I guess I assumed that to go Blu Ray and see a leap in PQ I
needed 1080P. My room is 15 X 20.

My viewing room has windows (that I can "blind" most the light there) and a
big entrance (double door size) with no doors. I know it's been said that
the JVC RS2 projector does ambient light conditions fairly well for a
projector but those are all relative terms.

I also have read that projector screens over 1.0 can narrow the viewing
angle.

It seems what I need to do is focus (intended) on what I'm really after.

On the Forum I asked Richard his thoughts on Mit's latest 73835 and I guess
no one has viewed it yet. 73" would be killer and I know that Mits is never
picked for the best picture, but it needs to be at least the PQ I currently
get from my Elite. Then there is their up coming Laser series...

Thanks so much for your inputs....as always I really appreciate it!

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:39 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

With a low gain screen, .8-1.4, viewing angle is not an issue with front
projection.

As Rodolfo pointed out you need to match your display to the viewing
environment.

LCD has it's limitations... if you want the best image you want top of
the line only.

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Larry Megugorac wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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11:20 AM


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8:27 AM


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

Your conclusion:

"Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens."

That is not what I said, there is a huge market for <37" panels for "casual"
viewing (kitchen, gym, etc) that LCD is perfect due to space, weight, and
handling of ambient light. Or even larger panels on an apartment at the
beach, which plasma could be a problem due to reflections.

Regarding Panny and Pioneer the kind on information you ask is insider
information, and I rather not use a 1000+ email list for that; besides
Joseph already advanced his view.

I can tell you one thing, if there are two companies outsourcing mutually
for efficiencies but have to still giving the public the peace of mind of
final product quality, those companies are Panny and Pioneer regarding
plasmas; the two best out there, for years.

Everyone else is just in another tier of quality, regardless what Samsung,
LG, Hitachi, etc might say, just look at the image, compare, and your eyes
will tell (if you know what to look for).


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:09 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens.

Do you have any comment about the Pioneer Panasonic partnership?

Is Pioneer only going to give Panny 8/10's of their circuitry so that they
still have an edge?

Their certainly has to be a difference...will Pioneer not get the best
Plasma screens from Panny?

Thanks!

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

That is one of the issues, but it should happen on any place of the screen.

Look for the other items I mentioned, for the greenery test and lady face
test you need content that can stay long enough on the shot so you could
notice the effect.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:22 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.

Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?


Thanks again


Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I guess I got you attention to that claim.

Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
(Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.

The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.

happen to have a link to that?

Thanks

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>
> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>
> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
conditions
> and viewing requirements first?
>
> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
of
> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>
> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>
> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
such
> as:
>
> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
defined
> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
and
> greenery at the distance), and
>
> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
fabric
> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>
> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.
>
> That is just to mention a few.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Thanks Rodolfo,

I did not mean to imply that you said they were just good for still
scenes....it just they don't do motion or greenery real well!

That Panasonic TH-65PF10UK 65" Professional Plasma Display, seems to look
like a great display. I read where you can changes "cards" on the chassis.
I was curious if HDMI 1.3 is part of that display's abilities.

Have a great weekend!


Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:09 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

Your conclusion:

"Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens."

That is not what I said, there is a huge market for <37" panels for "casual"
viewing (kitchen, gym, etc) that LCD is perfect due to space, weight, and
handling of ambient light. Or even larger panels on an apartment at the
beach, which plasma could be a problem due to reflections.

Regarding Panny and Pioneer the kind on information you ask is insider
information, and I rather not use a 1000+ email list for that; besides
Joseph already advanced his view.

I can tell you one thing, if there are two companies outsourcing mutually
for efficiencies but have to still giving the public the peace of mind of
final product quality, those companies are Panny and Pioneer regarding
plasmas; the two best out there, for years.

Everyone else is just in another tier of quality, regardless what Samsung,
LG, Hitachi, etc might say, just look at the image, compare, and your eyes
will tell (if you know what to look for).


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:09 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens.

Do you have any comment about the Pioneer Panasonic partnership?

Is Pioneer only going to give Panny 8/10's of their circuitry so that they
still have an edge?

Their certainly has to be a difference...will Pioneer not get the best
Plasma screens from Panny?

Thanks!

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

That is one of the issues, but it should happen on any place of the screen.

Look for the other items I mentioned, for the greenery test and lady face
test you need content that can stay long enough on the shot so you could
notice the effect.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:22 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.

Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?


Thanks again


Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I guess I got you attention to that claim.

Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
(Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.

The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.

happen to have a link to that?

Thanks

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>
> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>
> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
conditions
> and viewing requirements first?
>
> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
of
> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>
> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>
> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
such
> as:
>
> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
defined
> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
and
> greenery at the distance), and
>
> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
fabric
> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>
> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.
>
> That is just to mention a few.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

I checked all my information from Panny and they do not specify the HDMI
version on any new and future models, nor they do it on their web site,
which I also checked for you.

But you can always call them if that is important to you:


1-800-211-PANA (7262)


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 4:40 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Thanks Rodolfo,

I did not mean to imply that you said they were just good for still
scenes....it just they don't do motion or greenery real well!

That Panasonic TH-65PF10UK 65" Professional Plasma Display, seems to look
like a great display. I read where you can changes "cards" on the chassis.
I was curious if HDMI 1.3 is part of that display's abilities.

Have a great weekend!


Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:09 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

Your conclusion:

"Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens."

That is not what I said, there is a huge market for <37" panels for "casual"
viewing (kitchen, gym, etc) that LCD is perfect due to space, weight, and
handling of ambient light. Or even larger panels on an apartment at the
beach, which plasma could be a problem due to reflections.

Regarding Panny and Pioneer the kind on information you ask is insider
information, and I rather not use a 1000+ email list for that; besides
Joseph already advanced his view.

I can tell you one thing, if there are two companies outsourcing mutually
for efficiencies but have to still giving the public the peace of mind of
final product quality, those companies are Panny and Pioneer regarding
plasmas; the two best out there, for years.

Everyone else is just in another tier of quality, regardless what Samsung,
LG, Hitachi, etc might say, just look at the image, compare, and your eyes
will tell (if you know what to look for).


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:09 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens.

Do you have any comment about the Pioneer Panasonic partnership?

Is Pioneer only going to give Panny 8/10's of their circuitry so that they
still have an edge?

Their certainly has to be a difference...will Pioneer not get the best
Plasma screens from Panny?

Thanks!

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

That is one of the issues, but it should happen on any place of the screen.

Look for the other items I mentioned, for the greenery test and lady face
test you need content that can stay long enough on the shot so you could
notice the effect.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:22 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.

Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?


Thanks again


Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I guess I got you attention to that claim.

Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
(Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.

The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.

happen to have a link to that?

Thanks

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>
> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>
> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
conditions
> and viewing requirements first?
>
> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
of
> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>
> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>
> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
such
> as:
>
> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
defined
> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
and
> greenery at the distance), and
>
> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
fabric
> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>
> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.
>
> That is just to mention a few.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I have a Panny HDMI input card for the Pro models in my hand, and nowhere
does it say which version it is, not on the box, the card, nor the manual. I
must assume it is not 1.3 as these have been out for over a year.

Of course, the question now becomes, can the DVI input process the 1.3 fully
with an adapter from the HDMI cable? This is something I have never looked
into. Rodolfo, got any info here?




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 6:13 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

I checked all my information from Panny and they do not specify the HDMI
version on any new and future models, nor they do it on their web site,
which I also checked for you.

But you can always call them if that is important to you:


1-800-211-PANA (7262)


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 4:40 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Thanks Rodolfo,

I did not mean to imply that you said they were just good for still
scenes....it just they don't do motion or greenery real well!

That Panasonic TH-65PF10UK 65" Professional Plasma Display, seems to look
like a great display. I read where you can changes "cards" on the chassis.
I was curious if HDMI 1.3 is part of that display's abilities.

Have a great weekend!


Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:09 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

Your conclusion:

"Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens."

That is not what I said, there is a huge market for <37" panels for "casual"
viewing (kitchen, gym, etc) that LCD is perfect due to space, weight, and
handling of ambient light. Or even larger panels on an apartment at the
beach, which plasma could be a problem due to reflections.

Regarding Panny and Pioneer the kind on information you ask is insider
information, and I rather not use a 1000+ email list for that; besides
Joseph already advanced his view.

I can tell you one thing, if there are two companies outsourcing mutually
for efficiencies but have to still giving the public the peace of mind of
final product quality, those companies are Panny and Pioneer regarding
plasmas; the two best out there, for years.

Everyone else is just in another tier of quality, regardless what Samsung,
LG, Hitachi, etc might say, just look at the image, compare, and your eyes
will tell (if you know what to look for).


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:09 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens.

Do you have any comment about the Pioneer Panasonic partnership?

Is Pioneer only going to give Panny 8/10's of their circuitry so that they
still have an edge?

Their certainly has to be a difference...will Pioneer not get the best
Plasma screens from Panny?

Thanks!

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

That is one of the issues, but it should happen on any place of the screen.

Look for the other items I mentioned, for the greenery test and lady face
test you need content that can stay long enough on the shot so you could
notice the effect.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:22 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.

Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?


Thanks again


Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I guess I got you attention to that claim.

Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
(Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.

The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.

happen to have a link to that?

Thanks

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>
> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>
> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
conditions
> and viewing requirements first?
>
> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
of
> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>
> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>
> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
such
> as:
>
> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
defined
> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
and
> greenery at the distance), and
>
> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
fabric
> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>
> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.
>
> That is just to mention a few.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
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>
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> day) send an email to:
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>
>
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

It's critical to understand that without a calibration you can't truly
evaluate a display, especially digital, which is riddled with such
artifacts if not set properly.

Nearly all TVs ship in sports mode, a gamma crushing, loud, bright, way
too blue and overly saturated obnoxious image chock full of artifacts
that sells TVs in the real world of the unwashed.

You have to calibrate first to D65 and wring out the gamma with the
correct setting of brightness and contrast to get rid of this noise,
countouring, pixelation, ETC... And then hope the color decoder and
color space is correct along with 1:1 pixel mapping.

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> That is one of the issues, but it should happen on any place of the screen.
>
> Look for the other items I mentioned, for the greenery test and lady face
> test you need content that can stay long enough on the shot so you could
> notice the effect.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:22 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
> artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.
>
> Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?
>
>
> Thanks again
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I guess I got you attention to that claim.
>
> Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
> resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
> equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
> (Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
> attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
> certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.
>
> The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
> huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
> he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
> for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Richard Fisher
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> > c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> > worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> > Search about one year ago.
>
> happen to have a link to that?
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
> A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
> Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
> ISF and HAA certified
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Larry,
>>
>>I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
>>viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>>
>>If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
>>striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>>
>>Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
>>degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
>
> conditions
>
>>and viewing requirements first?
>>
>>Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
>
> of
>
>>the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>>
>>I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>>
>>Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
>
> such
>
>>as:
>>
>>a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
>
> defined
>
>>close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
>>detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
>
> and
>
>>greenery at the distance), and
>>
>>b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
>
> fabric
>
>>with no porous, pimples, etc,
>>
>>c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
>>worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
>>Search about one year ago.
>>
>>That is just to mention a few.
>>
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>Subject: Viewing Angle
>>
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Rodolfo and Richard,
>>
>>
>>In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
>
> CRT
>
>>RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>>
>>The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
>
> with
>
>>Fresnel lenses.
>>
>>
>>My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
>
> if
>
>>any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
>
> they
>
>>use or both?
>>
>>Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
>>re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
>>something screen size.
>>
>>Any help out there?
>>
>>
>>Nice to have the tips list back!
>>
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
>>weeks. Sorry about that.
>>
>>The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
>>spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
>>I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>>
>>We apologize for the inconvenience.
>>
>>Game on...
>>
>>Shane Sturgeon
>>Publisher, HDTV Magazine
>>Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
>>GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
>>Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
>>www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>
> day) send an email to:
>
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
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> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
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>
>
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>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
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>
>
>
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> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

And because evaluating a TV for purchase usually happens at the store before
you sign a check, and since that type of "dream" professional calibration
would never happen at any store, nobody would buy any TV based on that
requirement.

And even after a purchase most people object to spend several hundred
dollars on an ISF calibration, comparatively they might rather spend that
money on a new Blu-ray player.

So I suggest to ask for the remote and do (or ask the dealer to do) the
basic adjustments bringing the contrast down, no vivid settings, no
sharpness, color and tint in the middle, color temp at standard (no warm, no
cool), no edge enhancements, etc. and view a variety of content, including
SD.

When you buy the set and bring it home do the DIY DVD or Blu-ray calibration
to the best you can following the instructions. When you feel rich you can
always hire an ISF technician and hope the TV would look better at the end,
not always does, and many people end up modifying the calibrated settings to
their taste after the ISFr leaves.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 12:22 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

It's critical to understand that without a calibration you can't truly
evaluate a display, especially digital, which is riddled with such
artifacts if not set properly.

Nearly all TVs ship in sports mode, a gamma crushing, loud, bright, way
too blue and overly saturated obnoxious image chock full of artifacts
that sells TVs in the real world of the unwashed.

You have to calibrate first to D65 and wring out the gamma with the
correct setting of brightness and contrast to get rid of this noise,
countouring, pixelation, ETC... And then hope the color decoder and
color space is correct along with 1:1 pixel mapping.

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> That is one of the issues, but it should happen on any place of the
screen.
>
> Look for the other items I mentioned, for the greenery test and lady face
> test you need content that can stay long enough on the shot so you could
> notice the effect.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:22 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
> artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.
>
> Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?
>
>
> Thanks again
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> I guess I got you attention to that claim.
>
> Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
> resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
> equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
> (Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
> attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic
that
> certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.
>
> The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
> huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that
only
> he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
> for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Richard Fisher
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> > c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement
much
> > worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> > Search about one year ago.
>
> happen to have a link to that?
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
> A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
> Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
> ISF and HAA certified
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Larry,
>>
>>I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
>>viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>>
>>If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
>>striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>>
>>Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
>>degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
>
> conditions
>
>>and viewing requirements first?
>>
>>Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
>
> of
>
>>the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>>
>>I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>>
>>Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
>
> such
>
>>as:
>>
>>a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
>
> defined
>
>>close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
>>detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
>
> and
>
>>greenery at the distance), and
>>
>>b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
>
> fabric
>
>>with no porous, pimples, etc,
>>
>>c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
>>worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
>>Search about one year ago.
>>
>>That is just to mention a few.
>>
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>Subject: Viewing Angle
>>
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Rodolfo and Richard,
>>
>>
>>In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
>
> CRT
>
>>RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>>
>>The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
>
> with
>
>>Fresnel lenses.
>>
>>
>>My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
>
> if
>
>>any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
>
> they
>
>>use or both?
>>
>>Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
>>re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
>>something screen size.
>>
>>Any help out there?
>>
>>
>>Nice to have the tips list back!
>>
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
>>weeks. Sorry about that.
>>
>>The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
>>spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
>>I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>>
>>We apologize for the inconvenience.
>>
>>Game on...
>>
>>Shane Sturgeon
>>Publisher, HDTV Magazine
>>Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
>>GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
>>Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
>>www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>day) send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>
>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>
> day) send an email to:
>
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
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> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
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>
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> day) send an email to:
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Joseph,

If DVI would have been able in 2002 to perform the level of HDMI 1.3 image
specifications (Deep Color, xv color, 10.2 GB of bandwidth, higher bits),
1.3 would not have been invented, nor HDMI, other than for the audio
features, which is usually not a TV benefit with two small speakers and a
5-watt amp.

And let me ask. When are you going to use Deep color, xv color, and 10.2 GB
of bandwidth, and higher bits, on a TV set to require specifications better
than DVI "on the image"?, when the display is able to handle that 1.3
potential (some now do, but is not the norm), and when a video source be
created to produce that level of video (other than Sony video cameras and
PCs software, for now).

On my meetings with HDMI and Silicon Image it was always clear that they are
having a hard time with an industry that is getting very confused with HDMI
versions (not to mention the public), and they recommend that TV
manufacturers specify the actual video capabilities on their sets (like xv
color, etc) rather than saying 1.2, or 1.3, because buyers would be better
serviced by knowing that the set is actually capable of superior video and
video processing, rather than saying that it handles 1.3 inputs, impress the
unsuspected buyer, but the set does not have an internal design to perform
all what 1.3 can offer (other than the input female chip).

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Joseph Azar
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 6:33 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I have a Panny HDMI input card for the Pro models in my hand, and nowhere
does it say which version it is, not on the box, the card, nor the manual. I
must assume it is not 1.3 as these have been out for over a year.

Of course, the question now becomes, can the DVI input process the 1.3 fully
with an adapter from the HDMI cable? This is something I have never looked
into. Rodolfo, got any info here?




-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 6:13 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

I checked all my information from Panny and they do not specify the HDMI
version on any new and future models, nor they do it on their web site,
which I also checked for you.

But you can always call them if that is important to you:


1-800-211-PANA (7262)


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 4:40 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Thanks Rodolfo,

I did not mean to imply that you said they were just good for still
scenes....it just they don't do motion or greenery real well!

That Panasonic TH-65PF10UK 65" Professional Plasma Display, seems to look
like a great display. I read where you can changes "cards" on the chassis.
I was curious if HDMI 1.3 is part of that display's abilities.

Have a great weekend!


Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:09 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

Your conclusion:

"Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens."

That is not what I said, there is a huge market for <37" panels for "casual"
viewing (kitchen, gym, etc) that LCD is perfect due to space, weight, and
handling of ambient light. Or even larger panels on an apartment at the
beach, which plasma could be a problem due to reflections.

Regarding Panny and Pioneer the kind on information you ask is insider
information, and I rather not use a 1000+ email list for that; besides
Joseph already advanced his view.

I can tell you one thing, if there are two companies outsourcing mutually
for efficiencies but have to still giving the public the peace of mind of
final product quality, those companies are Panny and Pioneer regarding
plasmas; the two best out there, for years.

Everyone else is just in another tier of quality, regardless what Samsung,
LG, Hitachi, etc might say, just look at the image, compare, and your eyes
will tell (if you know what to look for).


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:09 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,

Thanks for your thoughts on LCD's... they have got better but I guess not
good enough to be used for anything other than still photos or computer
screens.

Do you have any comment about the Pioneer Panasonic partnership?

Is Pioneer only going to give Panny 8/10's of their circuitry so that they
still have an edge?

Their certainly has to be a difference...will Pioneer not get the best
Plasma screens from Panny?

Thanks!

Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:41 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Larry,

That is one of the issues, but it should happen on any place of the screen.

Look for the other items I mentioned, for the greenery test and lady face
test you need content that can stay long enough on the shot so you could
notice the effect.


Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:22 AM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.

Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?


Thanks again


Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I guess I got you attention to that claim.

Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
(Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic that
certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.

The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that only
he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra


-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
Behalf Of Richard Fisher
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
Subject: Re: Viewing Angle


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.

happen to have a link to that?

Thanks

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Larry,
>
> I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
> viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>
> If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
> striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>
> Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
> degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
conditions
> and viewing requirements first?
>
> Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
of
> the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>
> I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>
> Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
such
> as:
>
> a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
defined
> close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
> detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
and
> greenery at the distance), and
>
> b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
fabric
> with no porous, pimples, etc,
>
> c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
> worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
> Search about one year ago.
>
> That is just to mention a few.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo and Richard,
>
>
> In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
CRT
> RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>
> The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
with
> Fresnel lenses.
>
>
> My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
if
> any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
they
> use or both?
>
> Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
> re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
> something screen size.
>
> Any help out there?
>
>
> Nice to have the tips list back!
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Hi all,
>
> Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
> weeks. Sorry about that.
>
> The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
> spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
> I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> Game on...
>
> Shane Sturgeon
> Publisher, HDTV Magazine
> Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
> GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
> Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
> www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
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> day) send an email to:
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>
>
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> day) send an email to:
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>
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The problem is you WON'T get the gamma set right without a meter and
numerous profiling at different brightness and contrast settings. Unlike
CRT the contrast does not need to go down to about halfway or less (like
so many digital displays do when selecting cinema, theater, pro modes),
it needs to be set for proper gamma and linear D65 color temp response
and that could be anywhere between 70-100, varies with each display
brand and model year.

I have tried guessing with patterns and no metering - it doesn't work.
Your eyes can't see that 90-100IRE is getting crushed along with other
areas that have an expanded or contracted gamma response or slight
variations in color error at the top denoting a crippled response - read
artifacts similar to what you were describing. This setting is critical
to applying all bits to their full dynamic range of response for the
least amount of processing errors!

As for changing settings after your calibrator leaves... I guarantee if
you get a calibration it won't have the loud dynamic response of sports
mode, it will have less light output, it will look flatter and less
exciting than "sell the TV mode". Know that the sales mode is 100%
artificial and it is only natural that you would prefer that ( I always
do at first until the nasties show up) - why else do they set them up
that way. With time it is likely you will come to appreciate the
artifact free or nearly artifact free proper response. The key is
choosing the right display for your application (ambient light and
screen size, especially with front projection). The Panasonic PTAE1000
is a perfect example; I can get it to respond favorabley in standard
mode but you will be left with blue blacks and the only real correction
is to use the color filter they provide which dramatically reduces the
light output. That is not the fault of your calibrator. That is the
fault of Panasonic and how they market the product; proper response
requires a samll screen and even then your screen may need an unusally
high gain to compensate. As noted in my review I did not tread that path
(Widescreen Review did) because as Joe Kane said, in the same issue LOL,
high gain screens denote a failure in projector design, technology or
application.

As for ISF price, sure that varies, with HDMI and 720p, 1080i, 1080p
delivered to video standards I charge $275 for one input/scan rate and
that means $275 for the above application. If your sources are
outputting the wrong signal levels then either I calibrate for them,
extra, or you replace your source with one that works correctly.

Anybody contracting a calibrator should have a clear understanding up
front of what the charges will be and what that is covering so there are
no surprises/misunderstandings. I quote $275-400 covering up to two
input/scan rates with the final charge being one or the other depending
on what is going on. In rare circumstances it runs more but not without
customer approval. Many times it can run more because I suggest
replacelment of a source - typically the shiny disc player.

Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
ISF and HAA certified

Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> And because evaluating a TV for purchase usually happens at the store before
> you sign a check, and since that type of "dream" professional calibration
> would never happen at any store, nobody would buy any TV based on that
> requirement.
>
> And even after a purchase most people object to spend several hundred
> dollars on an ISF calibration, comparatively they might rather spend that
> money on a new Blu-ray player.
>
> So I suggest to ask for the remote and do (or ask the dealer to do) the
> basic adjustments bringing the contrast down, no vivid settings, no
> sharpness, color and tint in the middle, color temp at standard (no warm, no
> cool), no edge enhancements, etc. and view a variety of content, including
> SD.
>
> When you buy the set and bring it home do the DIY DVD or Blu-ray calibration
> to the best you can following the instructions. When you feel rich you can
> always hire an ISF technician and hope the TV would look better at the end,
> not always does, and many people end up modifying the calibrated settings to
> their taste after the ISFr leaves.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
> Behalf Of Richard Fisher
> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 12:22 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
> Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> It's critical to understand that without a calibration you can't truly
> evaluate a display, especially digital, which is riddled with such
> artifacts if not set properly.
>
> Nearly all TVs ship in sports mode, a gamma crushing, loud, bright, way
> too blue and overly saturated obnoxious image chock full of artifacts
> that sells TVs in the real world of the unwashed.
>
> You have to calibrate first to D65 and wring out the gamma with the
> correct setting of brightness and contrast to get rid of this noise,
> countouring, pixelation, ETC... And then hope the color decoder and
> color space is correct along with 1:1 pixel mapping.
>
> Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
> A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
> Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
> ISF and HAA certified
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Larry,
>>
>>That is one of the issues, but it should happen on any place of the
>
> screen.
>
>>Look for the other items I mentioned, for the greenery test and lady face
>>test you need content that can stay long enough on the shot so you could
>>notice the effect.
>>
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
>>Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:22 AM
>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>>
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>After looking some more at LCD's ...action shots tended to show a weird
>>artifact in the screen's center...kind of like pixilation...but not.
>>
>>Rodolfo, I guess that is what you mean?
>>
>>
>>Thanks again
>>
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>Behalf Of Rodolfo La Maestra
>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:21 PM
>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>I guess I got you attention to that claim.
>>
>>Interestingly enough I always had that viewing experience with LCD loss of
>>resolution compared to plasma during motion and did not have myself the
>>equipment to demonstrate it (other than my eyes), so I was glad when Ross
>>(Display Search president) showed on one of the last HD conferences I
>>attended, the lab tests that I believe were co-sponsored with Panasonic
>
> that
>
>>certainly had all the money they want to do this lab work.
>>
>>The differences in number of lines of resolution lost during motion were
>>huge. The material Ross revealed was conference speaker material that
>
> only
>
>>he used for the presentation, and I must have it in my files; I will look
>>for it. But I promise that if I can not find it I will ask Ross directly.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>Behalf Of Richard Fisher
>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:38 PM
>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>Subject: Re: Viewing Angle
>>
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> > c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement
>
> much
>
>> > worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
>> > Search about one year ago.
>>
>>happen to have a link to that?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Richard Fisher, HDTV Magazine
>>A/V Science Editor http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/index.php
>>Community Director http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum
>>ISF and HAA certified
>>
>>Rodolfo La Maestra wrote:
>>
>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Larry,
>>>
>>>I believe you are going to run into other problems that are worst than the
>>>viewing angle when considering front projectors, such as ambient light.
>>>
>>>If the room would not be dark a front projector would not give you a
>>>striking image like a panel or RPTV.
>>>
>>>Rather than comparing generically which technology would give another 10
>>>degrees of viewing angle, why don't you start defining your room
>>
>>conditions
>>
>>
>>>and viewing requirements first?
>>>
>>>Your Elite RPTV will be a difficult act to beat. Why are you getting rid
>>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>the Elite? lack of HDMI? cannot count the 1920?
>>>
>>>I would consider a 1080p plasma from Panny or Pioneer Elite, but.
>>>
>>>Before you jump into LCD consider performing some serious viewing tests
>>
>>such
>>
>>
>>>as:
>>>
>>>a) various depths of greenery (such a forest) whereby other than the
>>
>>defined
>>
>>
>>>close up of leaves the non-close up image is a mesh of plain green without
>>>detail (you know is a forest but without resolving the details of trees
>>
>>and
>>
>>
>>>greenery at the distance), and
>>>
>>>b) a close up of a young female face (it becomes a mesh of skin color
>>
>>fabric
>>
>>
>>>with no porous, pimples, etc,
>>>
>>>c) image lag in addition to the typical resolution loss on movement much
>>>worst than plasma, a full study about that weakness was made by Display
>>>Search about one year ago.
>>>
>>>That is just to mention a few.
>>>
>>>
>>>Best Regards,
>>>
>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>>Behalf Of Larry Megugorac
>>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:28 PM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>>Subject: Viewing Angle
>>>
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Rodolfo and Richard,
>>>
>>>
>>>In looking for a new video source (to replace my venerable Pioneer Elite
>>
>>CRT
>>
>>
>>>RPTV) I stumbled across the latest in LCD's and was impressed with the PQ!
>>>
>>>The LCD sets seem to have almost no viewing angle limitations like sets
>>
>>with
>>
>>
>>>Fresnel lenses.
>>>
>>>
>>>My question is what viewing limitations are noticed with Front Projectors
>>
>>if
>>
>>
>>>any, based on DLP technology? Is it from the projector or the screens
>>
>>they
>>
>>
>>>use or both?
>>>
>>>Plasma and LCD seem to have the best View angle and it has got me to maybe
>>>re-think things. I saw a Sony LCD that was incredible though was a 40
>>>something screen size.
>>>
>>>Any help out there?
>>>
>>>
>>>Nice to have the tips list back!
>>>
>>>
>>>Larry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine Tips List On
>>>Behalf Of Shane Sturgeon
>>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:40 AM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine Tips List
>>>Subject: The Tips List is Back!
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>Unbeknownst to me, our Tips List email service has been down for a few
>>>weeks. Sorry about that.
>>>
>>>The parent account for this list had actually gone "over quota" with
>>>spam and shut itself down. We have fixed the "over quota" situation and
>>>I am taking necessary steps to ensure it does not happen again.
>>>
>>>We apologize for the inconvenience.
>>>
>>>Game on...
>>>
>>>Shane Sturgeon
>>>Publisher, HDTV Magazine
>>>Cell: (937) 532-8135 <callto:+19375328135>
>>>GTalk: mssturgeon <gtalk:[email protected]>
>>>Skype: HDTVMagazine <skype:hdtvmagazine>
>>>www.hdtvmagazine.com <http://www.hdtvmagazine.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>
>>day) send an email to:
>>
>>
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>day) send an email to:
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>
> day) send an email to:
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