Westinghouse LCD image

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Does your experience include the Sharp Aquas LCD panels?

Thanks

Richard Fisher
HD Library is Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php

Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Phil,
>
> I see now what you are referring to.
>
> It might be that is not much you can do externally with a better scaler to improve this problem.
>
> The loss of facial detail is most probably produced by the lag that is common on most LCDs that are
> not fast enough for active images, reason by which I do not consider worth investing in large LCD
> panels that are not yet on the 4ms range.
>
> This could also be the reason for the pin stripes disappearing when Leno moves.
>
> Pay attention to that effect and you would notice that when a person's head moves quickly the pixels
> inside the skin area are not moving in sync to that speed and appear as the porous of the person's
> face is moving independently of the head movement.
>
> On other type of content the lag problem could be masked by what is displayed on the image, but I
> find easier to detect on the faces of people.
>
> I have noticed the effect you mention even on higher priced sets. I have no problem in tolerating
> this defect on a 20" set for my kitchen, but I do with a 40"+ panel that could otherwise be replaced
> by a good plasma that does not have that speed problem.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Phil Pasteur
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:56 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P was: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> The display does accept 1080P input through two DVI, one HDMI and two sets
> of component inputs.
> The question of whether a 1080P input actually is left untouched by the
> internal scaler is a good one. I think that it is always in use as there is
> a "fill" function that is active even when I send 1080P from the Helois up
> converting DVD player. Several reviewers commented that they thought the
> scaler in the display was very good. The reason I was looking for a good
> 18080i to 1080P deinterlacer was that it seems that for certain program
> material the image loses detail when there is movement. The example that I
> was talking about with Leno was that he had a pinstripe suit on. When he
> would move, the stripes would disappear. When he was still, they were
> plainly visible. In other cases I have seen loss of facial detail with
> movement. Interestingly this is not consistent across all program material.
> Perhaps it is the source material rather than the display as was suggested.
> I am using a Directv H20 receiver set to native mode, in which it is
> supposed to pass through whatever format that it receives to feed the
> display. I get Leno OTA if this makes any difference.
>
> I will keep in mind your suggestion about Lumagen and calibration.
>
> Phil P.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Richard Fisher
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> > It seems by the answers that the is not much that will do the job as
> of now
> > that is not an exotic/ unaffordable (for me) unit
>
> Actually there may be no solution if the display does not accept a 1080P
> signal and even then it would need to be tested to confirm that doing so
> actually bypasses the internal scaler.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Richard,

Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that time they were on the 12ms
speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to mention on other lower class
20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are first noticed all one sees is
just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.

Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response time, so at least they have
recognized that is a problem to correct.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Richard Fisher
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:38 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Does your experience include the Sharp Aquas LCD panels?

Thanks

Richard Fisher
HD Library is Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php

Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Phil,
>
> I see now what you are referring to.
>
> It might be that is not much you can do externally with a better scaler to improve this problem.
>
> The loss of facial detail is most probably produced by the lag that is common on most LCDs that
are
> not fast enough for active images, reason by which I do not consider worth investing in large LCD
> panels that are not yet on the 4ms range.
>
> This could also be the reason for the pin stripes disappearing when Leno moves.
>
> Pay attention to that effect and you would notice that when a person's head moves quickly the
pixels
> inside the skin area are not moving in sync to that speed and appear as the porous of the person's
> face is moving independently of the head movement.
>
> On other type of content the lag problem could be masked by what is displayed on the image, but I
> find easier to detect on the faces of people.
>
> I have noticed the effect you mention even on higher priced sets. I have no problem in tolerating
> this defect on a 20" set for my kitchen, but I do with a 40"+ panel that could otherwise be
replaced
> by a good plasma that does not have that speed problem.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Phil Pasteur
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:56 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P was: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> The display does accept 1080P input through two DVI, one HDMI and two sets
> of component inputs.
> The question of whether a 1080P input actually is left untouched by the
> internal scaler is a good one. I think that it is always in use as there is
> a "fill" function that is active even when I send 1080P from the Helois up
> converting DVD player. Several reviewers commented that they thought the
> scaler in the display was very good. The reason I was looking for a good
> 18080i to 1080P deinterlacer was that it seems that for certain program
> material the image loses detail when there is movement. The example that I
> was talking about with Leno was that he had a pinstripe suit on. When he
> would move, the stripes would disappear. When he was still, they were
> plainly visible. In other cases I have seen loss of facial detail with
> movement. Interestingly this is not consistent across all program material.
> Perhaps it is the source material rather than the display as was suggested.
> I am using a Directv H20 receiver set to native mode, in which it is
> supposed to pass through whatever format that it receives to feed the
> display. I get Leno OTA if this makes any difference.
>
> I will keep in mind your suggestion about Lumagen and calibration.
>
> Phil P.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Richard Fisher
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> > It seems by the answers that the is not much that will do the job as
> of now
> > that is not an exotic/ unaffordable (for me) unit
>
> Actually there may be no solution if the display does not accept a 1080P
> signal and even then it would need to be tested to confirm that doing so
> actually bypasses the internal scaler.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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[email protected]



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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

The 42" Westinghouse is rated at 8 ms.

I will pay attention to see if it is actually consistent over all sources.
So far I have only noticed it on a few occasions. The Leno example being the
most glaring.

Phil P.

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 10:54 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Richard,

Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that
time they were on the 12ms
speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to
mention on other lower class
20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are first
noticed all one sees is
just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.

Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response time,
so at least they have
recognized that is a problem to correct.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Assuming this is the 1080P native set, it's likely the source. LCDs work
best at their native resolution and anything else is a compromise, to one
degree or another. This is why in the LCD world, 1080P is not automatically
the best answer unless you're using it exclusively for 1080P(yet to be
released) source material.

I think the chipset(Genesis?) in that particular unit is highly regarded, so
it's probably a case of implementation or the deinterlace/scaler chips on
the market are not quite up to the needs of 1080P LCD just yet.

8ms response is equivalent to 125Hz refresh on a CRT, so I doubt that's the
issue.

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Phil Pasteur
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 10:36 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> The 42" Westinghouse is rated at 8 ms.
>
> I will pay attention to see if it is actually consistent over all sources.
> So far I have only noticed it on a few occasions. The Leno example being
> the
> most glaring.
>
> Phil P.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 10:54 AM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Richard,
>
> Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that
> time they were on the 12ms
> speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to
> mention on other lower class
> 20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are
> first
> noticed all one sees is
> just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.
>
> Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response time,
> so at least they have
> recognized that is a problem to correct.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Bob,
I did some checking. The display uses
Video chipset: Genesis Malibu GM 1501
Input processor: Faroujda FL12310

The Faroujda is supposed to do "per pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing"
DCDi.
The spec sheet sounds very much like the claims made for the Lumagen or DVDO
units.
Faroujda chips have a good reputation, so short of the poor implementation
that you mention I would think I should look elsewhere for answers.
Interesting to hear that the 8 ms response time is equivalent to 125 Hz
refresh rate. That really should be fast enough to not cause motion
artifacts. Though obviously some critical viewers seem to still notice
something.

Thanks everyone for all of the input.

Phi P.

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Bob Mankin
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 1:26 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Assuming this is the 1080P native set, it's likely the source. LCDs work
best at their native resolution and anything else is a compromise, to one
degree or another. This is why in the LCD world, 1080P is not automatically
the best answer unless you're using it exclusively for 1080P(yet to be
released) source material.

I think the chipset(Genesis?) in that particular unit is highly regarded, so
it's probably a case of implementation or the deinterlace/scaler chips on
the market are not quite up to the needs of 1080P LCD just yet.

8ms response is equivalent to 125Hz refresh on a CRT, so I doubt that's the
issue.

Bob



To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

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[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Phil,

Just to be clear, the native res issue with LCDs is the nature of the beast
and not a knock on that particular set. In fact, bang for the buck I don't
think you could have made a better choice, IMO.

Good luck with your search.

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Phil Pasteur
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 1:56 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Bob,
> I did some checking. The display uses
> Video chipset: Genesis Malibu GM 1501
> Input processor: Faroujda FL12310
>
> The Faroujda is supposed to do "per pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing"
> DCDi.
> The spec sheet sounds very much like the claims made for the Lumagen or
> DVDO
> units.
> Faroujda chips have a good reputation, so short of the poor implementation
> that you mention I would think I should look elsewhere for answers.
> Interesting to hear that the 8 ms response time is equivalent to 125 Hz
> refresh rate. That really should be fast enough to not cause motion
> artifacts. Though obviously some critical viewers seem to still notice
> something.
>
> Thanks everyone for all of the input.
>
> Phi P.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Bob Mankin
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 1:26 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Assuming this is the 1080P native set, it's likely the source. LCDs work
> best at their native resolution and anything else is a compromise, to one
> degree or another. This is why in the LCD world, 1080P is not
> automatically
> the best answer unless you're using it exclusively for 1080P(yet to be
> released) source material.
>
> I think the chipset(Genesis?) in that particular unit is highly regarded,
> so
> it's probably a case of implementation or the deinterlace/scaler chips on
> the market are not quite up to the needs of 1080P LCD just yet.
>
> 8ms response is equivalent to 125Hz refresh on a CRT, so I doubt that's
> the
> issue.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> [email protected]


To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]

To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day) send an email to:
[email protected]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,
Based on what you said, I would not consider burying a large LCD flat panel display until this problem is greatly imporved.

Bob Bullock
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Richard,
>
> Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that time
> they were on the 12ms
> speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to mention
> on other lower class
> 20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are first
> noticed all one sees is
> just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.
>
> Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response time, so at
> least they have
> recognized that is a problem to correct.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Richard Fisher
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:38 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Does your experience include the Sharp Aquas LCD panels?
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard Fisher
> HD Library is Published by Tech Services
> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
> http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine wrote:
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > Phil,
> >
> > I see now what you are referring to.
> >
> > It might be that is not much you can do externally with a better scaler to
> improve this problem.
> >
> > The loss of facial detail is most probably produced by the lag that is common
> on most LCDs that
> are
> > not fast enough for active images, reason by which I do not consider worth
> investing in large LCD
> > panels that are not yet on the 4ms range.
> >
> > This could also be the reason for the pin stripes disappearing when Leno
> moves.
> >
> > Pay attention to that effect and you would notice that when a person's head
> moves quickly the
> pixels
> > inside the skin area are not moving in sync to that speed and appear as the
> porous of the person's
> > face is moving independently of the head movement.
> >
> > On other type of content the lag problem could be masked by what is displayed
> on the image, but I
> > find easier to detect on the faces of people.
> >
> > I have noticed the effect you mention even on higher priced sets. I have no
> problem in tolerating
> > this defect on a 20" set for my kitchen, but I do with a 40"+ panel that could
> otherwise be
> replaced
> > by a good plasma that does not have that speed problem.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Rodolfo La Maestra
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> > Phil Pasteur
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:56 AM
> > To: HDTV Magazine
> > Subject: Deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P was: 720 projector vs. 1080p
> >
> >
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > The display does accept 1080P input through two DVI, one HDMI and two sets
> > of component inputs.
> > The question of whether a 1080P input actually is left untouched by the
> > internal scaler is a good one. I think that it is always in use as there is
> > a "fill" function that is active even when I send 1080P from the Helois up
> > converting DVD player. Several reviewers commented that they thought the
> > scaler in the display was very good. The reason I was looking for a good
> > 18080i to 1080P deinterlacer was that it seems that for certain program
> > material the image loses detail when there is movement. The example that I
> > was talking about with Leno was that he had a pinstripe suit on. When he
> > would move, the stripes would disappear. When he was still, they were
> > plainly visible. In other cases I have seen loss of facial detail with
> > movement. Interestingly this is not consistent across all program material.
> > Perhaps it is the source material rather than the display as was suggested.
> > I am using a Directv H20 receiver set to native mode, in which it is
> > supposed to pass through whatever format that it receives to feed the
> > display. I get Leno OTA if this makes any difference.
> >
> > I will keep in mind your suggestion about Lumagen and calibration.
> >
> > Phil P.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> > Richard Fisher
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 AM
> > To: HDTV Magazine
> > Subject: Re: 720 projector vs. 1080p
> >
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > > It seems by the answers that the is not much that will do the job as
> > of now
> > > that is not an exotic/ unaffordable (for me) unit
> >
> > Actually there may be no solution if the display does not accept a 1080P
> > signal and even then it would need to be tested to confirm that doing so
> > actually bypasses the internal scaler.
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> > To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> > To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day)
> send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>
> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same day)
> send an email to:
> [email protected]



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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Bob,

Based on my viewing experiences on panels of that size that I already described on the other email
to Phil, please read it.

You can always look at them and find that the artifacts I mentioned are not bothering you.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:43 AM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Rodolfo,
Based on what you said, I would not consider burying a large LCD flat panel display until this
problem is greatly imporved.

Bob Bullock
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Richard,
>
> Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that time
> they were on the 12ms
> speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to mention
> on other lower class
> 20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are first
> noticed all one sees is
> just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.
>
> Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response time, so at
> least they have
> recognized that is a problem to correct.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> Richard Fisher
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:38 PM
> To: HDTV Magazine
> Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>
>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Does your experience include the Sharp Aquas LCD panels?
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard Fisher
> HD Library is Published by Tech Services
> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
> http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>
> Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine wrote:
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > Phil,
> >
> > I see now what you are referring to.
> >
> > It might be that is not much you can do externally with a better scaler to
> improve this problem.
> >
> > The loss of facial detail is most probably produced by the lag that is common
> on most LCDs that
> are
> > not fast enough for active images, reason by which I do not consider worth
> investing in large LCD
> > panels that are not yet on the 4ms range.
> >
> > This could also be the reason for the pin stripes disappearing when Leno
> moves.
> >
> > Pay attention to that effect and you would notice that when a person's head
> moves quickly the
> pixels
> > inside the skin area are not moving in sync to that speed and appear as the
> porous of the person's
> > face is moving independently of the head movement.
> >
> > On other type of content the lag problem could be masked by what is displayed
> on the image, but I
> > find easier to detect on the faces of people.
> >
> > I have noticed the effect you mention even on higher priced sets. I have no
> problem in tolerating
> > this defect on a 20" set for my kitchen, but I do with a 40"+ panel that could
> otherwise be
> replaced
> > by a good plasma that does not have that speed problem.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Rodolfo La Maestra
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> > Phil Pasteur
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:56 AM
> > To: HDTV Magazine
> > Subject: Deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P was: 720 projector vs. 1080p
> >
> >
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > The display does accept 1080P input through two DVI, one HDMI and two sets
> > of component inputs.
> > The question of whether a 1080P input actually is left untouched by the
> > internal scaler is a good one. I think that it is always in use as there is
> > a "fill" function that is active even when I send 1080P from the Helois up
> > converting DVD player. Several reviewers commented that they thought the
> > scaler in the display was very good. The reason I was looking for a good
> > 18080i to 1080P deinterlacer was that it seems that for certain program
> > material the image loses detail when there is movement. The example that I
> > was talking about with Leno was that he had a pinstripe suit on. When he
> > would move, the stripes would disappear. When he was still, they were
> > plainly visible. In other cases I have seen loss of facial detail with
> > movement. Interestingly this is not consistent across all program material.
> > Perhaps it is the source material rather than the display as was suggested.
> > I am using a Directv H20 receiver set to native mode, in which it is
> > supposed to pass through whatever format that it receives to feed the
> > display. I get Leno OTA if this makes any difference.
> >
> > I will keep in mind your suggestion about Lumagen and calibration.
> >
> > Phil P.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> > Richard Fisher
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 AM
> > To: HDTV Magazine
> > Subject: Re: 720 projector vs. 1080p
> >
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > > It seems by the answers that the is not much that will do the job as
> > of now
> > > that is not an exotic/ unaffordable (for me) unit
> >
> > Actually there may be no solution if the display does not accept a 1080P
> > signal and even then it would need to be tested to confirm that doing so
> > actually bypasses the internal scaler.
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >
> > To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> day) send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> >
> >
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> > [email protected]
> >
> >
>
>
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Well not for an accurate viewing application anyway...

It is all about application...

Richard Fisher
HD Library is Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php

[email protected] wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo,
> Based on what you said, I would not consider burying a large LCD flat panel display until this problem is greatly imporved.
>
> Bob Bullock
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Richard,
>>
>>Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that time
>>they were on the 12ms
>>speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to mention
>>on other lower class
>>20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are first
>>noticed all one sees is
>>just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.
>>
>>Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response time, so at
>>least they have
>>recognized that is a problem to correct.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>Richard Fisher
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:38 PM
>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>>
>>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Does your experience include the Sharp Aquas LCD panels?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Richard Fisher
>>HD Library is Published by Tech Services
>>A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>>http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>>
>>Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine wrote:
>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Phil,
>>>
>>>I see now what you are referring to.
>>>
>>>It might be that is not much you can do externally with a better scaler to
>>
>>improve this problem.
>>
>>>The loss of facial detail is most probably produced by the lag that is common
>>
>>on most LCDs that
>>are
>>
>>>not fast enough for active images, reason by which I do not consider worth
>>
>>investing in large LCD
>>
>>>panels that are not yet on the 4ms range.
>>>
>>>This could also be the reason for the pin stripes disappearing when Leno
>>
>>moves.
>>
>>>Pay attention to that effect and you would notice that when a person's head
>>
>>moves quickly the
>>pixels
>>
>>>inside the skin area are not moving in sync to that speed and appear as the
>>
>>porous of the person's
>>
>>>face is moving independently of the head movement.
>>>
>>>On other type of content the lag problem could be masked by what is displayed
>>
>>on the image, but I
>>
>>>find easier to detect on the faces of people.
>>>
>>>I have noticed the effect you mention even on higher priced sets. I have no
>>
>>problem in tolerating
>>
>>>this defect on a 20" set for my kitchen, but I do with a 40"+ panel that could
>>
>>otherwise be
>>replaced
>>
>>>by a good plasma that does not have that speed problem.
>>>
>>>Best Regards,
>>>
>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>Phil Pasteur
>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:56 AM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P was: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>>>
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> The display does accept 1080P input through two DVI, one HDMI and two sets
>>>of component inputs.
>>>The question of whether a 1080P input actually is left untouched by the
>>>internal scaler is a good one. I think that it is always in use as there is
>>>a "fill" function that is active even when I send 1080P from the Helois up
>>>converting DVD player. Several reviewers commented that they thought the
>>>scaler in the display was very good. The reason I was looking for a good
>>>18080i to 1080P deinterlacer was that it seems that for certain program
>>>material the image loses detail when there is movement. The example that I
>>>was talking about with Leno was that he had a pinstripe suit on. When he
>>>would move, the stripes would disappear. When he was still, they were
>>>plainly visible. In other cases I have seen loss of facial detail with
>>>movement. Interestingly this is not consistent across all program material.
>>>Perhaps it is the source material rather than the display as was suggested.
>>>I am using a Directv H20 receiver set to native mode, in which it is
>>>supposed to pass through whatever format that it receives to feed the
>>>display. I get Leno OTA if this makes any difference.
>>>
>>>I will keep in mind your suggestion about Lumagen and calibration.
>>>
>>>Phil P.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>Richard Fisher
>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 AM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> > It seems by the answers that the is not much that will do the job as
>>>of now
>>> > that is not an exotic/ unaffordable (for me) unit
>>>
>>>Actually there may be no solution if the display does not accept a 1080P
>>>signal and even then it would need to be tested to confirm that doing so
>>>actually bypasses the internal scaler.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>
>>day) send an email to:
>>
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>
>>day) send an email to:
>>
>>>[email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>send an email to:
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
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>>send an email to:
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>
>
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I have not seen this on my 45" Sharp Aquos. Maybe I am not looking hard
enough.



On 6/7/06 9:42 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
> Rodolfo,
> Based on what you said, I would not consider burying a large LCD flat panel
> display until this problem is greatly imporved.
>
> Bob Bullock
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Richard,
>>
>> Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that
>> time
>> they were on the 12ms
>> speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to
>> mention
>> on other lower class
>> 20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are first
>> noticed all one sees is
>> just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.
>>
>> Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response time, so
>> at
>> least they have
>> recognized that is a problem to correct.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Rodolfo La Maestra
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>> Richard Fisher
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:38 PM
>> To: HDTV Magazine
>> Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>>
>>
>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>> Does your experience include the Sharp Aquas LCD panels?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Richard Fisher
>> HD Library is Published by Tech Services
>> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>> http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>>
>> Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine wrote:
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> Phil,
>>>
>>> I see now what you are referring to.
>>>
>>> It might be that is not much you can do externally with a better scaler to
>> improve this problem.
>>>
>>> The loss of facial detail is most probably produced by the lag that is
>>> common
>> on most LCDs that
>> are
>>> not fast enough for active images, reason by which I do not consider worth
>> investing in large LCD
>>> panels that are not yet on the 4ms range.
>>>
>>> This could also be the reason for the pin stripes disappearing when Leno
>> moves.
>>>
>>> Pay attention to that effect and you would notice that when a person's head
>> moves quickly the
>> pixels
>>> inside the skin area are not moving in sync to that speed and appear as the
>> porous of the person's
>>> face is moving independently of the head movement.
>>>
>>> On other type of content the lag problem could be masked by what is
>>> displayed
>> on the image, but I
>>> find easier to detect on the faces of people.
>>>
>>> I have noticed the effect you mention even on higher priced sets. I have no
>> problem in tolerating
>>> this defect on a 20" set for my kitchen, but I do with a 40"+ panel that
>>> could
>> otherwise be
>> replaced
>>> by a good plasma that does not have that speed problem.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>> Phil Pasteur
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:56 AM
>>> To: HDTV Magazine
>>> Subject: Deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P was: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>> The display does accept 1080P input through two DVI, one HDMI and two sets
>>> of component inputs.
>>> The question of whether a 1080P input actually is left untouched by the
>>> internal scaler is a good one. I think that it is always in use as there is
>>> a "fill" function that is active even when I send 1080P from the Helois up
>>> converting DVD player. Several reviewers commented that they thought the
>>> scaler in the display was very good. The reason I was looking for a good
>>> 18080i to 1080P deinterlacer was that it seems that for certain program
>>> material the image loses detail when there is movement. The example that I
>>> was talking about with Leno was that he had a pinstripe suit on. When he
>>> would move, the stripes would disappear. When he was still, they were
>>> plainly visible. In other cases I have seen loss of facial detail with
>>> movement. Interestingly this is not consistent across all program material.
>>> Perhaps it is the source material rather than the display as was suggested.
>>> I am using a Directv H20 receiver set to native mode, in which it is
>>> supposed to pass through whatever format that it receives to feed the
>>> display. I get Leno OTA if this makes any difference.
>>>
>>> I will keep in mind your suggestion about Lumagen and calibration.
>>>
>>> Phil P.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>> Richard Fisher
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 AM
>>> To: HDTV Magazine
>>> Subject: Re: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>>>
>>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>> It seems by the answers that the is not much that will do the job as
>>> of now
>>>> that is not an exotic/ unaffordable (for me) unit
>>>
>>> Actually there may be no solution if the display does not accept a 1080P
>>> signal and even then it would need to be tested to confirm that doing so
>>> actually bypasses the internal scaler.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>> day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>
>>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>> day) send an email to:
>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>> day)
>> send an email to:
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
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>> day)
>> send an email to:
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>
>
>
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I dunno... wish I was there but I don't think this is an LCD issue as
much as a design issue...

I am using an LCD for my PC, love it, no problems... well big ones
anyway. I have seen them in the stores, Sharp, looked fine.

Saw an Olevia the other day, not so good...

On the other hand Rodolfo claims they all do it.

Richard Fisher
HD Library is Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php

James Healy wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>
> I have not seen this on my 45" Sharp Aquos. Maybe I am not looking hard
> enough.
>
>
>
> On 6/7/06 9:42 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Rodolfo,
>>Based on what you said, I would not consider burying a large LCD flat panel
>>display until this problem is greatly imporved.
>>
>>Bob Bullock
>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>>From: "Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Richard,
>>>
>>>Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that
>>>time
>>>they were on the 12ms
>>>speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to
>>>mention
>>>on other lower class
>>>20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are first
>>>noticed all one sees is
>>>just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.
>>>
>>>Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response time, so
>>>at
>>>least they have
>>>recognized that is a problem to correct.
>>>
>>>Best Regards,
>>>
>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>Richard Fisher
>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:38 PM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>>>
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Does your experience include the Sharp Aquas LCD panels?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Richard Fisher
>>>HD Library is Published by Tech Services
>>>A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>>>http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>>>
>>>Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine wrote:
>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>>Phil,
>>>>
>>>>I see now what you are referring to.
>>>>
>>>>It might be that is not much you can do externally with a better scaler to
>>>
>>>improve this problem.
>>>
>>>>The loss of facial detail is most probably produced by the lag that is
>>>>common
>>>
>>>on most LCDs that
>>>are
>>>
>>>>not fast enough for active images, reason by which I do not consider worth
>>>
>>>investing in large LCD
>>>
>>>>panels that are not yet on the 4ms range.
>>>>
>>>>This could also be the reason for the pin stripes disappearing when Leno
>>>
>>>moves.
>>>
>>>>Pay attention to that effect and you would notice that when a person's head
>>>
>>>moves quickly the
>>>pixels
>>>
>>>>inside the skin area are not moving in sync to that speed and appear as the
>>>
>>>porous of the person's
>>>
>>>>face is moving independently of the head movement.
>>>>
>>>>On other type of content the lag problem could be masked by what is
>>>>displayed
>>>
>>>on the image, but I
>>>
>>>>find easier to detect on the faces of people.
>>>>
>>>>I have noticed the effect you mention even on higher priced sets. I have no
>>>
>>>problem in tolerating
>>>
>>>>this defect on a 20" set for my kitchen, but I do with a 40"+ panel that
>>>>could
>>>
>>>otherwise be
>>>replaced
>>>
>>>>by a good plasma that does not have that speed problem.
>>>>
>>>>Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>>Phil Pasteur
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:56 AM
>>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>>Subject: Deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P was: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>> The display does accept 1080P input through two DVI, one HDMI and two sets
>>>>of component inputs.
>>>>The question of whether a 1080P input actually is left untouched by the
>>>>internal scaler is a good one. I think that it is always in use as there is
>>>>a "fill" function that is active even when I send 1080P from the Helois up
>>>>converting DVD player. Several reviewers commented that they thought the
>>>>scaler in the display was very good. The reason I was looking for a good
>>>>18080i to 1080P deinterlacer was that it seems that for certain program
>>>>material the image loses detail when there is movement. The example that I
>>>>was talking about with Leno was that he had a pinstripe suit on. When he
>>>>would move, the stripes would disappear. When he was still, they were
>>>>plainly visible. In other cases I have seen loss of facial detail with
>>>>movement. Interestingly this is not consistent across all program material.
>>>>Perhaps it is the source material rather than the display as was suggested.
>>>>I am using a Directv H20 receiver set to native mode, in which it is
>>>>supposed to pass through whatever format that it receives to feed the
>>>>display. I get Leno OTA if this makes any difference.
>>>>
>>>>I will keep in mind your suggestion about Lumagen and calibration.
>>>>
>>>>Phil P.
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>>Richard Fisher
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 AM
>>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>>Subject: Re: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It seems by the answers that the is not much that will do the job as
>>>>
>>>>of now
>>>>
>>>>>that is not an exotic/ unaffordable (for me) unit
>>>>
>>>>Actually there may be no solution if the display does not accept a 1080P
>>>>signal and even then it would need to be tested to confirm that doing so
>>>>actually bypasses the internal scaler.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>>
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>
>>>>[email protected]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>>
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>
>>>>[email protected]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>day)
>>>send an email to:
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>day)
>>>send an email to:
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>>
>>
>>
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>>day) send an email to:
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>
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James,

Do not look that hard, enjoy your set, that is the objective. As Bob said, you seem to have chosen
a very good deal with that set.

This is like telling people how look for a rainbow effect produced by a DLP color wheel, if they do
not see it, then let it be that way and enjoy, when I notice those things I feel I have an
obligation to make people aware of what to look for so they can select a set better, but not to hate
the set they already have; it is a very fine line James, and sometimes it creates more enemies than
satisfied people.

Regarding; "Rodolfo claims they all do it" I would not put it so radical Richard, some LCDs are
better than others, some LCDs are weaker on lag performance than others, if lag reduction would not
be a feature to improve, manufacturers would have kept doing LCD sets with 20ms lag regardless of
size.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Richard Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:14 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image


----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I dunno... wish I was there but I don't think this is an LCD issue as
much as a design issue...

I am using an LCD for my PC, love it, no problems... well big ones
anyway. I have seen them in the stores, Sharp, looked fine.

Saw an Olevia the other day, not so good...

On the other hand Rodolfo claims they all do it.

Richard Fisher
HD Library is Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php

James Healy wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>
> I have not seen this on my 45" Sharp Aquos. Maybe I am not looking hard
> enough.
>
>
>
> On 6/7/06 9:42 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Rodolfo,
>>Based on what you said, I would not consider burying a large LCD flat panel
>>display until this problem is greatly imporved.
>>
>>Bob Bullock
>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>>From: "Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Richard,
>>>
>>>Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that
>>>time
>>>they were on the 12ms
>>>speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to
>>>mention
>>>on other lower class
>>>20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are first
>>>noticed all one sees is
>>>just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.
>>>
>>>Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response time, so
>>>at
>>>least they have
>>>recognized that is a problem to correct.
>>>
>>>Best Regards,
>>>
>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>Richard Fisher
>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:38 PM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>>>
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Does your experience include the Sharp Aquas LCD panels?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Richard Fisher
>>>HD Library is Published by Tech Services
>>>A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>>>http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>>>
>>>Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine wrote:
>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>>Phil,
>>>>
>>>>I see now what you are referring to.
>>>>
>>>>It might be that is not much you can do externally with a better scaler to
>>>
>>>improve this problem.
>>>
>>>>The loss of facial detail is most probably produced by the lag that is
>>>>common
>>>
>>>on most LCDs that
>>>are
>>>
>>>>not fast enough for active images, reason by which I do not consider worth
>>>
>>>investing in large LCD
>>>
>>>>panels that are not yet on the 4ms range.
>>>>
>>>>This could also be the reason for the pin stripes disappearing when Leno
>>>
>>>moves.
>>>
>>>>Pay attention to that effect and you would notice that when a person's head
>>>
>>>moves quickly the
>>>pixels
>>>
>>>>inside the skin area are not moving in sync to that speed and appear as the
>>>
>>>porous of the person's
>>>
>>>>face is moving independently of the head movement.
>>>>
>>>>On other type of content the lag problem could be masked by what is
>>>>displayed
>>>
>>>on the image, but I
>>>
>>>>find easier to detect on the faces of people.
>>>>
>>>>I have noticed the effect you mention even on higher priced sets. I have no
>>>
>>>problem in tolerating
>>>
>>>>this defect on a 20" set for my kitchen, but I do with a 40"+ panel that
>>>>could
>>>
>>>otherwise be
>>>replaced
>>>
>>>>by a good plasma that does not have that speed problem.
>>>>
>>>>Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>>Phil Pasteur
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:56 AM
>>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>>Subject: Deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P was: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>> The display does accept 1080P input through two DVI, one HDMI and two sets
>>>>of component inputs.
>>>>The question of whether a 1080P input actually is left untouched by the
>>>>internal scaler is a good one. I think that it is always in use as there is
>>>>a "fill" function that is active even when I send 1080P from the Helois up
>>>>converting DVD player. Several reviewers commented that they thought the
>>>>scaler in the display was very good. The reason I was looking for a good
>>>>18080i to 1080P deinterlacer was that it seems that for certain program
>>>>material the image loses detail when there is movement. The example that I
>>>>was talking about with Leno was that he had a pinstripe suit on. When he
>>>>would move, the stripes would disappear. When he was still, they were
>>>>plainly visible. In other cases I have seen loss of facial detail with
>>>>movement. Interestingly this is not consistent across all program material.
>>>>Perhaps it is the source material rather than the display as was suggested.
>>>>I am using a Directv H20 receiver set to native mode, in which it is
>>>>supposed to pass through whatever format that it receives to feed the
>>>>display. I get Leno OTA if this makes any difference.
>>>>
>>>>I will keep in mind your suggestion about Lumagen and calibration.
>>>>
>>>>Phil P.
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>>Richard Fisher
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 AM
>>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>>Subject: Re: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It seems by the answers that the is not much that will do the job as
>>>>
>>>>of now
>>>>
>>>>>that is not an exotic/ unaffordable (for me) unit
>>>>
>>>>Actually there may be no solution if the display does not accept a 1080P
>>>>signal and even then it would need to be tested to confirm that doing so
>>>>actually bypasses the internal scaler.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
>>>
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>day) send an email to:
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>>>>[email protected]
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>>>>
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>>>
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

James,
Sharp is claming a 4ms response time for your Aquos. Maybe that speed has solved the problem.
Bob
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: James Healy <[email protected]>
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>
> I have not seen this on my 45" Sharp Aquos. Maybe I am not looking hard
> enough.
>
>
>
> On 6/7/06 9:42 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >
> > Rodolfo,
> > Based on what you said, I would not consider burying a large LCD flat panel
> > display until this problem is greatly imporved.
> >
> > Bob Bullock
> > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > From: "Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
> >> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >>
> >> Richard,
> >>
> >> Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that
> >> time
> >> they were on the 12ms
> >> speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to
> >> mention
> >> on other lower class
> >> 20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are first
> >> noticed all one sees is
> >> just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.
> >>
> >> Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response time, so
> >> at
> >> least they have
> >> recognized that is a problem to correct.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >>
> >> Rodolfo La Maestra
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> >> Richard Fisher
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:38 PM
> >> To: HDTV Magazine
> >> Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >>
> >> Does your experience include the Sharp Aquas LCD panels?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Richard Fisher
> >> HD Library is Published by Tech Services
> >> A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
> >> http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
> >>
> >> Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine wrote:
> >>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >>>
> >>> Phil,
> >>>
> >>> I see now what you are referring to.
> >>>
> >>> It might be that is not much you can do externally with a better scaler to
> >> improve this problem.
> >>>
> >>> The loss of facial detail is most probably produced by the lag that is
> >>> common
> >> on most LCDs that
> >> are
> >>> not fast enough for active images, reason by which I do not consider worth
> >> investing in large LCD
> >>> panels that are not yet on the 4ms range.
> >>>
> >>> This could also be the reason for the pin stripes disappearing when Leno
> >> moves.
> >>>
> >>> Pay attention to that effect and you would notice that when a person's head
> >> moves quickly the
> >> pixels
> >>> inside the skin area are not moving in sync to that speed and appear as the
> >> porous of the person's
> >>> face is moving independently of the head movement.
> >>>
> >>> On other type of content the lag problem could be masked by what is
> >>> displayed
> >> on the image, but I
> >>> find easier to detect on the faces of people.
> >>>
> >>> I have noticed the effect you mention even on higher priced sets. I have no
> >> problem in tolerating
> >>> this defect on a 20" set for my kitchen, but I do with a 40"+ panel that
> >>> could
> >> otherwise be
> >> replaced
> >>> by a good plasma that does not have that speed problem.
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Rodolfo La Maestra
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> >>> Phil Pasteur
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:56 AM
> >>> To: HDTV Magazine
> >>> Subject: Deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P was: 720 projector vs. 1080p
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >>>
> >>> The display does accept 1080P input through two DVI, one HDMI and two sets
> >>> of component inputs.
> >>> The question of whether a 1080P input actually is left untouched by the
> >>> internal scaler is a good one. I think that it is always in use as there is
> >>> a "fill" function that is active even when I send 1080P from the Helois up
> >>> converting DVD player. Several reviewers commented that they thought the
> >>> scaler in the display was very good. The reason I was looking for a good
> >>> 18080i to 1080P deinterlacer was that it seems that for certain program
> >>> material the image loses detail when there is movement. The example that I
> >>> was talking about with Leno was that he had a pinstripe suit on. When he
> >>> would move, the stripes would disappear. When he was still, they were
> >>> plainly visible. In other cases I have seen loss of facial detail with
> >>> movement. Interestingly this is not consistent across all program material.
> >>> Perhaps it is the source material rather than the display as was suggested.
> >>> I am using a Directv H20 receiver set to native mode, in which it is
> >>> supposed to pass through whatever format that it receives to feed the
> >>> display. I get Leno OTA if this makes any difference.
> >>>
> >>> I will keep in mind your suggestion about Lumagen and calibration.
> >>>
> >>> Phil P.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
> >>> Richard Fisher
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 AM
> >>> To: HDTV Magazine
> >>> Subject: Re: 720 projector vs. 1080p
> >>>
> >>> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
> >>>
> >>>> It seems by the answers that the is not much that will do the job as
> >>> of now
> >>>> that is not an exotic/ unaffordable (for me) unit
> >>>
> >>> Actually there may be no solution if the display does not accept a 1080P
> >>> signal and even then it would need to be tested to confirm that doing so
> >>> actually bypasses the internal scaler.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >>>
> >>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> >> day) send an email to:
> >>> [email protected]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
> >>>
> >>> To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that same
> >> day) send an email to:
> >>> [email protected]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >> day)
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----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Hi guys,

I haven't been following this thread completely, but I must comment on the
Sharp Aquos. They are among the worst LCD flat panels I have seen. The
biggest problem with them is that they bob 1080i hd sources instead of
weaving them so there is a huge loss of resolution with 1080i HD material.
The other big problem is that you literally can't calibrate the grayscale as
the service menu is an utter nightmare. To add insult to injury the Color
Decoding is among the worst I have seen in many years and can only be
marginally improved with the CMS system on the upper end models.

Kevin Miller
ISFTV
Phone: 718-274-0236
Email: [email protected]
Web Site: www.ISFTV.COM
Founding Imaging Science Foundation Member since 1994
Industry Consultant ~ ISF Instructor
Contributing Editor to CNET.COM, The Perfect Vision & AVRev.com



-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
Richard Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:14 PM
To: HDTV Magazine
Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

I dunno... wish I was there but I don't think this is an LCD issue as
much as a design issue...

I am using an LCD for my PC, love it, no problems... well big ones
anyway. I have seen them in the stores, Sharp, looked fine.

Saw an Olevia the other day, not so good...

On the other hand Rodolfo claims they all do it.

Richard Fisher
HD Library is Published by Tech Services
A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php

James Healy wrote:
> ----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>
>
> I have not seen this on my 45" Sharp Aquos. Maybe I am not looking hard
> enough.
>
>
>
> On 6/7/06 9:42 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>
>>Rodolfo,
>>Based on what you said, I would not consider burying a large LCD flat
panel
>>display until this problem is greatly imporved.
>>
>>Bob Bullock
>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>>From: "Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine" <[email protected]>
>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Richard,
>>>
>>>Yes. Since they came out as prototypes at CES on the 45"+ range, at that
>>>time
>>>they were on the 12ms
>>>speed but I still see the effect even on the 8ms improved units, not to
>>>mention
>>>on other lower class
>>>20ms of other brands, they are very annoying. When the artifacts are
first
>>>noticed all one sees is
>>>just the artifact, not the content, unfortunately.
>>>
>>>Large LCD displays are gradually going faster and faster in response
time, so
>>>at
>>>least they have
>>>recognized that is a problem to correct.
>>>
>>>Best Regards,
>>>
>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>Richard Fisher
>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:38 PM
>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>Subject: Re: Westinghouse LCD image
>>>
>>>
>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>
>>>Does your experience include the Sharp Aquas LCD panels?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Richard Fisher
>>>HD Library is Published by Tech Services
>>>A division of Mastertech Repair Corporation
>>>http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/index.php
>>>
>>>Rodolfo La Maestra - HDTV Magazine wrote:
>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>>Phil,
>>>>
>>>>I see now what you are referring to.
>>>>
>>>>It might be that is not much you can do externally with a better scaler
to
>>>
>>>improve this problem.
>>>
>>>>The loss of facial detail is most probably produced by the lag that is
>>>>common
>>>
>>>on most LCDs that
>>>are
>>>
>>>>not fast enough for active images, reason by which I do not consider
worth
>>>
>>>investing in large LCD
>>>
>>>>panels that are not yet on the 4ms range.
>>>>
>>>>This could also be the reason for the pin stripes disappearing when Leno
>>>
>>>moves.
>>>
>>>>Pay attention to that effect and you would notice that when a person's
head
>>>
>>>moves quickly the
>>>pixels
>>>
>>>>inside the skin area are not moving in sync to that speed and appear as
the
>>>
>>>porous of the person's
>>>
>>>>face is moving independently of the head movement.
>>>>
>>>>On other type of content the lag problem could be masked by what is
>>>>displayed
>>>
>>>on the image, but I
>>>
>>>>find easier to detect on the faces of people.
>>>>
>>>>I have noticed the effect you mention even on higher priced sets. I
have no
>>>
>>>problem in tolerating
>>>
>>>>this defect on a 20" set for my kitchen, but I do with a 40"+ panel that
>>>>could
>>>
>>>otherwise be
>>>replaced
>>>
>>>>by a good plasma that does not have that speed problem.
>>>>
>>>>Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Rodolfo La Maestra
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf Of
>>>>Phil Pasteur
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:56 AM
>>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>>Subject: Deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P was: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>> The display does accept 1080P input through two DVI, one HDMI and two
sets
>>>>of component inputs.
>>>>The question of whether a 1080P input actually is left untouched by the
>>>>internal scaler is a good one. I think that it is always in use as there
is
>>>>a "fill" function that is active even when I send 1080P from the Helois
up
>>>>converting DVD player. Several reviewers commented that they thought the
>>>>scaler in the display was very good. The reason I was looking for a good
>>>>18080i to 1080P deinterlacer was that it seems that for certain program
>>>>material the image loses detail when there is movement. The example that
I
>>>>was talking about with Leno was that he had a pinstripe suit on. When he
>>>>would move, the stripes would disappear. When he was still, they were
>>>>plainly visible. In other cases I have seen loss of facial detail with
>>>>movement. Interestingly this is not consistent across all program
material.
>>>>Perhaps it is the source material rather than the display as was
suggested.
>>>>I am using a Directv H20 receiver set to native mode, in which it is
>>>>supposed to pass through whatever format that it receives to feed the
>>>>display. I get Leno OTA if this makes any difference.
>>>>
>>>>I will keep in mind your suggestion about Lumagen and calibration.
>>>>
>>>>Phil P.
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: HDTV Magazine On Behalf
Of
>>>>Richard Fisher
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 AM
>>>>To: HDTV Magazine
>>>>Subject: Re: 720 projector vs. 1080p
>>>>
>>>>----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It seems by the answers that the is not much that will do the job as
>>>>
>>>>of now
>>>>
>>>>>that is not an exotic/ unaffordable (for me) unit
>>>>
>>>>Actually there may be no solution if the display does not accept a 1080P
>>>>signal and even then it would need to be tested to confirm that doing so
>>>>actually bypasses the internal scaler.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same
>>>
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>
>>>>[email protected]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
>>>>
>>>>To receive the digest mode (one email a day made from all posted that
same
>>>
>>>day) send an email to:
>>>
>>>>[email protected]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe please click: [email protected]
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same
>>>day)
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same
>>>day)
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