Question about HD Audio: DVD vs. OTA

[Richard]

If I understand the last post correctly, you are saying that the audio on many DVDs sucks!

What I was trying to say is that the audio from the DVD version is better than the HD broadcast version.

As for DVD movie audio in general... ya, it varies... We just watched two movies in row where I had to turn up the volume past normal and then the next night another where it was normal...

[hoopnoop]

Nice to know others have experienced the same thing. I never thought of the bit rate issue but it makes sense. The thing that is ashamed about it is that if you want to watch a movie in HD, such as the Lord of the Rings which is coming to TNT HD and has been on Starz, then you sacrifice sound quality. Like Donshan, I notice this the most with respect to surround sound effects -- I just don't get the same feeling for OTA broadcasts.

Partly because I have an upconverting DVD player, I actually prefer most action movies on DVD because of the superior sound. I'm even thinking of dropping my subscription to HBO.

This does seem like a somewhat neglected issue of discussion at least to those of us who want to maximize both PQ and sound quality.

[akirby]

Since I have a native 480p display and a screen that's not huge (55") I greatly prefer movies on DVD where I can not only pause them but skip chapters, see how much time is left, get a DTS soundtrack on most and get all the extras, not to mention watch them at my convenience and without commercials.

I'll take sports, special events and series in HD but I'll keep my DVDs for movies.

[tombanjo1]

Maybe DVD sound is better then broadcast 5.1 but what does that mean? The sound on these DVD's is nothing special. In fact, most of them are a mess, with the biggest problem being muddled dialogue (or just too much focus) coming through the center channel. Seems like if they throw some loud explosions through the subwoofer and make a couple of cool pans through the five channels that it's enough. Maybe there's just not enough space on the current format to give the audio side it's due, or maybe they just don't care enough about it, but the bottom line is the same. DVD sound is severely lacking.

Not to worry though, help is on the way. Both new HD DVD formats have announced that they will include high rez SACD like audio to go along with the pristine picture. Nirvana is just around the corner!

[akirby]

I think you're confusing poor sound mixing and audio production with a format limitation. Or you have enormously high standards. What is your home audio setup?

There are numerous well produced DD and DTS soundtracks out there that sound absolutely great to me. There are a lot more that are done quickly and cheaply. Anything can be improved but that doesn't mean the current format is bad.

[tombanjo2]

I think you're confusing poor sound mixing and audio production with a format limitation. Or you have enormously high standards. What is your home audio setup?

There are numerous well produced DD and DTS soundtracks out there that sound absolutely great to me. There are a lot more that are done quickly and cheaply. Anything can be improved but that doesn't mean the current format is bad.

I guess I'm coming off snobby here and I don't want to. The way I look at it is we invest all this money in hardware, multi channel amps or fancy feature laden receivers, speakers (X5 or 6), source components, displays, cables galore..on and on. You get the idea. Then you have the wife factor to deal with after you get everything you want. No easy task there buddy!

Anyone who has a home theater set up has invested thousands or even in the five figure area. I personally have spent a long time and a lot of money buying, selling and trading up. All I'm asking is that the software measure up to the hardware's capabilities. The technology is there. Just listen to a multi channel SACD or DVD Audio disc and you'll notice a huge difference. To me it's like buying a fancy race car and putting in some cheap grade gasoline. Your gear is not being used to it's full potential. Believe me, if your picture were the least bit off you'd notice. Why not the same high standards for sound?

Is the current DVD sound bad? Some are better then most, but no, it's not "bad." But it's not nearly good enough as it should be. I guess I have high standards but I sure paid enough to earn that right. Like I said before, when the new format HD DVD's come out with hi rez audio all this will be moot.

Samsung 60" DLP (forgot the model #)
Samsung HD841 DVD
Sunfire Grand Sig. Power Amp
Sunfire Theater Grand III Pre-amp
Revel M-20 (4) + Revel F30 center
Earthquake Super Nova 18" sub
Directv HD TiVo

[akirby]

I think it's the same reason HD video is just now catching on with the masses. Only recently are people starting to buy high quality multi-channel HT audio setups where the difference can be heard. A lot of people still use their TV speakers and a lot more are using cheap systems.

It's also a matter of cost. Some movie producers probably don't see the need for spending extra on the soundtrack and feel (probably correctly) that the vast majority of viewers don't care.

[tombanjo2]

You're right, but if they build it, won't they come? Maybe not though. I have two friends that I hooked up with some kick ass speakers and receivers from the used market because they love music and were listening through some crappy and antique equipment. They just didn't realize it. So what do they do? They hook up an iPod to it with all that lousy compressed sound instead of a decent CD player and wind up with the same sound they had before! You can lead a horse to water.......

[hoopnoop]

Well, I'm not a sound guru at all and just have a basic Onkyo system. I have found it very satisfying for DVDs and CDs. The surround sound effects for movies like Lord of the Rings is great! But, having watched that movie on T&THD over the weekend again confirmed for me that the sound quality OTA is not nearly as good as dvd (in most cases). There were a number of scenes including the early one with the party at Hobbiton and fireworks in which the sound quality simply was not close to that on dvd.

[Tombanjo]

I think you're confusing poor sound mixing and audio production with a format limitation. Or you have enormously high standards. What is your home audio setup?

There are numerous well produced DD and DTS soundtracks out there that sound absolutely great to me. There are a lot more that are done quickly and cheaply. Anything can be improved but that doesn't mean the current format is bad.

Ok, I've done a little reading up on this subject. Both Dolby Digital and DTS need to compromise the sound in order to fit in with the limitations of the current DVD format. DD encodes 5.1 channels at just 348,000bits per seconds. That's about 1/10 of the data rate of a CD, which is itself compromised in resolution. DTS is better at 1.5 million bits per second, but neither comes close to hi rez audio.

Both new DVD formats, Blu-ray and HD DVD will feature (mandatory) new audio formats. Dolby Digital Plus and DTS+. Both new formats will have plenty of room for the Hi Rez audio. Blu-ray with 200GB and HD DVD with 30GB.

I know we'll need to buy new DVD players, but I'm praying that I don't need to shell out for a new pre/pro! Maybe DD and DTS will be kind and allow the signals to be passed through unprocessed like SACD's and DVDA's.