SA8000 is unreliable

[geskel]

Since it

[Tombanjo]

I have it too. That unit froze up on two of my recordings, both ABC shows, and had major glitches on a couple of other ABC shows. I wonder if ABC is imbeding some sort of flag that screws the SA8000 up in knots? I only took the 8000 on a trial basis becasue Comcast offered it up complete with their silver programming package for only $9.95 a month for a year.

I have had both Comcast and Directv for about five months now and while I admit that I'm predisposed toward D*, I still see a wide difference in performance. The cable HD has major and frequent audio dropouts on all channels, and frequent picture dropouts on live events. As it happens, my HD TiVo froze up with 2:00mins left in the game last night (seems like that unit has a major problem when it gets "overloaded" with commands. I set the record for the game which ended at 10:00pm, and also set it to record the next FOX show as not to miss any of the game. I was watching it live though, and when the recording stopped it's 6:00pm to 10:00pm block and was about to start it's next recording, I happened to hit pause and the whole thing froze up!) Panic set in among the dozen people I had over, but not to worry, because I quickly switched over to the cable feed. Imagine having a house full of angry fans waiting for the lengthy TiVo reboot process?:)

Anyway, this gave me an opportunity to directly compare both services and the D* 'cast won handily. The picture wasn't as sharp on cable and there were frequent audio and video dropouts. No contest. Cable is still in it's infancy with HD while D* is an old hand already.

[akirby]

To be fair, this depends entirely on your local cable provider. There are bad ones and great ones. I'm a DirecTV fan myself but I've heard several cases where cable has a better picture and none of the problems you've encountered.

One area where cable is certainly deficient IMO is receiver hardware. I'm hoping with CableCards they'll start allowing 3rd party mfrs like Sony or Philips to make them instead of Motorola and SA.

[donshan]

I set the record for the game which ended at 10:00pm, and also set it to record the next FOX show as not to miss any of the game. I was watching it live though, and when the recording stopped it's 6:00pm to 10:00pm block and was about to start it's next recording, I happened to hit pause and the whole thing froze up .

With the DirecTV HD Tivo (Hr10-250. You can add extra time using the recording options and avoid this break in recording. If you just click on a program in the Guide (vs. using the record menu system) it sets the record time to the time listed in the Guide. If you then go to the "to do" list and click on that program, there is a recording options oval that will let you add extra time to the recording from 1 extra minute, to up to 3 extra hours . Tivo added this feature especially for sports events that may run over schedule.

As to freeze ups my D* HD Tivo has never had one. On a couple of occasions it started to record and then quit after a few seconds, but never a freeze.

All these boxes are computers, and all computers occasionally freeze up and require a reset. The problem is most often an internal error in handling the data stream, and the firmware software program not knowing how to handle the mistake, so it then stops processing the data stream and never gets to "what should I do next". The box firmware did not expect a "pause' instruction in the middle of a program switch and got confused.

The error can be as simple as a "noise" glitch on the cable so one data bit (1 or 0) is received wrong, creating a wrong number. The box designer has to assume that there will be wrong data received occasionally, and plan for these errors in the firmware. In computer programs it is common to add steps to check the validity of the data at the input with "if this then do that instructions" and reject data that would cause a "fatal error" when it is received. This is one reason we see constant updates to internal software, and buying one with version 3.1 of the internal software is better than a new box with version 1.0 software. In the old days of analog, noise on the line might produce a couple of white scan lines you hardly notice. With all things digital, it needs to be "perfect" data, or you may get nothing at all.

Another error type is buffer data overflow. Data is stored in a memory buffer, before writing to the hard disk in a DVR. If the processor does not finish writing each segment in time it might cause the incoming data to overflow the buffer losing essential data before it can be processed. Speed is essential in the hardware and hard disk fragmentation can cause a "write" slow down.

Ever have a DVD freeze because of a fingerprint or dirt on the disk? Lost data instructions here too.

Finally Tivo was first to develop the DVR and they hold a number of patents on the software which permits the viewer to watch a program while it is being recorded at the same time. Competitors are forced to invent new ways to do this in their software to get around the Tivo patents, and can't legally use the Tivo methods without permission.

[blastphemy]

[quote="geskel"]I

[geskel]

Thanks, Dan, for the great essay on software. Makes sense.

And thanks to all for your responses.

Today, the SA8300 HD was installed. Hopefully, the software is improved as well as whatever hardware modifications are included. I

[Hugh]

Tell us what you think of the 8300. I've had the 8000 since May and have not encountered the problems you mentioned although it does have its issues. The 8300 is available now but I have not had the time to go pick it up but I've heard it is a substantial improvement with a slightly better picture on both HD an SD.

Hugh Campbell
Charlotte, NC

[geskel]

Prompted by Hugh

[HDLarry]

Tell us what you think of the 8300. I've had the 8000 since May and have not encountered the problems you mentioned although it does have its issues. The 8300 is available now but I have not had the time to go pick it up but I've heard it is a substantial improvement with a slightly better picture on both HD an SD.

Hugh Campbell
Charlotte, NC

Consider yourself very lucky. You’re the only one that I know of that hasn’t had a mad desire to take a sledge hammer to the SA8000HD. I went through three units with TWC/NY, (SA8000HD with passport).

Fortunately, the 8300’s surfaced here this month to the delight of the extremely angry and frustrated. It has more features and is light years better than its pos predecessor. Principally, the picture is superior in both HD and SD. The unit has an improved search mode. The component and S Video connections function simultaneously. This feature allows for the use of my display’s screen modes in SD. Overall, it is far superior to the 8000. I suggest taking it for a spin.

[blastphemy]

The "new" SA8000 installed to replace my previous two has significant audio problems when fast-forwarding or rewinding. Looks like it's already time for a replacement... in less than a month, this time! Hopefully the tech will bring out the SA8300 this time.