Toshiba LCD 06 - lines/bars in panel

[lilzeus]

My experience with Toshiba has also been very poor. I have/had a 47LZ196, their top of the line LCD at the time. First it had a bad HDMI 2 port which took 3.5 months to repair. From day 1 of ownership I also noticed I had these 'ghost bars' on the display. I had hoped the new 'seine board' they were using to repair the HDMI 2 port would also fix that problem. No luck there.

I dealt with the bars for a while until finally the one on the right side of the display started to become a dark pencil-wide line down my display. I had enough of dealing with that issue and called it in. This time they took my TV away for the duration, so I am left with nothing.

Toshiba Customer Solutions only recently 'opened a case' for this issue. None was opened for the HDMI 2 port problem and each time I called them the rep simply directed me to one of their authorized service centers or offered an apology. The current issue will require a whole 'new panel' to repair...essentially the entire display of the TV. And guess what, that particular part is on back order. Of course they have no idea when that will be in.

Several things about my experience with their Customer Solutions really are twisted. For one, they dont feel that my experience 'merits' a refund or replacement. They have said that in 30 days THEN we can discuss 'other options' which is defined as a refund, replacement or a refurb. My prior experience which took 3.5 months to resolve has no bearing on their 'merit' calculations. The supervisor had the nerve to threaten to take away my chance at these 'other options'. He also informed me that if I had opened a case when I first called in that my prior issue would have certainly been resolved much faster. How am I supposed to know that? As if we customers are supposed to have some kind of intimate knowledge of the business process of Toshiba Customer Solutions. This new panel repair along with the prior repair will likely push the cost of repairing my TV over and beyond the cost to make it not to mention the fact that they will lose me and everyone I know as future customers but they have obviously weighed all possible outcomes and still feel that repairing the TV is the 'fairest and best solution for all parties involved'.

Rather than go into a longer rant, I have been logging my experience with them at avsforum.com and you can read about it there.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... ost9820216

[Richard]

It was the fault of your service center in not telling you to contact Toshiba on that first problem. While you may think 30 days is long at least Toshiba has that policy unlike others that would tell you to go pound sand.

This is for sure - all are going down hill in a race to the bottom for price, price, price and part of that is done by removing warranty service dollars from us, the service center, which only leads to poor service. The manufacturers and the consumers are not making it easy on us.

TV makers must constantly decide whether add-ons such as good customer service, tech support and design are worth it.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industrie ... -lcd_N.htm

[Richard]

My response gnawed at me... These posts are not easy for me because I can't clone myself or my services across the nation. Money plays a role also but...

If you were my customer I would have told you to contact Toshiba about the back ordered part to get a file started for that 30 day window and I also would have checked out your TV with a pattern generator to reveal your problem and told you then and there the bars had nothing to do with the Seine CBA. It is unfortunate that the hoops you and the service center need to jump through were lost somewhere along the way...

I have some very happy Toshiba customers with problems such as yours who felt they were taken care of - sorry you were not one of them...

All I can add for others reading this is, if you have problem pursue it now rather than later! Keep your sales receipt for at least 7 years. An extended warranty can work for you as well as against you.

Extended Warranties...Yes or No?
viewtopic.php?t=3214

[lilzeus]

Richard,

Please read my latest post at the avsforum for a very enlightening update on my current experience. Or I could post it here but it might be seen as malicious spamming. I don't know.

I'm not really here or on any other forum specifically to bash anyone (Toshiba) purposefully. I am merely reporting my experience as accurately as possible along with occasionally giving my opinion on what is happening. I feel its important for others to know. I also feel it is important for others and myself to not feel alone in this experience.

[Richard]

Your last post at AVS is easier described than quoted; you found out the replacement LCD panel is more than the TV. If you lose the panel you lost the TV because it is not economical. It has always been that way for CRT DV, plasma and LCD when repaired out of warranty. In warranty is a different story...

What is the date of purchase?

Snow storm, part supposed to arrive but didn't, revised part comes in but is wrong part for my set, 2nd part arrives broken, 3rd part finally came in and installed over 3 months after I called it in.

On our site you made it seem as if you were waiting on a part for 3 months, that was not the case and regardless of the downtime that won't trigger an exchange in this industry - pick your manufacturer.

This is the reason I recommend brick and mortar retailers so you can get it exchanged in special cases like this. Yup, that is why they charge more too!

During all this time when friends asked, 'how do you like your TV' I have just bit my lip and said how much I love it. I am embarrassed to say that I spent a ton of money on a defective TV. When people ask you that type of question they are interested to see if you made a good purchase, word of mouth advertising.

Huh? That is the free market in action and you do everybody a dis-service, especially yourself, by not complaining. The Seine CBA is what it is but you are partially responsible for the mess you are in over the lines in the LCD panel by not enforcing a solution to the problem ASAP.

[lilzeus]

Richard,

It was somewhat clear that you are obviously on the side of the manufacturer here. I noticed this when you replied to the original poster, which for some reason I cannot find their post. Has it been removed?

I would rather not get into a battle with you AND Toshiba over this to support my grief. I will however address your attempts at breaking down my situation:

What is the date of purchase?

The date of purchase is 1/28/2007.

On our site you made it seem as if you were waiting on a part for 3 months, that was not the case and regardless of the downtime that won't trigger an exchange in this industry - pick your manufacturer.

To quote what I said here:

First it had a bad HDMI 2 port which took 3.5 months to repair.

As you can see, I said it took 3.5 months to repair not for a part to arrive. I have kept track of all dates and for this first issue in order to defend myself here with rock solid dates which seems odd because on no other forums has anyone else who has had these exact same parts issue with Toshiba has someone attacked their validity. You should note however, that even the first part took an extremely long time to arrive and to repeat, it was the wrong part anyway.

2/5/2007 - TV arrives
2/9/2007 - repair shop is contacted and a date is scheduled for 2/13/2007 for them to come out and look at the problem. There was a snow storm on that date and they could not make it. They reschedule for the following week. Before that date arrives I receive a call from them stating that they do not need to come out to look at it and they know what part is needed to fix the HDMI 2 port. They have ordered the part, a new 'digital board' or Seine board.
3/16/2007 - Date part is supposed to arrive. It does not. For some reason a revised part is ordered instead.
4/15/2007 - Revised part comes in. They come out to install it but it is the wrong part for my TV. The correct part is ordered.
5/1/2007 - The correct part arrives broken. Another is ordered.
5/15/2007 - The correct part arrives and is installed. My TV's HDMI 2 port is functional.

Huh? Shocked That is the free market in action and you do everybody a dis-service, especially yourself, by not complaining. The Seine CBA is what it is but you are partially responsible for the mess you are in over the lines in the LCD panel by not enforcing a solution to the problem ASAP.

I wasn't aware that I was not complaining. So I am not sure how I am doing myself especially a dis-service. While my reasoning for not calling in the ghost bars or bands immediately may be selfish it is still not my fault that they are there. They are a 2nd issue with this TV.

I neglected to call it in because I simply wanted to get use out of my set which I paid a lot of money for!

The Toshiba Authorized repair shop I used to call in the display issue took the TV, so I don't even have one to use while I wait for this to get fixed (another reason why I was hesitant to call this issue in).

Of course I kept explaining my lack of confidence in Toshiba's ability to fix the current problem in a 'timely manner' based on my prior experience.

New sein board did not fix the ghost bars. I still have them and the one on the right is now getting to be dark black and much more narrow than my previous pics.

This last quote is dated 8/18/2007. The supervisor, though admittedly not a technical expert, explained that the 'ghost bars/bands' are an issue inherent in all LCD displays. It is just a matter of degree to which you have them. If it is 'out of spec' then you can see them too much and something needs to be done. However, the black line which developed is a completely different problem with the display and that only developed more recently, as you can see from the date of that particular post on avsforum.

Also, at no time am I pressing my current issue solely based on when I called that in, 10/28/2007, and trying to have my view float on such a short time frame. If you read all my posts, I take the view that this TV has had multiple issues, I waited 3.5 months for the first one to be resolved, the cost of repairing this display, it would seem, is extremely exorbitant, the time frame for this current fix is unknown and I have no TV to use in the meantime.

Regardless of if the ghost bars suddenly appeared on 10/28/2007 or day 1, it is not my fault they are there. It is not my fault that this is the 2nd problem with the TV. It is not my fault that Toshiba Customer Solutions has used some very questionable tactics and false information when dealing with me. And finally, for now anyways, my experience is not an isolated incident both with the bars/bands nor with having to wait a long amount of time for Toshiba to attempt to repair the panel only to fail and/or eventually have to give out a replacement or refund. You can verify this by visiting other forums.

The repair shops I have dealt with have always made a note of warning me when I called in that 'Toshiba is notoriously slow' when it comes to repair parts. Why would 2 separate repair shops make this warning? I have been finding out the hard way, and on more than one occasion.

[Richard]

It was somewhat clear that you are obviously on the side of the manufacturer here.

Dude, don't shoot the messenger. I am only sharing what the policies are along with my own 25 years experience of doing warranty service. Nothing is missing and nothing has been removed. Your original post was split off because we call that piling on, getting off topic, creating the very mess you detest at AVS. Each repair and the circumstances around one is unique, we split 'em over here.

This is one of those situations where you are learning about my wacky world, a world all are oblivious to, like your perfectly satisfied Toshiba owning friend, until THEY have a problem. I have been telling my customers for years you never know what you bought or the company you are dealing with until you have a problem.

I have dealt with your problem, handled it as a professional and my customers were taken care of either by the manufacturer or the retailer. When you buy via the internet it's yours, those companies don't take them back and if they do you will be out some expensive freight charges with large products. Most members at this site have recommended to spend the extra $$ and buy large products from brick and mortar stores so you retain another option when things go wrong. An extended warranty would have also provided yet another option, the lemon clause, yet that also terminates your extended warranty.

No matter how badly you think Toshiba has handled this they are one of the good guys in this business. Their 30 day policy is unique in the industry and has benefited me and my customers numerous times. It could be far, far worse... like how about waiting 3 months just to get somebody out to your home? Gosh, I could go on and on...

As of 05/15/07 you should have complained about the lines in your panel. The part would not have been available triggering an exchange then or after a 30 day wait. Your service center is partially responsible for letting those lines slide and you as well for letting the service center slide.

Bottom line: it's hard to find quality service in anything so shop carefully before hand.

Next bottom line: the service industry, the folks that come out to your home, predict it is going to get worse before it gets better. Most are running themselves ragged just to make ends meet. The manufacturers are going to have to choose between paying better rates, so the better companies will participate in their programs and take care of these kinds of problems as well as reducing some of the daily load so they can take the time to take care of the customer, or just replace product in which case we'll all be out of a job. Those who purchased extended warranties take note - those companies are floating the same boat!

I am sure you have heard the old corporate line - work harder, faster, quicker for the same amount of money... we are going through that in spades!

[lilzeus]

I appreciate your response. Just to let you know, I bought my TV from onecall.com and they are an authorized Toshiba e-tailer listed prominently on Toshiba's website:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/onlineetailers.html

I understand the discussion on whether to buy from brick and mortar or not. However, when you consider the difference in price (~$600), plus free shipping (which many brick and mortars don't offer all the time), 0% financing, plus a free wall mount kit it was simply too hard to refuse.

I couldn't be happier with onecall. And I have made other purchases from them as a result. They earned my future business with excellent prices and wonderful service. I was even able to buy a HDD camcorder from them for less than the online listed price, simply by asking. They took an additional $30 off an already sale priced camcorder to match my price and when all was said and done I asked how much the bottom line was (after shipping) and they said that is the bottom line...shipped to my door. Refreshing.

Just to let you know, when I spoke to the Customer Solutions supervisor he made this 30 day 'concession' as a way to make me feel special. As a way to say this is a special case, one that deserves 'a little extra'. Yeah, right.

What is also very twisted about this situation is that this guy tried to threaten me with taking away my chance for a refund or replacement, aka 'other options'. He also tried to buy me off with some so-called 'concession' by giving me a deadline for getting to the point where we discuss 'other options'. So if by December 3rd
1. the part is NOT on its way, or
2. my TV is NOT repaired and working perfectly
we are allowed to discuss 'other options' at that time. So I am supposed to feel like I am getting special treatment because they put this deadline on my case whereas normally customers are just expected to wait for as long as it takes for a repair. What kind of Customer Solutions is that?

I call it a threat because that is how it made me feel. And it was clear he was doing just that because I asked him if he personally was the one who decided who deserved 'other options' and what those 'other options' would be when a case got to that point. So he confirmed that he was the one with the power to make the decision and then threatened to never allow my case to get to 'other options'. And just to be clear about how I handle myself over the phone: I do not curse, I do no yell (though this supervisor did seem to shrill at times) and I do not get irate. And even if I did, no so-called 'Customer Solutions' department should be making such threats to a customer! In fact, the supervisor himself said I seemed like a 'reasonable, honest guy that is just unhappy with what is going on with his TV'. Not some jerk trying to pull one over on Toshiba.

Richard, if I were actually complaining solely about how these bars/lines/bands are taking too long to repair, it would be ridiculous. Its only been a week and a half or so. The timing of the service call is moot, IMO, because I am not complaining only about the lines! This is a 2nd issue. Prior issue took way too long to fix. Current issue is in limbo. Current issue is extremely expensive to repair. Customer Solutions has been much less than forthcoming to me. Many, many other people have had this same problem both with their TV and with difficulty or slow response from Toshiba.

I have tried to make it fairly clear that I did live with the lines for a while when I could have called it in AND that I am not making a huge deal about having those lines this whole time because I REALIZE that I am the one that let it slide. Hopefully you can see that when you read my posts. I am not ranting and raving constantly about how the lines where there since I bought it. When I first mentioned it I did so only in passing. ALL of the other issues surrounding my case are the crux of my position.

[Richard]

It is unfortunate that your service center left you out in the cold. All you needed to do was call Toshiba, start a file and the rest would have taken care of itself. If you pressed for immediate action or a specific action then that is the response you will get. For my customers with this problem I took pictures, contacted my field rep and within 24 hours he told me the unit was to be exchanged and have the customer call Toshiba. Maybe it was the combo of me and my field rep?

I understand, I really do. But where does it state anywhere that you are entitled to have repairs performed within a certain time frame? How many times your product gets repaired before it is exchanged? How long you will live without your product in the case of pickup and delivery for service?

These have been left open ended for decades, some states have passed consumer protection laws over this, many more have not and I suppose that is because the manufacturers know they need to take care of you or you will tell your friends and states will pass laws. Way back when I was in Indiana they passed a law that a part had to show up within 45 days; that would not have triggered a thing in your 3 month debacle. I am not aware of any state passing a lemon law and that is the trigger you are trying to pull, no?

The fact that you had two problems with this display does not entitle you to anything. The manufacturer is only required to repair it at no charge to you under warranty and provide parts to the service center for a period of 7 years [this info is not correct - click the link]. As for the panel price we have smelled for decades the fact that the manufacturer is pricing these, plasma panels and CRT picture tubes high to prevent an out of warranty repair and you won't be able to pull the 7 year parts requirement since there is not a judge in the country that would support your decision to spend twice as much on repair than replacement. Don't forget, manufacturers are not in the repair business, they are in the sales business!

If you don't think any of that is fair then at least you now have the knowledge to properly express your concerns.

You and I both look forward to your TV being exchanged.

[lilzeus]

Richard,

You have one up on me because you have the perspective that I do not. And it is very interesting to learn about it. I appreciate your help and concern.

I had to deal with 2 separate repair centers. When I called in for the second issue I made note that the first repair center was not mentioned by the Toshiba rep. I wonder why? lol I think they had an equal hand in that first repair taking so long.

As I mentioned in other posts elsewhere, I had called Toshiba first for the HDMI 2 port. As a consumer I have no idea how their system works, nor should I be expected to know. The representative merely directed me to contact an authorized repair center. There was no mention of a 'case' to open nor did they offer to take my information. My second contact with Toshiba was after the first repair was taking a long time. I did call to express my concern. It has been a while since that conversation so my memory of it is not very good. Suffice to say it was fairly brief, I feel like I asked about the part in particular and what I do remember for sure is that the rep simply apologized and made no effort to take information down. Perhaps they did do something because as you can see from my dates, parts started to arrive within 2 weeks as opposed to a month.

I agree that there probably is no documentation that a consumer is privy to that discusses any company's replacement/refund policies. Your legal point of view makes sense, because eventually it would seem like criminal activity...you have a consumer that paid for a product and they do not have what they paid for. This is probably an oversimplification, but its like stealing.

The supervisor I spoke to actually mentioned the scenario you described. He said the repair center most likely took pictures of the problem and sent them to a tech department at Toshiba. The tech department then determined that the TV needed a new display panel and got the ball rolling. Perhaps I should call the repair center and see how they handled it?

I really wish you were my repair rep! lol And it sounds like your Toshiba field rep can see the bigger picture. I live in Columbus OH, and I used to live in Indianapolis so maybe I am in the same 'field' as this fine gentleman. LOL

Just to confirm, because you are speaking in general terms, when you say 'For my customers with this problem' do you mean customers with a Toshiba that had a ghost bars/bands/lines issue specifically or any manufacturer/customer with a similar display issue? And if you mean any, have you had this particular problem with some Toshiba models?