Toshiba LCD 06 - lines/bars in panel

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Richard
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Post by Richard »

As a consumer I have no idea how their system works, nor should I be expected to know.
I agree! I would have only recommended starting a file if the part was on back order and of course that is my responsibility to the customer to make them aware of that and what Toshiba's policy is. It's not like I have a choice because the customer is angry and wants the TV fixed and sending them to Toshiba gets me off the hook. I LOVE the 30 day policy Toshiba has! For other readers this policy is only in play during the manufacturers warranty period.

Speaking of hooks, another myth to dispel in this business, I did not make your product, I did not break your product, I do not make parts for your product, I don't run the manufacturer and I do not work for the manufacturer. We servicers are only an authorized service center and ultimately all that means is we can repair your TV under warranty and have the best access to parts ordering and technical support. For some manufacturers you don't have a choice but to use an authorized service center even out of warranty - they won't sell parts to anybody else.
you have a consumer that paid for a product and they do not have what they paid for. This is probably an oversimplification, but its like stealing.
These are man made products, not acts of god... The only issue is what would be considered a reasonable amount of time to wait for service which is also a human endeavor with more human limitations. Some servicers are 2-3 weeks out on a service call. It takes typically about 3-7 business days to get a part depending on your location and the source. Once the part is in you go back into the system waiting your turn.

Sharp and Panasonic both have programs to turn a TV repair around in 48 hours most of the time and they pay well to get ahead of the line!

My rep is for the southeast so he is not covering your territory. In my case I had two Toshiba LCDs with your problem. I took pictures, put them on my site, sent my rep an email with all the customer info and links to the pictures. The second one was shortly after that and he did not request to see pictures of that one.

Toshiba claims this is a defective panel but it sure looks like burn in to me. Burn in may be the popular term but the correct term is image retention and for LCD that term has deeper meaning. An LCD cannot burn, it is not phosphor based. The way an LCD works is the LCD crystals for a pixel change their response to block light or allow it to pass, they actually move and that is the liquid part of LCD. What happens is they lose their range of motion with static images and often times can be repaired by simply running a pattern that constantly changes them from peak white to peak black to get the full range of motion back. LCD can have image retention but they are far more resilient than plasma or CRT projection. My speculation is indeed the panel is defective and they should not have become stuck in a certain state so quickly but they are obviously getting that way due to the images being shown such as 4:3 with side bars. Toshiba has been using the term MURA to describe the defect which I never heard of until all this happened. I studied it but failed to find any info presenting the case I have just stated. Everything I found related to manufacturing and a term imaging professionals would call uniformity - equal light output in all areas of the screen. MURA is a term the Japanese came up with for a uniformity problem with LCD display panel manufacturing along with equipment and QC processes to check for it.
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lilzeus
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Post by lilzeus »

If you haven't seen the pics of my particular issue please visit that thread I started over at avsforum. There is even member who posted his own picks of what I think is the darker, thinner line developing on the right hand side.

You mentioned you put the pics of a prior instance of this problem on your website. Could you provide a link to those so I can see if its the same thing?
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Post by Richard »

It's not my property to show. Both of mine were perfect vertical lines. One was smudgy but in the right area for 4:3 along with another line right down the center. The other was well defined again the same 4:3 area and only in the 4:3 area.

You are showing a full bar commonly seen with plasma and CRT burn in related to 4:3 and that is different. Is the bar on the right really at an angle?
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Post by lilzeus »

I only took a couple pics and I enhanced one of them so that it was easier to see. In the pic I used you cant really see the right bar/band. There was also a lot of distortion, Im not a photographer so I dont know what to call all those wavy lines. But I did place a peice of tape where the bar was and referenced that with a 4:3 displayed.

http://www.lilzeus.net/images/4-3_aspect.jpg

As you can see, they dont line up. So I have a hard time thinking that they are related to 4:3. Another problem with the 'burn in' theory and being related to the 4:3 aspect is that the bars were there from day one when viewing HD content. So there was no time for a burn in to occur.

Some better pics are near exact copies of what my TV began to display. I took the liberty of shrinking down this image because the original owner left them in their full size when he posted links to them and even with my high speed connection it took a very long time to view.

http://www.lilzeus.net/images/Img_0908.jpg

In this image you can see that the right side bar is at the point where it is a line and is much darker. This is what happened with my TV. Also, even though the discoloration of the other example bars is narrow, the image does not reveal the full width of them. They have been referred to as 'bars' because they are wider than simple lines.

A further example can be had here:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=23945

This user actually created a gallery of images and pointed out the ghost bars. In the one with the penguin you can see its actually about an inch to an inch and half wide a little better.
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Post by Richard »

http://www.lilzeus.net/images/Img_0908.jpg

That matches one of mine, the other did not have the center line.

Speculation...
Great LCD technology article in Widescreen Review! Apparently LCD is not one complete sheet for any size except one. There is a standard manufacturered size and they zip them together so to speak to make larger ones. These bars/lines appear to be showing up in the same places so one anecdotal conclusion is that this is where they are zipped and that is the defect in manufacturing...
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Post by lilzeus »

Defect in manufacturing...I agree.

And what is the right thing for a company to do when they have a defect in manufacturing? IMO, first they should admit it. Then they should go above and beyond the normal procedures and policies to take care of the victims who bought the defective product they manufactured. Yeah, yeah, 'victims' may be a little over-dramatic but anybody reading about my experience can understand why. :)

Richard, do you think I should or could further my homework on this by calling the repair center and asking questions like: Did you take pictures of the problem? Did you show them to a field rep from Toshiba? Were you in contact with someone from Toshiba about my case? Do you know how much the part on order costs?
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Post by Richard »

Without going all over this material again...

My understanding is an ASC came out, saw your problem, you are now waiting on a replacement panel, have started a file at Toshiba and are waiting out the 30 days.

?
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Post by lilzeus »

Yeah, I just called my repair center. Didn't get anywhere.

The lady on the other end said that they most likely did not take pictures and/or show them to someone from Toshiba. They have been working and in business for 25 years so they know what the problem is and Toshiba trusts their opinion on what it takes to fix the problem. She said, they are just a repair center, they just fix TVs. They don't contact a field rep for problems. The field rep that they do contact on occasion does not have the authority to make decisions on such things as replacements. Only the warranty center/department from Toshiba has that authority. She said I would have more influence on Toshiba than they would. She did not have a price for the part but she knew it was VERY expensive. Also, it is typical for manufacturers to still try to repair expensive panels rather than to give replacements. She also said that the prices of the parts are not revealed to the customer.

I think thats about it, in a nutshell.
Richard
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Post by Richard »

You weren't clear in your response. Assuming you are saying yes to my question then the answer is wait out the 30 days. They are not repairing your panel, they are replacing it if they can get a hold of one within 30 days. After that it should be exchanged.
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