This new HDMI receiver from Pioneer sports 4 HDMI inputs, so you don't need a switcher. also has Faroudja
Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXsi--- 4 HDMI inputs!
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HiDeffjeff,
Could you run through what you would hook into those 4 HDMI inputs? I would only use 1 for my Sat box and 1 for my DVD player, I think.
Also, I am not real familier yet with the new A/V recievers that even have HDMI. I assume you run all connections into the receiver and then the 1 output to your display? Is that right? No more direct video connections between STB's and the display? You tell the receiver which HDMI is the one you want to see?
Could you run through what you would hook into those 4 HDMI inputs? I would only use 1 for my Sat box and 1 for my DVD player, I think.
Also, I am not real familier yet with the new A/V recievers that even have HDMI. I assume you run all connections into the receiver and then the 1 output to your display? Is that right? No more direct video connections between STB's and the display? You tell the receiver which HDMI is the one you want to see?
Yes, that is correct. I would hook my HD-A1 Toshiba HD-DVD player to one input, My upscalable 400 disc Sony Mega-Changer to another input...My Sat receiver to a 3rd input and a second Tivo Sat receiver to the 4th...These can all be controlled with discrete ir commands into my universal remote. and it requires alot less hassle than with a Gefen switcher in the mix.
Thanks. I have read about some problems others are having with the HDMI video pass-through between varying STB's/receivers/displays. All the way from poor PQ to no picture. Some is due to HDCP handshake, I'm sure, others not. Many have gone back to a direct video connection, skipping the receiver. But maybe they are just idiots and gave up too easily. You have not had any video problems? Have you compared your present hookup to a direct one?
Also, if your DVD player and receiver both up-convert video, which one do you use? Seems like a high end receiver would be expected to do a better job.
Also, if your DVD player and receiver both up-convert video, which one do you use? Seems like a high end receiver would be expected to do a better job.
Believe it or not, with the Pioneer Elite HDMI receivers, I actually get a better picture than hooking direct...I have never had a problem with the handshake...I currently have the VSX-74TXvi....But I will be selling it on e-bay and picking up the newer VSX-84TXsi...with 4 inputs instead of only 2.
Believe it or not, with the Pioneer Elite HDMI receivers, I actually get a better picture than hooking direct...
This comment is observation only and is entirely unexpected.
How long are your runs to the receiver and to the projector?
There is one possibility based on some research I had done on switchers and that is a compensation circuit that maintains a clean digital eye pattern on the cables. Is there any evidence that this has been incorporated in the Pioneer? Which standard does it support? Any evidence that SI has improved the chipset and now incorporates such circuitry?
My cable runs are 32 ft from the projector to the output of the HDMI switcher or receiver and 6 ft from the HDMI switcher output to the receiver...and another 6ft from the Tivo/DVD players to the inputs of the switcher. <<<(I plan on changing these to 3 ft lengths).
Richard, when it comes to HDMI I am totally at a loss in trying to figure out what works and what doesn't...I have had scenereos where I have 4 brand new 6 ft HDMI cables made by let's say 2 different manufacturers, and 1 cable will work perfectly between my Mega changer and the Gefen switcher, but if I take that same cable and hook it to my TiVo, it might have snow or blink in and out...(it makes absolutely no sense!)...I have been screaming in the middle of the night trying to figure out why HDMI seems to defy science at times!...Another situation worth bringing up is the fact that I have 2 Panasonic front projectors which are almost identicle...(One is 900U and 700U)...well, I usually like to rotate my projectors, so that no one particular projector gets too many hours on it...The other day I noticed the projector in my family room already has 1300 hours on it, so I thought, "heck, the one in the bedroom only has 300 hours so I'll switch them and start running up the hours on the low hour one"....well, even though the HDMI runs are exactly the same length, the projectors wouldn't accept the switch!!!!...(both projectors had snow and started blinking in and out....I swear, it makes no sense, but when I returned them to their original rooms they worked perfect again. It is almost as though the HDMI cables have a mind of their own!...I could go on and on, but the point is, sometimes HDMI doesn't make sense. I have been pretty lucky so far considering having an HDMI receiver as well as using the Gefen switcher in the mix...and then having everything controlled by my MX-3000 remote...It's like, when you get it working, DO NOT MESS WITH IT!...(At least this has been my experience)...Just yesterday I was farting around with my switcher, and it came to be that my Tivo comes in perfect going through the HDMI switcher, but when I hooked that same cable direct it had white speckles glimmering like tiny stars in the background...So I hooked the cable back through the HDMI switcher and GONE!...I just sat there shaking my head...
Richard, when it comes to HDMI I am totally at a loss in trying to figure out what works and what doesn't...I have had scenereos where I have 4 brand new 6 ft HDMI cables made by let's say 2 different manufacturers, and 1 cable will work perfectly between my Mega changer and the Gefen switcher, but if I take that same cable and hook it to my TiVo, it might have snow or blink in and out...(it makes absolutely no sense!)...I have been screaming in the middle of the night trying to figure out why HDMI seems to defy science at times!...Another situation worth bringing up is the fact that I have 2 Panasonic front projectors which are almost identicle...(One is 900U and 700U)...well, I usually like to rotate my projectors, so that no one particular projector gets too many hours on it...The other day I noticed the projector in my family room already has 1300 hours on it, so I thought, "heck, the one in the bedroom only has 300 hours so I'll switch them and start running up the hours on the low hour one"....well, even though the HDMI runs are exactly the same length, the projectors wouldn't accept the switch!!!!...(both projectors had snow and started blinking in and out....I swear, it makes no sense, but when I returned them to their original rooms they worked perfect again. It is almost as though the HDMI cables have a mind of their own!...I could go on and on, but the point is, sometimes HDMI doesn't make sense. I have been pretty lucky so far considering having an HDMI receiver as well as using the Gefen switcher in the mix...and then having everything controlled by my MX-3000 remote...It's like, when you get it working, DO NOT MESS WITH IT!...(At least this has been my experience)...Just yesterday I was farting around with my switcher, and it came to be that my Tivo comes in perfect going through the HDMI switcher, but when I hooked that same cable direct it had white speckles glimmering like tiny stars in the background...So I hooked the cable back through the HDMI switcher and GONE!...I just sat there shaking my head...
Can I have your 59 if you don't need it anymore?
Already sold it on ebay...got 2250.00 for it. Got to use it for over a year and only lost 200.00 bucks in the deal!...Kinda like renting it for 200.00 for 16 months!... 
My cable runs are 32 ft
Holy cow! Well there is your problem more than likely. What brand and model number of cable are you using for the 32' run? You know I don't promote expensive cables but with that length that could be part of or possibly the shole solution. It does sound like the digital eye pattern is getting distorted typically due to impedance variations and of course pushing the system design.
http://www.octavainc.com/Clear%20Eye%20difference.htm
Check out that link and let me know what you think. I don't think you have to have that but either way you are going to have to shell out big bucks for either that, a repeater, or fancy cable that exceeds specs for that 32' run.
Based on yoru recent post it does not sound like the Pioneer has fixed this problem...?
Richard, right now my system is operating perfectly...I just can't switch the projectors...(It makes no sense). 32 ft is no problem at all. I have gone 60....but to me, that is pushing it. I have found that with HDMI 32 ft is about as far as you should go with good thick expensive cables...I get mine from http://www.pacificcable.com/ ....DVI is a differnt story...You cannot go beyond 20ft without problems in most cases.
my system is operating perfectly...I just can't switch the projectors..
From experience that means your system is only working. Otherwise you would be able to switch out the projectors.
As for distance DVI is about 32 feet with properly constructed cables and HDMI adds another 10-20 feet, would have to look that one up.
The difference in cable construction and specs show up as you increase the length. The link provides the perfect example of what can happen.
Richard, both projectors are connected to the exact same brand of 32ft cable (and both of these 32ft cables are connected to the same switcher)...So there should be no reason I couldn't swap them out. As I said..."it makes no sense"...I just wanted to let folks know how finicky HDMI can be....BTW, Both projectors use the same bulb, so I decided to just swap bulbs.... 
I think the problem is in the 700U projector itself...(They must have made some improvement in the 900U as to it's sensitivity to the signal)...My cables are definately not too long...When I get the Optoma HD81 projector I will sell the 700U so that should end my problem.
I think the problem is in the 700U projector itself...(They must have made some improvement in the 900U as to it's sensitivity to the signal)...My cables are definately not too long...When I get the Optoma HD81 projector I will sell the 700U so that should end my problem.
My cables are definately not too long...
If the 32' meets specs you are correct. So what brand and model are using for that run?
I use these cables...(the picture is incorrect), but the specs are correct I believe...I called them when I got the cables and they said they no longer send the skinny ones....They sent me the thicker ones cause they were better for longer runs. (My cables are twice as thick as the one you see in that picture...FYI.
http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Pag ... me=HDMI-10
http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Pag ... me=HDMI-10
It should work. If you are curious take the projector and hook it up with a short run like a 1-2 meter system componet cable. If it passes it's the cable regardless of what they say. If it does not then it is the display.
Richard...thank God this is all going to be moot. I have sent back the 4X2 Switcher for a refund and am applying the bucks towards the new Pioneer Elite Receiver with 4 HDMI inputs and one output. I have been doing tests going straight from the receiver to the projectors and I am able to swap them that way. (So it had to have something to do with the extra draw from the switcher). With the new setup I will be able to be sure all 4 HDMI inputs will play DD+ into the receiver. The Video coming out of the receivers HDMI output can be sent to an HDMI splitter and then to the projectors with no worries of the DD+ audio anymore. (problem solved)...
Splitter...
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3936
Splitter...
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3936
Sounds like the switcher was having a handshake problem with the projector... Forgot about your switcher. Good troubleshooting!
BTW
HDMI cabling manufacturing could not use the same old techniques used for analog cable manufacturing, the lenght of all the pieces of that HDMI wire has to be exactly equal, or the difference in lenght could produce the fast signal transported on that wire to have different arrival time at the other end, which would have an effect on the image.
Interestingly enough, a superthick cable that some people could prefer for transporting a signal, could produce a problem as HDMI transport if manufacted incorrectly. The super thickness could cause the ends of each piece not to be exactly equal in length when they arrive at the plug. Equipment did not have anything to do with making the signal worst in this case. Some people could have thought a thicker wire could be better in all the cases, ignoring construction, quality of material, plugs, etc.
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20813
Hi guys, Sorry for not being around more. I had a bit of trouble logging in so I reset my password and now all seems to be well. Jeff, I am freaking out! I just bought the VSX-74TXvi with 2 HDMI inputs and now they come out with the 4 input model!!!! 
Dang it! Anybody interested in buying my almost new 74TXVi? I'll let it go for 800.00 bucks. I want the new 84TXsi as well. I don't want to mess around with these switchers anymore. BTW, I did decide to go with the Panasonic PTAE-900U projector and I couldn't be happier! I like the idea you came up with having an electric screen come down over the dresser mirror in your bedroom! Now I just have to convince my wife!,,,
Dang it! Anybody interested in buying my almost new 74TXVi? I'll let it go for 800.00 bucks. I want the new 84TXsi as well. I don't want to mess around with these switchers anymore. BTW, I did decide to go with the Panasonic PTAE-900U projector and I couldn't be happier! I like the idea you came up with having an electric screen come down over the dresser mirror in your bedroom! Now I just have to convince my wife!,,,
Yeah, I know...It's kind of a bummer that they waited so long to come out with the 4 input HDMI receiver. Just sell it on Ebay...It's not hard. Also, I'm glad to hear you like the Panny projector. Are you thinking of putting another projector in your bedroom?...I really love my setup in the bedroom. When my wife falls asleep on me I just throw on my headphones and continue to watch...
Jeff, if you don't mind, where did you buy your electric screens? I have talked my wife into letting me put one in our bedroom.
Nope, still cheaper at the final click...552.49 and includes shipping.
http://www.thefinalclick.com/shop/custo ... ?cat=10246
http://www.thefinalclick.com/shop/custo ... ?cat=10246
Jeff, decided to go with a 133" electric self tentioning for my bedroom.....thanks for the lead. you were right. I couldn't beat "The Final Click". (guess that's why they call it, "The Final Click!")....... 
It's costing me, but, unfortunately in my bedroom I don't have a choice. I don't have a bare wall to paint!.....
It's costing me, but, unfortunately in my bedroom I don't have a choice. I don't have a bare wall to paint!.....
You guys understand that these projectors are designed for 80-110" screens...
You are taking a hit in light output unless you increase the gain of the screen which can create other problems... Even then you take a hit in lamp life because it will get dimmer quicker since you are already pushing this aspect with the screen...
You are taking a hit in light output unless you increase the gain of the screen which can create other problems... Even then you take a hit in lamp life because it will get dimmer quicker since you are already pushing this aspect with the screen...
Richard...Yeah I know, that's what they say however, I am quite happy with the picture I get for most viewing at larger screen sizes. If I need to I shrink the pic down to 110 or so, but at night I go with the big picture!...
I have the Octava 4x1 HDMI switch with Toslink switching and it does not work.
I have their amp also which seem to work fine but as soon as I try to use the switcher all I get is snow. I've sent several email and have never received any support..
I'm looking at the pioneer 84 to provide HDMI audio and video switching since the Octava does not work.
Bill
I have their amp also which seem to work fine but as soon as I try to use the switcher all I get is snow. I've sent several email and have never received any support..
I'm looking at the pioneer 84 to provide HDMI audio and video switching since the Octava does not work.
Bill
Can anyone tell me what HDMI version the Elite VSX-84TXSi has? The product specs do not tell if it is 1.3
Thanks
Lamar
Thanks
Lamar