I am ready to replace a 6 rear old RP HDTV Toshiba which worked flawlessly for these years with a plasma and I really want a Panasonic TC-P58v10 for its 24p capability. When I went to see if this tv was in stock it wasn't and the salesman said that the Samsung PN58B860 was just as good, now I was puzzled, I read on 4 different sights that this is not the case and in fact the Sammy is unreliable and all it offers is more gizmos than anything else. Can anyone help me out on this, its a big purchase and once I buy it its mine so any input is welcomed. On a side note I also thought about a LED LCD but am not sure this new tech. is refined enough yet and if that is a better route than plasma.. Thank you for the time..
Choice of Panasonic or Samsung plasma.
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mccollum67
Did you "limit" your looking to that single store?
58" sets DO exist "IF" you actually will try a little ... Costco, SAMsCLUB, P.C.Richards, www.amazon.com - - - on & on goes the listing!
You HAVE waited until an awkward moment - - - sets from last year are pretty-much ending - - whereas the all-new versions for the next year's sets will NOT be around in plenty of volume for some weeks.
BUT - - you must make up your mind rather than believe one of us, as we are literally complete strangers, naturally.
No possible comparison between the "Field-of-View" or what HD - Picture Quality people will see / enjoy while sitting along the sides of the TV Room as opposed to the two or three actually in front of the TV - - - - LCD HDTVs with either type of edge or full back lighting via LEDs seem to have Great Difficulties in providing proper "Off-Axis" picture quality.
eli
p.s. = What's the viewing distance between your eyes-to-display actually going to be typically, please? ..... AND - what's the situation re: Ambient lighting conditions in the TV Viewing Room?
Did you "limit" your looking to that single store?
58" sets DO exist "IF" you actually will try a little ... Costco, SAMsCLUB, P.C.Richards, www.amazon.com - - - on & on goes the listing!
You HAVE waited until an awkward moment - - - sets from last year are pretty-much ending - - whereas the all-new versions for the next year's sets will NOT be around in plenty of volume for some weeks.
BUT - - you must make up your mind rather than believe one of us, as we are literally complete strangers, naturally.
No possible comparison between the "Field-of-View" or what HD - Picture Quality people will see / enjoy while sitting along the sides of the TV Room as opposed to the two or three actually in front of the TV - - - - LCD HDTVs with either type of edge or full back lighting via LEDs seem to have Great Difficulties in providing proper "Off-Axis" picture quality.
eli
p.s. = What's the viewing distance between your eyes-to-display actually going to be typically, please? ..... AND - what's the situation re: Ambient lighting conditions in the TV Viewing Room?
The distance we view is around 13 feet with a large sofa and a lazy boy aimed at the tv. the lighting is med bright I guess but we have full blinds that can make it darker or lighter as needed. On a side note I love the LED LCD picture but one scene I watched from Wolverine Origins really looked too good i could tell the scene was fake,, grrr this is hard plus I have to make the wife happy..
mccollum67 ...
Then, @ that ~ 13' distance, it IS a 58" that's needed / should be ....
Recall that essentially all those HDTVs within the mass store display you happened to view are improperly set to "Vivid" - Max on Brightness / Contrasts / etc., etc..
NOT-AT-ALL the manner in which any HDTV must be re-set via the internal settings on MENU.
eli
Then, @ that ~ 13' distance, it IS a 58" that's needed / should be ....
Recall that essentially all those HDTVs within the mass store display you happened to view are improperly set to "Vivid" - Max on Brightness / Contrasts / etc., etc..
NOT-AT-ALL the manner in which any HDTV must be re-set via the internal settings on MENU.
eli
TY,, I just finished doing some research on the exact TV I want and it seems the Panasonic has a major issue with possible all the tv's with the blacks after so many hours actually looking grey and IR can be an issue. I found the topic on CNETs forums and apparently the Panasonic people are pulling a Toyota move and not doing much until enough people put it for a claim lol.... Now I am scared to buy the TC-P58V10 and I am not spending $3500.00 on Samsungs 8500 series LED LCD, damn this is bad I need a dw TV.. But thanks for your help sorry I rambled on here..
I'm definitely no videophile, but before I bought my 52" Sony 120hz LCD I spent a lot of time comparing 60/120/240 hz LCDs and LED LCDs side by side and I just could not tell the difference. I've watched a lot of sports on my Sony and I haven't seen any motion artifacts.
Maybe the differences are there and I just can't see them, but I think anyone considering a purchase should do the same type of comparison and not rely on so-called expert reviews or paper specs.
At 13' a 55" 120hz LCD might work just fine for about half the cost of the bigger plasmas/LEDs. Just a thought.
Maybe the differences are there and I just can't see them, but I think anyone considering a purchase should do the same type of comparison and not rely on so-called expert reviews or paper specs.
At 13' a 55" 120hz LCD might work just fine for about half the cost of the bigger plasmas/LEDs. Just a thought.
mccullom67
Agree 100% w/ akirby !
'IF' you also might not be quite into the "perfection" of 3.2 or 3.3 times the vertical display height that's an integral part of my "harping" about very large displays - - -
... here IS the very set I have had for ~~ 2 + years now {@ this $1,199 - - much less!}, PLUS their associated simultaneous (5) years, 100% In-home Warranty Plan, also @ a reduction when purchased immediately @ $179 - - free del'y included. --- 1-877-865-7669 always works better than Internet for mine!
eli
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... 1665161573
Agree 100% w/ akirby !
'IF' you also might not be quite into the "perfection" of 3.2 or 3.3 times the vertical display height that's an integral part of my "harping" about very large displays - - -
... here IS the very set I have had for ~~ 2 + years now {@ this $1,199 - - much less!}, PLUS their associated simultaneous (5) years, 100% In-home Warranty Plan, also @ a reduction when purchased immediately @ $179 - - free del'y included. --- 1-877-865-7669 always works better than Internet for mine!
eli
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... 1665161573
That is a nice Sony no doubt but as I get older I need to go bigger than 52' lol I think glasses would be easier but I do like the price of the Sony,,, I am going to see if maybe they have the larger version.. From my last reply to this one I have looked a a Sharp Aquos 52" to small but nice, and 2 Samsungs 1 LED LCD with 120HZ and a 120 HZ regular LCD am going looking at them tomorrow, we have a custom shop around here where I hope I can view one in real conditions not inside a major store. Thanks guys will keep you posted and any other tv ideas are welcome I am ruling nothing out. Ohh my wife reminded me that I can get the Panasonic 58v10 for $1999 and that is a savings of over $600.00 compared to Best Buy and I read the a fix maybe on the way for the black level issue they had..
mccollum67 ...
MIGHT just be " in luck?" - - -
Look @ This, pls = under $1600, full guar, White Glove Del'y - no Tax except NY + KY !
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... R&v=glance
eli
MIGHT just be " in luck?" - - -
Look @ This, pls = under $1600, full guar, White Glove Del'y - no Tax except NY + KY !
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... R&v=glance
eli
For what it's worth, I purchased a 46" Vierra Panasonic 1080P (near top of the line) about 1 1/2 years ago for about $1200 with shipping included and it's been absolutely great with deep blacks and super sports viewing even in a room that is relatively bright during the day. I don't care for most LCD's, whether they are backlit with LED's or not because to me the picture looks artificial at times and to get away from that problem the price of the technology needed turns the LCD choice into $2500 or more. Plasma is the best deal. I do wish I had bought the 50" but the 46" was a new size and I needed to appease my wife by not having a "giant" TV. She thinks this size is perfect and loves the TV so it was a victory of sorts but I am going to get a new one that is around 54" for another home theatre room. It is likely to be a plasma to replace my old 50" DLP. I am waiting for new technology for a bit first so that it is different from my current TV but I am not excited about 3D after just watching something with those ridiculous glasses on for over an hour.
Recommended: Panasonic Plasma TV!
Recommended: Panasonic Plasma TV!
Here is a 60" Sony Bravia LCD for $2500:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... 1666077657
The killer for me with Plasma was the reflective glass screen. I have a dedicated home theater in the basement with total light control but this TV was for the Family room upstairs which is a 21x16 2 story vaulted ceiling with a very open floor plan and 6 ft wide, 2 story windows on one side. There is also a lamp reflection to deal with in my normal viewing position.
I went with LCD to avoid the glare problem. Richard can attest to the ambient light problem. When he repaired my old Mits 35" tube TV he was able to solder the new components without any additional light. It's bright!
The price break on LCDs seems to be around 55" right now. I would submit that you won't notice much difference between 55 and 58 at 13'.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... 1666077657
The killer for me with Plasma was the reflective glass screen. I have a dedicated home theater in the basement with total light control but this TV was for the Family room upstairs which is a 21x16 2 story vaulted ceiling with a very open floor plan and 6 ft wide, 2 story windows on one side. There is also a lamp reflection to deal with in my normal viewing position.
I went with LCD to avoid the glare problem. Richard can attest to the ambient light problem. When he repaired my old Mits 35" tube TV he was able to solder the new components without any additional light. It's bright!
The price break on LCDs seems to be around 55" right now. I would submit that you won't notice much difference between 55 and 58 at 13'.
akirby ...
That's a great 'buy!' for the display size ... and, absolutely, who would be able to "tell" between either a 55" / 58" or your 60" ....
"IF" there might be a need - - Sonystyle also has their all-new 55" for ~ ~ $600 less monies =
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... 1666077656
Have a great weekend ALL !
eli
That's a great 'buy!' for the display size ... and, absolutely, who would be able to "tell" between either a 55" / 58" or your 60" ....
"IF" there might be a need - - Sonystyle also has their all-new 55" for ~ ~ $600 less monies =
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... 1666077656
Have a great weekend ALL !
eli
I am ready to replace a 6 rear old RP HDTV Toshiba which worked flawlessly for these years with a plasma and I really want a Panasonic TC-P58v10 for its 24p capability. When I went to see if this tv was in stock it wasn't and the salesman said that the Samsung PN58B860 was just as good, now I was puzzled, I read on 4 different sights that this is not the case and in fact the Sammy is unreliable and all it offers is more gizmos than anything else. Can anyone help me out on this, its a big purchase and once I buy it its mine so any input is welcomed. On a side note I also thought about a LED LCD but am not sure this new tech. is refined enough yet and if that is a better route than plasma.. Thank you for the time..
I've got six Panny plasmas. I tried every set that looked decent in the stores and had some hooked up side by side. I have five 720p sets (one of them is a 58" set) and one 50" 1080p. My wife and I decided about three years ago to get rid of all our CRTs and go to flat screens. Money is not a problem with us (I know people hate to hear someone say that, but it fits into my decision to go with the Panny plasmas). Side by side or alone, the Pannys just are easier to use and have PQ that is not bettered by any TV that I could find. Even sets costing twice as much didn't have better pictures. I realize this is subjective, but there it is. The new Pannys will be out in about two or three months and we will be phasing out the 720ps for 1080p sets. And I've begun to look in the stores already and see nothing to change my mind about the Panny plasmas. The first one I'm gonna buy is a 65" Panny plasma. You can, virtually, take these sets out of the box and use them. I did have to make minor adjustments on the 1080p, but the 720s are just as they came out of the box.
You're correct to be wary of the Samsung plasmas. For one thing, a lot of them "hum". I just read this, probably in HDTV Magazine, not sure. I haven't been able to hear a hum in the stores, but the noise levels in the stores might be masking the hum. I've also had several Sammy LCDs and quickly returned them. The LCDs always look better in the stores.
The other brands, Vizio, Phillips, Sharp, etc., I have tried and also quickly returned. As far as I'm concerned the folks that make LCD sets have taken the consumer for a ride over the last few years. A friend of mine was convinced a couple years ago that a Sony 60Hertz 40" set was the absolute best TV on the market and spent $2500 on it. Pretty hard to watch a football or baseball game on it. Then they come up with 120hertz to offset a problem that they knew existed with the 60H sets. Then they come out with 240H sets to offset the problems with the 120H sets. Now they come out with LED backlighting to improve the PQ of the previous sets which were backlit with fluorescent lights. What next? Get my point? Meanwhile the Panny plasmas play on.
Were I you, I'd wait a couple months until the new Panny plasmas come out and get one then. As far as burn in goes, I have not seen any burn in on my six sets. My son plays games on his 50" 720p set and there is no burn in on that set and he's had that for almost three years and it goes day and night.
Moose
I've got six Panny plasmas. I tried every set that looked decent in the stores and had some hooked up side by side. I have five 720p sets (one of them is a 58" set) and one 50" 1080p. My wife and I decided about three years ago to get rid of all our CRTs and go to flat screens. Money is not a problem with us (I know people hate to hear someone say that, but it fits into my decision to go with the Panny plasmas). Side by side or alone, the Pannys just are easier to use and have PQ that is not bettered by any TV that I could find. Even sets costing twice as much didn't have better pictures. I realize this is subjective, but there it is. The new Pannys will be out in about two or three months and we will be phasing out the 720ps for 1080p sets. And I've begun to look in the stores already and see nothing to change my mind about the Panny plasmas. The first one I'm gonna buy is a 65" Panny plasma. You can, virtually, take these sets out of the box and use them. I did have to make minor adjustments on the 1080p, but the 720s are just as they came out of the box.
You're correct to be wary of the Samsung plasmas. For one thing, a lot of them "hum". I just read this, probably in HDTV Magazine, not sure. I haven't been able to hear a hum in the stores, but the noise levels in the stores might be masking the hum. I've also had several Sammy LCDs and quickly returned them. The LCDs always look better in the stores.
The other brands, Vizio, Phillips, Sharp, etc., I have tried and also quickly returned. As far as I'm concerned the folks that make LCD sets have taken the consumer for a ride over the last few years. A friend of mine was convinced a couple years ago that a Sony 60Hertz 40" set was the absolute best TV on the market and spent $2500 on it. Pretty hard to watch a football or baseball game on it. Then they come up with 120hertz to offset a problem that they knew existed with the 60H sets. Then they come out with 240H sets to offset the problems with the 120H sets. Now they come out with LED backlighting to improve the PQ of the previous sets which were backlit with fluorescent lights. What next? Get my point? Meanwhile the Panny plasmas play on.
Were I you, I'd wait a couple months until the new Panny plasmas come out and get one then. As far as burn in goes, I have not seen any burn in on my six sets. My son plays games on his 50" 720p set and there is no burn in on that set and he's had that for almost three years and it goes day and night.
Moose
The only real difference between a well honed plasma and LCD design that has been ISF calibrated is angular viewing.
The 120/240/480 processing is all about the motion flow processing feature; not resolving the inherent image blur issue with LCD which may be identified under lab conditions but can't be seen with actual video content.
The 120/240/480 processing is all about the motion flow processing feature; not resolving the inherent image blur issue with LCD which may be identified under lab conditions but can't be seen with actual video content.
The only real difference between a well honed plasma and LCD design that has been ISF calibrated is angular viewing.
The 120/240/480 processing is all about the motion flow processing feature; not resolving the inherent image blur issue with LCD which may be identified under lab conditions but can't be seen with actual video content.
Angular viewing is what turned me off about the LCDs. That and I just liked the PQ on the Panny plasmas. I've been looking at LCDs for a couple weeks, I plan to buy a big 1080p set of some kind in April and what I've found is that some of the 240 hertz sets have really good angular viewing and some don't. From what I've read, some manufacturers do the 240 hertz thing differently. Sony and, oddly, Vizio are the only 240 sets I've seen so far that you can truly see the picture clearly from any angle. The last three Sony HD sets (all CRTs) I bought I had a lot of trouble with and all the Vizios I've tried at home didn't pass muster with the Boss. Guess I'll end with another Panny plasma, perhaps the new 65" model that comes out in a couple months.
Moose
The 120/240/480 processing is all about the motion flow processing feature; not resolving the inherent image blur issue with LCD which may be identified under lab conditions but can't be seen with actual video content.
Angular viewing is what turned me off about the LCDs. That and I just liked the PQ on the Panny plasmas. I've been looking at LCDs for a couple weeks, I plan to buy a big 1080p set of some kind in April and what I've found is that some of the 240 hertz sets have really good angular viewing and some don't. From what I've read, some manufacturers do the 240 hertz thing differently. Sony and, oddly, Vizio are the only 240 sets I've seen so far that you can truly see the picture clearly from any angle. The last three Sony HD sets (all CRTs) I bought I had a lot of trouble with and all the Vizios I've tried at home didn't pass muster with the Boss. Guess I'll end with another Panny plasma, perhaps the new 65" model that comes out in a couple months.
Moose
Ya, its funny because one of the other members here told me angular viewing wasn't a real problem anymore about a year ago. As you noted it is, how much of a problem it is varies from model to model, and if you care about such things, you gotta go to the store and inspect what you expect. Pretty much what I said then...
I agree. And I do care about these things. And I do go to the stores and check the TVs out. One of the things I've noticed is that I haven't gone into a store that had a sports show on in a very long time. I have to think that's because the LCDs are probably still choppy when dealing with quick movements, such as Derek Jeter running the bases. And the stores don't want you to see that. I've only watched baseball games on my friend's $2,400 Sony 40" LCD and you do see something like "slow" frames. His is a sixty hertz set. He bought it a little over two years ago and already it's obsolete.
I bought my plasmas at the same time and I've been satisfied with them. Never was a big fan of Panny products, but the plasma TVs are the best for the money that I've seen.
Rich
I bought my plasmas at the same time and I've been satisfied with them. Never was a big fan of Panny products, but the plasma TVs are the best for the money that I've seen.
Rich
This link may help you understand what is going on...
Waveform 09A Motion Blur and 120hz LCD Frame Rate Processing
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10552
Waveform 09A Motion Blur and 120hz LCD Frame Rate Processing
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10552
Angular viewing is what turned me off about the LCDs.
Is that because you need high angle viewing at home or is it just a paper thing (like bench racing car specs)?
The way my home viewing is set up is such that I could get away with a couple LCDs, but why bother? We're satisfied with the Panny plasmas, and I'd rather have a device that does everything I want rather than a device that almost does everything.
Moose
Moose
I'm not suggesting that you should get LCD or not get Plasma - there are many other reasons to get one or the other including those that are 100% subjective.
I just find it odd that you would put so much weight on a feature that you don't need. If the PQ is the primary factor or you just prefer plasma then that's fine.
In my case I would never have a viewing angle more than about 30 degrees off center so angular viewing was never even a consideration.
I just find it odd that you would put so much weight on a feature that you don't need. If the PQ is the primary factor or you just prefer plasma then that's fine.
In my case I would never have a viewing angle more than about 30 degrees off center so angular viewing was never even a consideration.
I really like the PQ on the Panny plasmas. That's my main concern with any TV. I can't stand poor PQ and I found a lot of TVs that had much worse PQ than the Pannys. I do have rooms where the viewing angle would be more than 30 degrees for some people. I'd be sitting in front of it, but my wife has chairs that she likes and she didn't like the LCDs from those chairs. Last time I watched a baseball game at my friend's house with the 40" Sony LCD, four of us were scrunched together on his couch.
Moose
Moose
So you DO need angled viewing after all. That's all I was asking.
Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear about that. I have been looking at TVs and I have seen a Sony and a Vizio that were both 240H sets and the angular viewing appeared to be great. The rest of the LCD TVs still seem to have that problem. The last Vizio LCD that I bought did make a great computer monitor, but I couldn't watch TV shows on it. That was a couple years ago and they seem to have improved.
Moose
Moose