Am buying a new led hdtv--do I need a professional (Geek Squad ffrom Best Buy) callibration///
Do I need a professional calibration?
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They probably told you did, but you don't, and I am an ISF calibrator.
There are great reasons to calibrate, like not only wanting the best picture possible but mostly an accurate picture that lets you see everything you are supposed to with the correct colors. Check it out...
http://www.isfforum.com/
Based on customer feedback you would be better off letting one of them do it instead.
There are great reasons to calibrate, like not only wanting the best picture possible but mostly an accurate picture that lets you see everything you are supposed to with the correct colors. Check it out...
http://www.isfforum.com/
Based on customer feedback you would be better off letting one of them do it instead.
" GEEK SQUAD " .. experts @ local stores - - -
Dear " A.S. " - -
Richard was TOO politically-polite / being very cordial ...
DON"T ever consider using any of their " services!" ... their expertise / training / equipments typically amount to an afternoon's training at most rather than what IS actually necessary for the services & procedures of a Legitimate, licensed ISF Calibrator !!!
And, it's a "shame" that you DID get that new HDTV there, as well, for that matter - - - I'll wager the most expensive steak dinner in town that your associated "second shopping cart" upon which their sales assistant INSISTED was as costly & filled with totally-unnecessary, silly, hugely-costly items as that over-priced HDTV! ... E.G. = "Line Conditioners, $199 Cabling via "M" because it was absolutely VITAL, Extended Warranty, ad infinitum ...
eli
p.s - another "example" of the Nonsense @ your store = Your new set is NOT all-new technology in-the-slightest! ... simply another LCD HDTV which utilizes a set of LEDs for the backlighting, be it Full or Edge ...
Dear " A.S. " - -
Richard was TOO politically-polite / being very cordial ...
DON"T ever consider using any of their " services!" ... their expertise / training / equipments typically amount to an afternoon's training at most rather than what IS actually necessary for the services & procedures of a Legitimate, licensed ISF Calibrator !!!
And, it's a "shame" that you DID get that new HDTV there, as well, for that matter - - - I'll wager the most expensive steak dinner in town that your associated "second shopping cart" upon which their sales assistant INSISTED was as costly & filled with totally-unnecessary, silly, hugely-costly items as that over-priced HDTV! ... E.G. = "Line Conditioners, $199 Cabling via "M" because it was absolutely VITAL, Extended Warranty, ad infinitum ...
eli
p.s - another "example" of the Nonsense @ your store = Your new set is NOT all-new technology in-the-slightest! ... simply another LCD HDTV which utilizes a set of LEDs for the backlighting, be it Full or Edge ...
The author removed this post for personal reasons, and prefers to be disconnected from this thread.
Merely creating a perception of quality imaging is easily achieved by an end user or installer by adjusting the controls to their satisfaction; you don’t need a calibration disc or calibration to video standards to create that perception! Watch TV, watch DVD and Blu-ray and adjust accordingly.
Rodolfo suggests using a calibration DVD and self calibrating. On one hand that’s a good idea because it will give you a sense of what is going on and better appreciation of what you and the calibrator are trying to achieve, although without instrumentation, such methods are clearly limited to providing a better image only. I can’t tell you how many people successfully calibrated the basics of a display with a calibration disc making their picture better. I don’t see how anybody could conclusively know that. On the other hand this may not be a good idea because when I show up to calibrate, and the customer has attempted this, inevitably some or all of the controls are set incorrectly and one of the manufacturers presets actually performs better. If you have no experience with quality video imaging it’s likely you will have a difficult time fully understanding what you are trying to achieve with each pattern and with each display technology. You could just as easily make your image worse playing with a calibration DVD.
Rodolfo grinds an old axe over how manufacturers do not provide a calibrated display that meets video standards. Yet just because a display is calibrated at the factory does not mean you will get correct images connected to your system nor in your home depending on ambient light conditions. You can buy a THX certified display and THX will still tell you to get a professional in your home for final calibration; to have inspected what you and THX expected! With plasma you have phosphor wear that must be corrected for over time.
If you want your display and system to meet video standards, you will need a professional calibration with instrumentation along with the experience of a calibrator in your home.
My client base is all over the map for income, lifestyle and screen size yet they all have one thing in common; the desire to experience video standards, and in turn fully experience the expression of art as intended by the artist. Your desire for this experience is the only ingredient that matters and that’s pragmatic common sense for how to spend or not spend your money as well!
Rodolfo suggests using a calibration DVD and self calibrating. On one hand that’s a good idea because it will give you a sense of what is going on and better appreciation of what you and the calibrator are trying to achieve, although without instrumentation, such methods are clearly limited to providing a better image only. I can’t tell you how many people successfully calibrated the basics of a display with a calibration disc making their picture better. I don’t see how anybody could conclusively know that. On the other hand this may not be a good idea because when I show up to calibrate, and the customer has attempted this, inevitably some or all of the controls are set incorrectly and one of the manufacturers presets actually performs better. If you have no experience with quality video imaging it’s likely you will have a difficult time fully understanding what you are trying to achieve with each pattern and with each display technology. You could just as easily make your image worse playing with a calibration DVD.
Rodolfo grinds an old axe over how manufacturers do not provide a calibrated display that meets video standards. Yet just because a display is calibrated at the factory does not mean you will get correct images connected to your system nor in your home depending on ambient light conditions. You can buy a THX certified display and THX will still tell you to get a professional in your home for final calibration; to have inspected what you and THX expected! With plasma you have phosphor wear that must be corrected for over time.
If you want your display and system to meet video standards, you will need a professional calibration with instrumentation along with the experience of a calibrator in your home.
My client base is all over the map for income, lifestyle and screen size yet they all have one thing in common; the desire to experience video standards, and in turn fully experience the expression of art as intended by the artist. Your desire for this experience is the only ingredient that matters and that’s pragmatic common sense for how to spend or not spend your money as well!
The author removed this post for personal reasons, and prefers to be disconnected from this thread.
Here is a comparison of a BB calibration to an independent. http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=430
Here are some things to consider if are going to do this yourself. http://homecinemaguru.com/?page_id=42
Not spending some effort or money on audio and video setup is a mistake if you want the most from your system.
Here are some things to consider if are going to do this yourself. http://homecinemaguru.com/?page_id=42
Not spending some effort or money on audio and video setup is a mistake if you want the most from your system.
The author removed this post for personal reasons, and prefers to be disconnected from this thread.
Rodolfo is really hung up on this price issue... Obviously, if I want to experience video standards, I don’t have any choice but to pay about $400 to make that happen. This is a lifestyle choice and nothing more.
On one hand Rodolfo goes out of his way to assure us he supports the concept of professional calibration yet on the other hand he goes out of his way to create linear arguments of relative cost to convince us otherwise, suggesting you might be satisfied with your own adjustments. Yet making your own adjustments has nothing to do with your desire to experience an image based on video standards that requires instrumentation to achieve. Clarity appears to have been lost due to his personal agenda.
In my view, it’s your lifestyle, your money and I think you, the reader, should do what ever makes you happy. Rodolfo acts as if the reader is unable to observe the obvious relationship of cost and appears to be on a mission to save you from your unwitting self before you drop $400 to calibrate a display that is unworthy, according to his personal agenda.
For years, the common marketing template hype has been that if you spend gobs of money it is wise to calibrate simply due to relative cost (along with an assortment of other expensive items that appear inexpensive based on relative cost). Rodolfo uses this same argument to suggest calibration does not make sense for him in the current market because the price of a display has dropped so dramatically. Under such pretenses, one reasonable conclusion is that if you want to calibrate you should spend even more money on more expensive display simply to justify the service even though the end result won’t be any better (it could be worse). How is that common sense? Under such pretenses one could conclude that even if an inexpensive display can be calibrated well you are wasting your money to do so simply because the display wasn’t expensive enough. How is that common sense? Because a 50" plasma display was $4000 years ago professional calibration made sense, but now because that same display is only $900 there is no reason to professionally calibrate? How is that common sense? None of this cost analysis even bares a direct relationship with achieving video standards in your home on your display.
Pragmatic common sense would suggest that the only reason to calibrate is because you have a desire to experience an image based on video standards. Fulfilling that desire is not directly related to the cost of the display but rather the ability to calibrate the display. Price and brand alone doesn’t directly determine how well any given display calibrates or performs and plenty have been hood winked into believing such anecdotal conclusions!
If you have no interest in calibration why should you spend the first dollar to have the service performed? Pragmatic common sense suggests that is a waste of money, regardless of the marketing approaches, such as the ever useful cost relationship, that may be used to get calibration money out of you. I repeat, merely creating a perception of quality imaging is easily achieved by an end user or installer by adjusting the controls to their satisfaction; you don’t need a calibration disc or calibration to video standards to create that perception! Yet spending money on a service you don’t really understand, want, appreciate or care about is common sense simply because your stuff costs more?
The only thing that has changed between now and years ago is that the overall price of acquiring this desire, display plus calibration, has fallen only because the price of the display has fallen. All that matters in the end is that the display can be properly calibrated, regardless of price. In today’s market, you can get video standards in your home for way less than you could years ago for the same size display. That’s great news if you desire video standards!
Adding to that... And it’s likely the end user won’t change the controls due to the false sense of security that naturally comes with performing this process, another common attribute of self calibration I regularly witness; I did what the disc said so this must be what correct looks like. If you don’t know how this stuff works then you need somebody who does because a calibration disc can improve your picture for little money when used properly. A professional calibrator can do that and more, taking you to the next level providing accurate color and gamma.
On one hand Rodolfo goes out of his way to assure us he supports the concept of professional calibration yet on the other hand he goes out of his way to create linear arguments of relative cost to convince us otherwise, suggesting you might be satisfied with your own adjustments. Yet making your own adjustments has nothing to do with your desire to experience an image based on video standards that requires instrumentation to achieve. Clarity appears to have been lost due to his personal agenda.
The cost relation I always do is not about income or value to a person, but is about the relative cost of the calibration compared to the price of the set. I was clear on my note when I extended that relation to cars, house items, etc.
In my view, it’s your lifestyle, your money and I think you, the reader, should do what ever makes you happy. Rodolfo acts as if the reader is unable to observe the obvious relationship of cost and appears to be on a mission to save you from your unwitting self before you drop $400 to calibrate a display that is unworthy, according to his personal agenda.
For years, the common marketing template hype has been that if you spend gobs of money it is wise to calibrate simply due to relative cost (along with an assortment of other expensive items that appear inexpensive based on relative cost). Rodolfo uses this same argument to suggest calibration does not make sense for him in the current market because the price of a display has dropped so dramatically. Under such pretenses, one reasonable conclusion is that if you want to calibrate you should spend even more money on more expensive display simply to justify the service even though the end result won’t be any better (it could be worse). How is that common sense? Under such pretenses one could conclude that even if an inexpensive display can be calibrated well you are wasting your money to do so simply because the display wasn’t expensive enough. How is that common sense? Because a 50" plasma display was $4000 years ago professional calibration made sense, but now because that same display is only $900 there is no reason to professionally calibrate? How is that common sense? None of this cost analysis even bares a direct relationship with achieving video standards in your home on your display.
Pragmatic common sense would suggest that the only reason to calibrate is because you have a desire to experience an image based on video standards. Fulfilling that desire is not directly related to the cost of the display but rather the ability to calibrate the display. Price and brand alone doesn’t directly determine how well any given display calibrates or performs and plenty have been hood winked into believing such anecdotal conclusions!
If you have no interest in calibration why should you spend the first dollar to have the service performed? Pragmatic common sense suggests that is a waste of money, regardless of the marketing approaches, such as the ever useful cost relationship, that may be used to get calibration money out of you. I repeat, merely creating a perception of quality imaging is easily achieved by an end user or installer by adjusting the controls to their satisfaction; you don’t need a calibration disc or calibration to video standards to create that perception! Yet spending money on a service you don’t really understand, want, appreciate or care about is common sense simply because your stuff costs more?
The only thing that has changed between now and years ago is that the overall price of acquiring this desire, display plus calibration, has fallen only because the price of the display has fallen. All that matters in the end is that the display can be properly calibrated, regardless of price. In today’s market, you can get video standards in your home for way less than you could years ago for the same size display. That’s great news if you desire video standards!
You could just as easily make your image worse playing with a calibration DVD.
Adding to that... And it’s likely the end user won’t change the controls due to the false sense of security that naturally comes with performing this process, another common attribute of self calibration I regularly witness; I did what the disc said so this must be what correct looks like. If you don’t know how this stuff works then you need somebody who does because a calibration disc can improve your picture for little money when used properly. A professional calibrator can do that and more, taking you to the next level providing accurate color and gamma.
The author removed this post for personal reasons, and prefers to be disconnected from this thread.
My service does include more than a simple display calibration in most cases.
My blog is intended to help people by sharing my observations with both audio and video. I cannot possibly work on every system, but I would like to see more people have better value. I also like to see fewer large installation errors.
My gear did cost about $40,000. The 5nm PR-670 alone cost me $24,000. The assumption that test gear is outdated quickly is false. I do upgrade and modify capability when it makes sense and recalibrate my gear, but that costs about $4,000 a year. I also work on many times more than 100 systems in a year.
I never work on home systems less than about $5,000 and most are over $20,000 and some are around $1,000,0000. I believe audio/video calibration and design services for the home are seen as a percentage of the cost. Post production is a different story where quality is the goal independent of equipment cost.
My blog is intended to help people by sharing my observations with both audio and video. I cannot possibly work on every system, but I would like to see more people have better value. I also like to see fewer large installation errors.
My gear did cost about $40,000. The 5nm PR-670 alone cost me $24,000. The assumption that test gear is outdated quickly is false. I do upgrade and modify capability when it makes sense and recalibrate my gear, but that costs about $4,000 a year. I also work on many times more than 100 systems in a year.
I never work on home systems less than about $5,000 and most are over $20,000 and some are around $1,000,0000. I believe audio/video calibration and design services for the home are seen as a percentage of the cost. Post production is a different story where quality is the goal independent of equipment cost.
Umr,
The links/articles mentioned in your post include adjustments and tasks related to design, selection, and installation, not only calibration, such as screen gain, video processing, projector position, lamp power, throw ratio, keystone, lens shift, screen material, projector mounting, etc. An impressive list, are you doing all that for $400?
This thread is about TV calibration and I assume the person expects an honest and educated answer.
Regarding the $40,000 calibrator equipment mentioned on your second link, are you sure you have the zeros right? A calibrator would need to perform at least 100 calibrations of $400 with no income for his labor just to break even in hardware investment, and by then the equipment is obsolete. Can that equipment take me to the moon as well? Does it do dishes?
Nobody questions that audio and video can be improved if they are well calibrated, but I do not agree with creating a taboo halo around it and pushing “all” consumers to pay for these services regardless of the price most pay for their usually low/medium end audio/video equipment at the corner store. I am glad in one of the options your web site considers the use of the HD Basics disc.
I recommended educating consumers for “them” to make an intelligent choice.
I wonder if any calibrator not having time available for his own TVs would let his wife pay $400 to other calibrator to work on her $800 panel.
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
I have not seen Richard nor Jeff Ppushing anyone to use their services and I know them both to be professionals whodo a good job of quaifying their clients and making sure that they are giveing them what thye need and desire. Both provide services that go far beyond the typical calibration of a display that one myight get from a BB calibration and include services that consider the wntire system and the client in the process.
It seems like you are doing your best to beg for an argument, Rodolfo, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I don't know of very many people who have given more "honest and educated answers" to more people for free and whoeducate more consumers more effectively than Richard and Jeff. Apparently you have some beef or agenda that is unstated here.
The links/articles mentioned in your post include adjustments and tasks related to design, selection, and installation, not only calibration, such as screen gain, video processing, projector position, lamp power, throw ratio, keystone, lens shift, screen material, projector mounting, etc. An impressive list, are you doing all that for $400?
This thread is about TV calibration and I assume the person expects an honest and educated answer.
Regarding the $40,000 calibrator equipment mentioned on your second link, are you sure you have the zeros right? A calibrator would need to perform at least 100 calibrations of $400 with no income for his labor just to break even in hardware investment, and by then the equipment is obsolete. Can that equipment take me to the moon as well? Does it do dishes?
Nobody questions that audio and video can be improved if they are well calibrated, but I do not agree with creating a taboo halo around it and pushing “all” consumers to pay for these services regardless of the price most pay for their usually low/medium end audio/video equipment at the corner store. I am glad in one of the options your web site considers the use of the HD Basics disc.
I recommended educating consumers for “them” to make an intelligent choice.
I wonder if any calibrator not having time available for his own TVs would let his wife pay $400 to other calibrator to work on her $800 panel.
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
I have not seen Richard nor Jeff Ppushing anyone to use their services and I know them both to be professionals whodo a good job of quaifying their clients and making sure that they are giveing them what thye need and desire. Both provide services that go far beyond the typical calibration of a display that one myight get from a BB calibration and include services that consider the wntire system and the client in the process.
It seems like you are doing your best to beg for an argument, Rodolfo, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I don't know of very many people who have given more "honest and educated answers" to more people for free and whoeducate more consumers more effectively than Richard and Jeff. Apparently you have some beef or agenda that is unstated here.
With 5 computers, 4 of which are used in photo retouching and 3 TVs I've "checked" the calibration, but have never found the need to change it after setting it "by eye". Admittedly working with many thousands of photos over many years, (both the old physical way and now digital) I probably have better than average color recognition. So far I've always been able to set up monitors and TVs without needing a disk. Now days the color setup is very easy, but I'd recommend most at least get a calibration disk.
For "do-it-yourselfers" there are too many outside influences that affect what you see as colors, saturation, brightness, and contrast. Among these are the type and location of external light, room color, or colors in the room, and above all your own eyes. Hence the reason I'd recommend the disk. Having said that, there are many people who just aren't up to the task, particularly when you not only have the color balance, but hue, saturation, brightness, and contrast. So, it becomes one of those, "You pays your money and makes your choice".
For those that say this is not new technology, much of the implementation is new with each new model of set and particularly if it's one of the first to arrive at the dealers. Rarely do I purchase an extended warranty, but I still do on the latest model HD sets and so far they have saved me money. OTOH when purchasing a TV I usually go for the latest models if not the largest. If a model hasn't been on the market for more than 3 months, I'd get the extended warranty. Even after 6 months I'm still a bit wary and check the manufacturing dates.
As to the "Big-box-stores" I've not recently had any one of them try to sell me a lot of extras although I did go into Radio Shack to purchase some cable and connectors and have a clerk insist I was purchasing the wrong cables and connectors. You don't gain anything by paying top dollar for cables and accessories other than bragging rights.
For "do-it-yourselfers" there are too many outside influences that affect what you see as colors, saturation, brightness, and contrast. Among these are the type and location of external light, room color, or colors in the room, and above all your own eyes. Hence the reason I'd recommend the disk. Having said that, there are many people who just aren't up to the task, particularly when you not only have the color balance, but hue, saturation, brightness, and contrast. So, it becomes one of those, "You pays your money and makes your choice".
For those that say this is not new technology, much of the implementation is new with each new model of set and particularly if it's one of the first to arrive at the dealers. Rarely do I purchase an extended warranty, but I still do on the latest model HD sets and so far they have saved me money. OTOH when purchasing a TV I usually go for the latest models if not the largest. If a model hasn't been on the market for more than 3 months, I'd get the extended warranty. Even after 6 months I'm still a bit wary and check the manufacturing dates.
As to the "Big-box-stores" I've not recently had any one of them try to sell me a lot of extras although I did go into Radio Shack to purchase some cable and connectors and have a clerk insist I was purchasing the wrong cables and connectors. You don't gain anything by paying top dollar for cables and accessories other than bragging rights.
I'm of the old school where the eye of the beholder is the best determination. I've used the calibration disk on my HDTVs and found that I had to tweek the adjustments for my own situation. The lighting in the living room is different from the family room, just as the lighting in the rec room is different from the bedrooms. In the Summer I bring the TV from the rec room in the basement up to the screened in porch which is all windows and I have to adjust for the bright room. All eyes are different and perceive colors differently. My neighbor who is partially colorblind has the colors set so vivid that it burns my eyes and I have to close my eyes or look away every minute or so to not get a headache. This is easy to do as he has such a hot wife.