I have not been able to view a good HD picture since the end of 06 or beginning of 07. The problem is pixelation causing an out of focus picture. After 3 repairs to my set it was replaced with a Sony A2020 SXRD. Although the SXRD has some O/B reliability issues it produces one of the best pics in HD with 6.2 Million pixels. But it also shows signal flaws better than most. New HDTV with the same problem. I then suspected Comcast as being the problem. Their technicians were baffled as they could clearly see the pixelation. As one tech said it's a good pic but nowhere near HD quality. They then realized that they could see it from there office two towns over on a 15 inch LCD. After 5 months of trouble shooting they said with the cable system removed that it was what they were getting for a feed to them. The tech supervisor said he could not believe more people were not complaining about it but there was nothing they could do.
Now I have DirectTv and they have the same problem. Comcast was telling the truth. Anyone who did not have HD prior to 07 would not know what a HD pic is supposed to look like. I am suspecting that the entire network has been compressing the signal beyond it's capability.
I have spent over a year working on this problem.
Rick
PS. Help!!!
The problem is with all digital and HD channels with some being worse than others. Go to a station like Discovery HD or any station with a fixed logo or lettering in the corner and you will see pixelation around them. Then you will see it's actually in the whole picture. Some sets hide it well but the problem is still there. HD is supposed to be a crisp and detailed picture as it was in 2006. Could it be that when all analog signals are dropped it will be fixed? I just do not know.
Rick
I just checked and I have no such pixellation on Discovery HD or any other channel. It must be in your equipment or settings.
Which DirecTV receiver/DVR are you using? How is it connected to the TV? What is the native resolution of your display? What resolution are you feeding the TV?
I wish it was the equipment. I just came home from a friends house and although it is difficult to see the pixelation on his Plasma set the out of focus picture is there. Keep in mind that Comcast admitted that they could see the problem and that I was only one of a few that brought it to their attention. As a technician myself I have exhausted every path to a solution to this problem. I took a digital pic of my HDTV in early 06 while I was tuned to Discovery HD and it is quite the reminder of what HD is supposed to look like. Is there any way to attach pictures here?
Rick
Not sure as to what DirectTv box I have. It has HD/DVR and the same problem as Comcast so I can rule that out. I am connected via HDMI cable with 1080i coming into a 1080p HDTV.
It is important to note that Comcast gave me a video credit back to Feb 07 as they completely ruled out my equipment. But could no longer credit me in the future as it was not their fault but the main feed they where getting without the cable. Comcast was not only honest but correct. I have to tell you I was shocked when I got DirectTv and had the same problem. Even though I could see the problem on other sets besides my own. Think about what Comcast admitted to as a problem and it will point us in a surprising direction. I just do not know the answer. I can only assume. C/C does not replace HDTV'S under warranty for no reason and a independent tech suspected the signal coming in back in July when he hooked up a HD signal generator to my previous tv. The bottom line is we are all paying for HD and only a few of us realize that we are not getting true HD. CNET forums is where I found out that I am not alone. Some interesting posts in 07 prior to my own...subject: Pixelation in HD content the signal or the television.
Rick
Oh good grief - that article is talking about compression artifacts that occur during fast moving scenes. I get that during the flash bulbs on the opening scenes from CSI - even on full bandwidth OTA. Same with the fashion show - mpeg2 just can't keep up when every pixel changes at once.
Every broadcaster does compression of some kind - the question is how much. Some say satellite has more compression but with the new mpeg4 satellites I'm not sure that's true anymore. Cable will do compression because they are bandwidth restricted by the single coax line. Even OTA does compression to some extent - more if they're multi-casting.
So we may be seeing more compression now than before.
But you seem to be talking about a "fuzzy picture" all of the time and I for one don't see that and I've had HDTV for 4-5 years including OTA and satellite.
BTW - while your TV may contain 6.2M pixels, the display is still 1920x1080 or just over 2M pixels displayed.
Y'all guys talk nice to each other, please. We have one person trying to identify a problem he's convinced exists and another wanting to diagnose the problem described. The first thinks Comcast and others have already done all the diagnosing needed, while the second wants to do the diagnosis personally. Y'all work this out because the rest of us are interested in the outcome.
Thank you,
Sandy
I'm just trying to understand the problem. There is a difference between a picture that's "fuzzy all the time" and motion pixellation. Everyone gets some pixellation to some degree during fast motion or flash scenes and some sources are worse than others. But I don't think that has any effect on overall picture quality that would make it look "fuzzy" all the time.
Rick - why don't you have your set ISF calibrated and see what the calibrator says and then see what it looks like?
I'm interested in this posting because of the remarks regarding pixellation.
But first, my input regarding HD signal quality and "not getting true HD" via cable. I am currently using Time Warner's HD service in the Charlotte, NC area. My Cable box is a Scientific Atlanta Model 8300HD w/DVR and my TV is a Samsung 56" DLP Model HLS5679 w/ LED Light engine. For the network HD broadcasts, the picture quality is truly outstanding. No blur, no "fuzzy" picture!! Some programs are more "tuned" to HD than others...such as ABC's Dancing With The Stars". The set lighting and scene color pallet that they use provide an almost "real life" experience. Both FOX and NBC's NFL broadcasts are equally stunning. I do not see any indication of a "fuzzy" picture and a 56" display would definitely intensify that, if it existed. So, based on my personal cable HD experience (18 months worth), I see nothing remotely like what is described by A330cow.
Now regarding pixellation; I do see occasional, random pixellation, most often in a small area of the overall picture. Not consistent, not repetitive and with varying degrees of pixel size. My "impression" is that this occurs more in the late afternoon and evening hours. After a lot of reading and research, I have come to the conclusion that the problem is most likely due to Time Warner's cable bandwidth limitations. More sets requesting more HD signal content... occasional dropped packets.
I am seriously considering Direct TV for a number of reasons, pixellation being one of them. I would like to hear more about the HD signal quality from the newest Direct TV satellites and the new encoding methodology, specifically can anyone offer information that shows that the compression artifacts have been reduced with this new technology?
Many Thanks and keep up the good communications!
DLPDude
I've had OTA HD locals for over 4 years and I've had mpeg4 HD locals over satellite for about 18 months (Atlanta). I've done A/B tests on my 55" Mits CRT RPTV at 1080i on network shows and football games and I never noticed any significant difference in PQ between OTA and Satellite. I don't have any A/B comparison available for cable HD channels like HDNet but I've never seen a flaw in Discovery HD.
I have noticed what appears to be signal dropouts in the original feed from the HD locals to DirecTV. Given your description of your cable situation I can't imagine DirecTV would be any worse and might be better.
All broadcast systems have artifacts, some more than others. OTA is regarded as the best. That leaves you with satellite or cable. Cable can have an advantage over satellite - your mileage will vary.
Rick, I see those artifacts ALL THE TIME but I am also very sensitive to such things and most simply do not see it, at all.
The question of scan rate you will have to explain as to what that is on my sat box. If you mean 1080i then yes. I do like DirerectTv for other reasons that I will not get into here. DirectTv will come out tomorrow and I will discuss my issue with the picture. Then I have c/c coming on Tuesday to look at my set. I told them they should bring a HD signal generator with them as I needed to rule out my set as the problem. But I am going full circle here as I can see the problem on HD sets at other locations in the Boston area, only not not as detailed as I see it on my set.
As to calibration...I can turn down the sharpness to a point where I can almost get rid of the pixelation but I am left with a worse out of focus picture. But then again I have had some very sharp techs already try this and several other approaches with no luck.
Most people would not even see what I am seeing, but I can't let it go. Not until it's right or I have an honest answer as to why it is not.
Rick
The DirectTv tech just left my house after a lengthy conversation. Much of what we discussed was off the record to keep him out of trouble. He said that I was one of only a few costumers that have noticed this problem. He also said it started about a year ago when more compression was needed to make room for the additional HD channels. He agreed with the Comcast techs as the picture being good but not even close to HD and that I needed to talk with someone at the engineering level as there was nothing a tech could do to fix it. Shame on the bozo's who allowed this kind of compression.
Thank you Richard for this info. So if I understand this correctly both cable, satellite and the networks are doing more with less at the consumers expense. I guess it is time to buy a BlueRay player.
Rick
Broadcast HDTV was designed for 3 screen heights but I have yet to witness that level of quality. Don't forget the mess of other stuff up the chain before it ever makes it out of the studio. That's the beauty of DVD and even more so with Blu-ray providing a direct feed from disc to display at 1080p24. You simply can't get any closer the source!
If you are seeing this stuff then OTA is THE ONLY way to go to reduce it. Increasing your viewing distance helps but that same move will detract from HD because you are too far away to resolve the full resolution so you need to move back up for a quality delivery such as Blu-ray. Talked with a colleague today and that is exactly what he does. For me, we watch broadcast on a 50" at about 5-6 screen heights - helps a lot! HD disc is reserved for the 106" 1.78 or 124" 2.35. Even quality SD DVD upconversion works on the big rig and surpasses cable HD for noise.
What I find odd is that you say you are just now seeing this yet I have been seeing it since 2002 via OTA, my cable only makes it worse, satellite even more. This sounds like a case of finally seeing something you had not before and now that you know, well, the blissful ignorance has faded.
This is a great time to say that external scaling can help. Current scaling goes beyond quality conversion; the new marketing strength is in complex noise reduction to help folks like you and I but bear in mind they detract from the overall response in cleaning things up; it's not Hi Fi but it's cleaner looking to the eye. At over $2000 I'll stick with my methods instead - increase viewing distance by moving back or staying where I am and decrease screen size.
One thing is for sure, even bit starved HD looks far better than what we were getting before via NTSC. Let's not knock it around too much but let's also be real about it's short comings and that others may come to realize that.
I went through my notes today of all the conversations I had with different techs and put together the puzzle as to why I did not notice this problem until early 2007. A Comcast tech told me that when Adelphia wired their towns that it was done with low quality...cheap cable. But they were not over taxing the system because they did not offer much with limited HD channels and sub par broadband. Along comes Comcast and they take over all of Adelphia systems in our area around the end of 2006. When then cut the Adelphia feed and put on their own around Feb 07 thats when I noticed the problem. Great broadband and a lousy picture. But my o/b failed on my TV so I was distracted from this as being a equipment problem. I still do not see a great picture in Comcast wired towns but it is better than my own.
So the big question I have is can Verizon Fios bring my picture back to what it was in 06?
Thanks, Rick
I guess this concludes this subject as there is no remedy within my control. As an aircraft technician when I know something is not the way it's supposed to be I never give up until it is right. I will buy that BlueRay player, wait for FIOS to become available and hope for the best.
Thank you all for your input, Rick
Yep, that is what I was just gonna suggest!