I'm wondering if anyone can answer this question. In my current system, I'm using an A/V receiver for surround sound and I have the TV set's speakers as the center channel speaker by running an S-video cable for video and a RCA cable to the left channel input on the TV from the center channel out jack on the receiver and the audio on the TV set to mono. This is working fairly well since my receiver lets me adjust each speaker in the surround system individually. My question is, when I finally upgrade to HDTV and a receiver with HDMI capability, will I be able to feed the video to the TV with an HDMI cable and still use the speakers in the TV as a center channel by running the audio through a separate RCA cable like I'm doing now or will the Audio from the HDMI cable be the only sound the TV will play? In other words, can I use a separate audio source if I use an HDMI cable? This would be something the TV would have to allow. Are there TVs that let one do that?
The answer is possibly yet in the end not even recommended. Flat panel speakers for the most leave much to be desired. What could make it possible is an HDMI input that also has an RCA stereo input. To make it work may require you tell your A/V receiver to not send digital audio out or it could be switched by the TV just by using the RCA connections.
My question is, when I finally upgrade to HDTV and a receiver with HDMI capability, will I be able to feed the video to the TV with an HDMI cable and still use the speakers in the TV as a center channel
It might be difficult to do that with HDMI. The much better choice, when you upgrade to HDTV, is to also buy a center channel speaker. They are not all that expensive. This way you will get better sound than what speakers often are in TVs.
I pretty much figured I'd probably end up getting a center channel speaker, I just figured if they're building a hi-def TV, they'd upgrade the speakers since most people don't bother with external speakers anyway, and if you have a decent set of speakers already closer to the screen then you'd ever get with an external center channel speaker, why not put them to use? And you were right Richard, I did mean A/V receiver, it was early in the morning and my brain wasn't fully functioning yet. See how easy it was to fix though! Thanks for the replies.
Probably before you began "noticing" HDTVs, the early sets actually came without Any sound system whatever !
The vast majority of HDTVs are so lacking in available interior space that - as Richard says - the existing amp / speakers are quite poor, regardless of the Brand / model.
Especially now with the 5.1 Dolby + contained in our HD signals, essentially all should have a separate Sound System ! Not going to happen, of course, but perhaps these should have continued to be offered w/o any sound at all !
Do take your time - the selection of ( 5) appropriate separate speakers & the Sub Woofer will deserve as much time / effort as will your HDTV itself ! But, your efforts will be handsomely rewarded. This associated sound can be as outstanding as IS the HD!
eli
Good advice by all here. Internal speakers on most displays, and certainly on all flat panel sets regardless of cost, are only for non-critical use (like when the TV is in the kitchen or similar.) If you are going to be watching HD broadcasts and taking advantage of more than two channel sound (highly likely in this day and age with most people who purchase HD equipment knowing its potential) then the only way to go is with separate, dedicated speakers. And just as important (and something I can't stress too much) is that to produce the best sound all three speakers in the frront soundstage (Left, Center, Right) should be acoustically equal. In some cases the center channel speaker can't be physically the same size as the L&R choices (sometimes they are) but quality manufacturers have come up with ways to handle this.
And don't forget that the most important speaker, in my opinion, is the center channel because thats where probably ~90% of the dialogue will come from. People who spend a lot of money on a surround system and then decide to use the internal speaker of the display for the center channel are really wasting their money since they are making the most important channel the weakest link by a long shot.
The center is critical. Notice in the stores such as best buy, Bose demo displays do not have dvd's playing that have dialog but just use crashing cars etc. Their tiny center is week at best. Spend the money and get some-
thing good like Vienna Acoustics $799 or Martin Logan $999. You will be happy you did.
For our upstairs casual viewing system we use a stereo speaker system with sub intended for PC. Works great and absolutely stomps the TV speakers. I'm an audiophile, got the big rig down stairs, I am 100% satisfied with this application.
You don't have to spend a lot to at least get in the ballpark!
I think you have redefined the concept of an "audiophile".....it is however nothing that I recognize.
$10 computer speakers and a sub huh? That's like saying you have a sportscar..... a 1984 Yugo with
racing stripes.
We support all kinds of users from newbie lets simply get it working to the high end video or audiophile. As stated, for the application it fulfills the purpose, decent sound and is far better than what is on the TV.
At this price range, as with all inexpensive products, it succeeds by errors of omission rather than commission.
The point is you don't have to spend a bundle for clearly better and what is wrong with supporting that.
I have purchased the top of the line Logitech Z-5500 for my daugther. They are not perfect, but incredibly cost efficient - like $250 on the street and THX rated, 500 real watts. I have a co worker who while drowning in money, is very tight - and he bought them for his main system and he and family are very happy.
I'm a Definitive Tech fan...and their ProCinema line is nice as well (but ranging from $600-$1600). And there are many others as well (too many for easy decisions!).
But, nothing I know of can compare to the Logi 5500 in price/quality. Heck, you don't even need a receiver, it has a controller with a Dolby Digital decoder, 6.1 inputs, etc. and a remote control. It really is amazing (and killer for a PC also).
I accidentally came across this thread, and although the advice was correct about not using the TV amp/speaker for permanent installations, there were certain factors that were not addressed, and the first part of this article highlights those factors:
In consideration to those that are strapped for money, I must say that for A) temporary applications in B) a small room at C) very low audio volumes, a RPTV (some with subs into them) could let you enjoy until you find the final multichannel audio system for your needs, and for some people that final never arrives.
Perhaps it's just me, but unless money isn't an issue, why pay bust out retail for a speaker? Out of all the things in your HT, speakers have the least "moving parts" that can go bad with time and overuse. Buy used! Go to audiogon.com. I scored a perfectly good Revel Performa C50 center speaker, lists for $3000, for $1100. Close to three years and not one problem. I could see being wary about getting one of those complicated big time AV receivers used because of all the delicate computer stuff involved, but speakers? Come on, you get so much more for your money and speakers hardly depreciate in quality, unless they are really old.
Generally, good advice. However, speakers have a couple of caveats that might or might not be important. If they have been mistreated (overloaded) by the previous owner(s) then there might be some subtle damage that could become a problem later on. A small tear in a cone, for example, might not be very, if at all, noticeable when you get your bargain home. However, over time the distortion might become greater as the tear (or whatever) gets larger. Also, it's not true that speakers have the least "moving parts" in the literal sense. Speakers are all about moving air and how and when they do this is critical. I realize you were probably talking more about moving dials, switches, etc. in receivers and other components and it is true, of course, that you usually "set and forget" speaker parameters for the most part. However, let's not forget that there is a lot of movement going on at all times - but just not by the user but by the device itself.
Finally, while it's true that excellent speakers last a very long time (and many great "used" bargains can be had for those willing to do their homework) they don't necessarily last as long as, say, good amplifiers. The problem is that the materials or the adhesive, or the supports, etc. that hold it all together will age over time and if we get to a quarter century or so, some drying out, etc. is inevitable so deterioration of materials and sound will occur. Granted, more modern materials withstand the ravishes of time better than speakers from 50 years ago, but nothing is really forever as long as current speaker designs are around (with a few exceptions).
Like I said, I concur with your overall statement regarding the possibility of some great finds in used and discontinued speakers. However, it's not easy to determine whether these speakers were driven by that little old lady in Pasadena or the Acid Rock fan in Petaluma. <g>
The problem is that the materials or the adhesive, or the supports, etc. that hold it all together will age over time and if we get to a quarter century or so, some drying out, etc. is inevitable so deterioration of materials and sound will occur.
Same thing happens to electronics - especially electrolytic capacitors...
Oh! Scuze me, that's called classic or vintage sound...
Point taken, Richard. As I sit here looking at my old tube equipment I realized that someone would probably bring this up. Yes, nothing is forever (just tell my body that!) but it is true that longevity could be made a priority a bit more if the dreaded bottom line wasn't in corporate play. I think that we can all agree that good speakers and good amps have a better chance of staying in our systems longer than most other components because they do what they were designed to do and will not become obsolescent. (I'd probably put my Stewart Studiotek 130 screen into that same category.) Things like pre/pros, players and displays, on the other hand, are normally replaced because of lacking features rather than wearing out. I speak from expereicne. When I abandoned my HDMI-impaired Lexicon MC-8 for a Denon 3806 and then a Denon 3808ci it wasn't because the Lexicon suddenly stopped working. (Anyone want to buy a perfectly functioning MC-8?) It was because it couldn't handle HDMI and advanced audio codecs. My revolving door in this vein continues as I expect to take delivery on my Denon AVP-A1HDci pre/pro within a month or so.
Perhaps it's just me, but unless money isn't an issue, why pay bust out retail for a speaker? Out of all the things in your HT, speakers have the least "moving parts" that can go bad with time and overuse. Buy used! Go to audiogon.com. I scored a perfectly good Revel Performa C50 center speaker, lists for $3000, for $1100. Close to three years and not one problem. I could see being wary about getting one of those complicated big time AV receivers used because of all the delicate computer stuff involved, but speakers? Come on, you get so much more for your money and speakers hardly depreciate in quality, unless they are really old.
Well Reg, you jinxed me Not two weeks after I wrote that, the mid-range driver on the Revel failed. Figures! I took a chance that it wasn't a faulty crossover (the woofers still worked) and sent away for another driver. Cost me $187 and I even managed to solder the new one on without incident. That's at the outer limits of my technical ability. Figured I saved about $200+ in shipping and labor costs, plus the good feeling you get from doing it yourself.
Not two weeks after I wrote that, the mid-range driver on the Revel failed. Figures! I took a chance that it wasn't a faulty crossover (the woofers still worked) and sent away for another driver. Cost me $187 and I even managed to solder the new one on without incident. That's at the outer limits of my technical ability. Figured I saved about $200+ in shipping and labor costs, plus the good feeling you get from doing it yourself.