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Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD Player - HiDeffjeff's review

Started by HiDeffjeff • Apr 20, 2006 • 45 posts
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#1
Okay, here goes...The first thing you are gonna want to do is throw the remote control in the garbage...No backlit buttons and the lettering is unviewable without 100 watt lights overhead...(not a big deal to me cause I use the MX-3000)...Picture quality is only a notch or two above a good upscalable player, but I do like the way the aspect ratio looks better than conventional upscaled dvd players, The big WOW is the audio!...Man, I noticed the difference immediately!...The sound quality is astounding!...I am not much on menu's and gaming so I will leave that for someone else to comment on...---Bottom Line-----I was disappointed in the quality of video...looks exactly like Directv HD Movies...(crystal clear on close ups, but unfocused on zoomed out shots)...But I am glad I bought it for the audio portion...If you are not a big audio buff, don't even waste your money on Blu-Ray technology...I think we are getting close to peaking out on video quality in movies...Now only 1080P (or higher) left to review...BTW, I have never seen HD-VHS (Dtheater) so there's a chance it is actually better than this so called "pure" HD-DVD...(as far as video anyways)... :cry: Oh, I forgot to mention that I watched the movie and listened to sound through HDMI (which no doubt accounts for the semi lossless audio)...simply amazing sound quality. I have the new Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXvi receiver with 2 HDMI in and 1 out. The movie I watched was "Serenity" it is 1080P. (wish I had a 1080P projector) One more thing to note: My receiver (VSX-74TXvi) automatically plays these movies through the THX SACD music mode...AWESOME!...If your receiver doesn't have HDMI you probably won't hear the WOW factor. I'm thinking that video shot specials like DiscoveryHD and Chronos type video camera stuff will be more impressive....also, I was told that a firmware upgrade will be available to output 1080P from this player. (I would wait for the next generation player myself)
#2
Thanks for the review.

You may not really see the full video benefits until you change projectors as I have noticed the same video response with the Panasonic. With the Samsung the difference is far more clear and evident.

That type of problem could hurt the promotion of this product because there are many more displays that will have a similar result.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I watched the movie and listened to sound through HDMI (which no doubt accounts for the semi lossless audio)...simply amazing sound quality.


Another poor point in all this. I and many others will need to upgrade the reciever to get that level of performance.

Check out the following comment from Rodolfo...
#3
----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Jason,

Regarding your request of help about audio.

The multichannel matter on both Hi Def formats is a big can of worms.

It forced me to write a couple of sections on the report to explain how that works and which
connections to use.

DTS and DD 5.1 are both mandatory for HD DVD. English 5.1 could mean any of the two, it does not
necessarily means DD 5.1.

You will NOT get the new audio formats using optical or coax legacy connections, the player will
bitstream to the receiver (or pre/pro), which would use its legacy decoder (DTS or DD).

You should have been able to transport the new multichannel formats using the analog connections
(6-8 earlier used for DVD-Audio) as you did, but since the decoding takes place on the player, and
HD DVD has standardized "an irrational" minimum 2CH mandatory decoding player circuitry (not the 8
channels), you are out of luck with True-HD using this road.

The subject is much more complex, I just touched the surface.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra
#4
Thanks for the review.

You may not really see the full video benefits until you change projectors as I have noticed the same video response with the Panasonic. With the Samsung the difference is far more clear and evident.

That type of problem could hurt the promotion of this product because there are many more displays that will have a similar result.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I watched the movie and listened to sound through HDMI (which no doubt accounts for the semi lossless audio)...simply amazing sound quality.


Another poor point in all this. I and many others will need to upgrade the reciever to get that level of performance.

Check out the following comment from Rodolfo...

Yeah, this is what I was afraid of...Alot of the early adopters will not see the capabilities of this new player...I sure hope my source was correct about the firmware upgrade to 1080P output on this player....That way when I move up to the Optoma HD81 I should be in business. Richard, The new Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXvi is right now the least expensive at that place www.bajangles.com I think it is $930.00 plus 45.00 shipping. The unit is pretty darn good for that price...It is ipod ready and XM ready to boot. (I had the Flagship VSX-59TXi and cannot tell any difference in power)...I dumped it on ebay when I knew these HD-DVD players would only do lossless through HDMI...For the price, I doubt it can be beat.
#5
Richard, You know the weird thing is I had alot better picture on the same Panasonic PT-AE900U projector when I played Terminator2 "Extreme DVD" through my laptop...and it was 1080P...How do we account for this?
#6
Don't know yet because actual performance of the player appears to be impossible to check right now; no calibration disc to check HD DVD...

This is a bigger problem than most realize; it is the first thing I do with any player; confirm the patterns are getting displayed correctly.

Your disc though should be WMVHD and that is the codec Joe Kane preferred over MPEG4. Maybe that is what you are seeing. Could be the scaling form your laptop was better. Have you tried that disc in the Toshiba? That may also be an answer for testing since DVE Pro does have one disc of WMVHD testing.

What connection and scan rate are you feeding the projector?

As for the projector it simply has a soft appearance. My old Mits CRT RP appears sharper. For a week I kept trying to find HD detail that I knew had to be there but it simply was not showing up.
#7
I sure hope my source was correct about the firmware upgrade to 1080P output on this player


Me too!
#8
Richard, I am feeding the projector 720P since that is the native scan rate...I am using HDMI for connection....You are correct, the Terminator2 "extreme" is in WMVHD...BTW, that's a good idea about trying to play it in the Toshiba player. I will try it when I get home.
#9
I just took 2 hours out of my day to go on the other side of the world and pick one up at a warehouse. Wife is picking up Serenity on the way home.

Jeff, you are a good/bad influence... :wink:

Recommend 720P for SD but we may very well find 1080I for HD is better. Will do some testing. I have a new calibration disc from the ISF for comsumers that has WMVHD on it but this disc is not intended for calibrators and have not had time to plug it in to see exactly what that is supposed to mean...

Will keep you posted.
#10
darn...I wish you had a Pioneer VSX-74Txvi to listen through...Man, you've just "got" to hear it!... :) ...I suppose you can run analog cables through your existing receiver...won't be quite as good but I would be curious to know if you could hear it... :)
#11
I have heard it... D-Theater ! :lol:
#12
Before you pop in that WMVHD disc this just came in from Jason...

WMV-HD does not play...in fact it hangs the whole system and I can't even eject...I have to wait almost 10 minutes for it to time out and say it can't read it.
#13
Richard, too late...I played it and it worked but didn't look very good at all...(only the menu part would work)...couldn't get the actual movie to play...GOOD NEWS!!!!....You were right!....The Panny looks incredible in 1080i instead of 720P (even though that is the native scan rate)...(so much for the native scan rate always being the best)...I am soooooooooo HAPPY!...I need to amend my original review now...
#14
It appears that I jumped the gun with my initial review...I had assumed that the native scan rate would be the best because that's what I've always heard...But it turns out that the Panasonic PT-AE900U projector likes 1080i ALOT better from this new Toshiba HD-DVD Player...The picture quality is now absolutely incredible!...I am more than happy with the picture now!...It looks at least 3 times better than Directv's HD movies!...and again, the audio is astounding as well...Must use HDMI receiver.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
#15
Glad to hear it did not want to chew on your disc for 10 minutes before giving it back. 8)

While not every display follows this what I find common out in the field is the following...

For SD scaling to the native scan rate tends to yield the best performance.

With HD you typically get the best response by letting the display do the scaling so if your STB supports it set it for native, if not 1080I because most programming is 1080I. I have been studying converted waveform responses for a while now and so far all make a mess of them whether it is 1080I to 720P or the opposite.

So, with HD movies which are already native 1080P or 1080I best to leave it at 1080I or 1080P output, in our case 1080I.

Yup, watched half the movie at 720P and the other half at 1080I and what a huge difference! So huge I have to say the it appears the Toshiba does a very poor job of scaling to 720P as I have never seen such a huge difference before with any STB. It is not just detail but also severe aliasing artifacts in the horizontal plane.

With that I went ahead and tested SD at 1080I out and it scaled pretty good to but the final conclusion will have to wait until an SD movie.

As for audio there is still an advantage over compressed SD since the content is HD scaled down. Sounded real good for me and it is cool to know it can be better when kept native.

On another note I am not pleased with this hardware and the way it operates. Press stop and you get to start all over from the opening DVD titles to the menu. Same thing if you change the scan rate. Constant blue screen HDCP kicks in as the handshake protocol is confirmed with each change of content; I mean ya know everything is cool, why the constant checking!?! Up down on my remote is terrible and I have to push the buttons real hard to get a response. The remote is unledgible unless you have the lights on full blast and it is not backlit.
#16
Will this unit work with a HDMI to DVI hookup.
#17
Yes!

The DVI must be HDCP compatible though....
#18
Jeff,

It seems the audio we listened to was not HD audio as much as less compressed audio compared to a SD DVD; and it may have been just SD DVD audio.

I checked the receiver you suggested and it does not have any of the HD audio codecs.

You may find this article and exchange of interest.

Multi-channel Audio for HD
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=12051
#19 (edited May 29, 2006)
Richard...The receiver I have, The VSX-74Txvi has the correct HDMI for listening to DD+ and DTS HD.... The reason I know is cause when the movie starts it changes from THX Ultra Select 2 to THX Musicmode (which only used to come on with SACD cd's...If I plug in a conventional dvd it automatically switches back to THX Ultra Select 2 which is correct. Then if I eject the conventional dvd and put in the HD-DVD (such as Serenity), the receiver once again automatically switches to the SACD mode (THX Musicmode)...The difference is dramatic...so it must be working. This receiver was built with the soon to be released Pioneer Elite Blu-ray player in mind, so this may be why it works. All I know is...It definitely works!... :D I believe the codecs are in the Player itself...I think the Toshiba is designed to pass the TrueHD, DD+, DTSHD, signal through once it dedects the HDMI audio connection...I read an article online that said if you buy the Toshiba HD player and happen to be one of the few who have an HDMI receiver, you will be able to enjoy the Toshiba's DD+, DTS-HD, TrueHD in it's best form.
#20
Here is the scoop.

If you have HDMI 1.1 minimum for audio then what you will get is the decoded multichannel output from the source which is basically the same thing as connecting the analog multichannel outs to your receiver. With digital you retain the speaker settings and bass management provided by the receiver. With analog that typically has to come from the player. In essence your receiver is a D/A convertor.

To send the unprocessed HD audio digital stream from the player to your receiver requries HDMI 1.3 which is not on the market yet.

So yes Jeff, you did receive the full DD Plus experience and I did not! But I will... :wink: Just gotta find 6 cables and hope there is some bass management on the player.
#21
Richard...found this over at the AVSforums...maybe it will help???

Got the player! Got Phantom (DD TrUE) Got things set up in a true analog pass through on my MC-12, my calibrator is emailing down a custom bass software file to input into my DSP for this player. Set up should be ideal for audio and video! Can't wait to run it!!

Click here and scroll down...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... ge=8&pp=30
#22
Thanks Jeff but that is specifically for that product. I did grab the E-owners manual though, thanks!
#23
No problemo...Just thought you might find a useful tidbit over there in regards to analog hook up and bass management... :)
#24
I saw on this forum that WalMart was now selling the HD-DVD player. So I purchased one from WalMart and cancelled my online order. But this Toshiba HD-DVD player is a HD-D1. Does anyone know the difference between an HD-D1 and HD-A1?
#25
I saw on this forum that WalMart was now selling the HD-DVD player. So I purchased one from WalMart and cancelled my online order. But this Toshiba HD-DVD player is a HD-D1. Does anyone know the difference between an HD-D1 and HD-A1?

The HD-D1 is the all black version, no biggie.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Toshiba_HD_A1/4 ... 203-3.html
#26
A few more performance notes...

Use analog video instead of HDMI - something is going on with the color, peak white and peak black. As previously noted set for 1080I output regardless of the native resolution of your display. When upscaling SD DVD there are big color errors unless you are using 480P.

Audio performance is lacking using the analog outs, even with the HD audio codecs; expect sub $200 player performance. You may very well find SD audio via the SPDIF connection similar if not better. Best sound comes from using the HDMI digital multichannel output to an HDMI audio reciever.
#27
You may very well find SD audio via the SPDIF connection similar if not better.


This holds true in direct bit for bit comparisons with analog versus SPDIF but... if it has an HD audio sound track the analog outs will be better because only they will benefit from the increased bit rate and lack of compression. If your receiver supports digital multichannel HDMI you are covered, skip the analog.

While the analog is not great it does excel for what it does not do wrong so at least the sound will be pleasing rather than coarse/edgy.
#28
Some more audio points...

This I think can represent the 5 times improvement one looks for when upgrading versus the video side of this equation.

With a CD the issue was sampling rate only. In those comparisons to HD audio the difference was in tone and ambiance; as if someobdy else was performing the same song exactly the same way but with different instruments. With SD DVD and broadcast HD the issue is compression as well. In this regard there is a huge and clear difference between the SPDIF bitstream and the HD audio tracks of Serenity where it not only sounds better but your hear things that simply aren't there on the SD track.

That said I have a hard time seeing this important and clear performance point being of any real value to the mass market since everytime it is brought up audio is treated as the red headed step child of the HT system. In effect most are not aware of there even being a performance issue...
#29
Richard...looks like it's time to bite the bullet and go over to http://www.bajangles.com/viewitem.php?I ... ab=&model= and pick up one of these babies...It's down to $956.98 (including shipping) ...(That's 200.00 less than I paid)... :( ...You won't be sorry...The receiver's sweet.
#30
Richard...looks like it's time to bite the bullet and go over to http://www.bajangles.com/viewitem.php?I ... ab=&model= and pick up one of these babies...It's down to $956.98 (including shipping) ...(That's 200.00 less than I paid)... :( ...You won't be sorry...The receiver's sweet.

HiDeffjeff, I have been considering picking up this new Elite receiver. I currently have the flagship model VSX-59TXi, but it doesn't support HDMI (unfortunately). I read on one of your posts that you also owned the 59TXi but sold it on Ebay. My question is, Does the new 74TXVi seem to really have 140 watts per channel?...At half the weight, it wouldn't seem likely that it could punch out that much power?....If it indeed does put out that much clean power then I might want to pull the trigger on one. Or I may just wait for Pioneers new flagship which will probably support the new 1.3 HDMI audio. I am also interested in picking up one of the new HD DVD players.....I think I may just wait for the Samsung Blu-ray player which is due to be out in a month. I have read it puts out 1080P. Thanks.