HDMI 1.3 and audio - do I need that?

1.3 is worthless since the players decode internally and send lossless through to current HDMI receivers.

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Only 1.3 or analog outs support lossless such as TrueHD. You can send the DD+ bitstream and the DTS equivalent currently.

No, Richard you "can" currently right now receive TrueHD audio from the Toshiba HD-DVD player through HDMI to an HDMI receiver. That was part of the HD-A1's 2.0 upgrade...(you didn't know that?)... The new HD-A2 already has the 2.0 upgrade and also supports TrueHD audio through HDMI.

We are both correct. With further studying and a reply from Rodolfo...

You can send the decoded linear PCM version of DTS-HD or TrueHD via HDMI out to your HDMI equipped A/V receiver just like doing it with analog. Unlike the multichannel analog inputs HDMI retains the ability to use the digital signal processing of your receiver from different sound fields to room and speaker placement correction.

You must have HDMI 1.3 to send any of the HD audio bitstreams off the disc to your receiver which will do the decoding. Whether or not this is a better solution is open ended and the importance of that will depend on the end user. Think of this like internal scaling and external scaling; having this capability allows you to bypass the internal decoder of the source. A perfect video example is SDI video from a DVD player; that is the raw video bitstream coming off the disc to feed an external scaler bypassing everything else in the player.

You must have HDMI 1.3 on the receiver for HDMI video switching if you want to maintain 1.3 capability from source to display such as deep color.

And thanks for the post... I now own a Pioneer VSX81TXV!

Richard...I wanted to get back to you before you pulled the trigger... I have 2 Pioneer Elite receivers...both with HDMI, unfortunately the Pioneer doesn't pass 1080P through it's HDMI switching...I have the VSX-74TXvi and also the VSX-84TXsi which has a built in scaler but it also will not pass a 1080P signal...What you would have to do is get a HDMI switcher such as the Gefen 4X2 (four inputs and 2 outputs) and run your HDMI devices into the switcher and then have one output go to the projector and the other output go to your receiver for the lossless sound...(are you with me?)...I regret not buying this Denon...which "does" pass 1080P through it's 3 inputs....(so you would not need the Gefen switcher in the path.....)...Check it out...If there is a way to return the Pioneer because you just bought it, I would nab this Denon....It's 1080P capable and a couple notches above the Elite I'm afraid.... I posted this site because normally this receiver is about 4000.00 ...Here it is only 2999.99

http://www.bestbuyplasma.com/Plasma/Pro ... _AVR4806CI

Richard...If you decide to go the cheaper route (like I unfortunately have to now)...Buy your switcher here.... http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/ It is 100.00 cheaper than buying straight from Gefen and I already checked, [all their units have the new PCM chip for lossless]... ...(God, this hobby is expensive...BUT I LOVE IT!!!)...

unfortunately the Pioneer doesn't pass 1080P through it's HDMI switching...I have the VSX-74TXvi and also the VSX-84TXsi

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Mine passes 1080P...

Thanks for the post on the switcher! Could come in handy down the line...

Richard...I think you missed my point. Mine will pass 1080P through "passthru" BUT, then you don't have the audio!...are you with me? When you use the passthru function.the audio doesn't come through...The receiver is only acting like a extender. so then if I set my VSX-84TXsi to one of the resolution setting, 480i, 480P, 720P, or 1080i, well obviously well then the sound comes through, but only one of "those" resolutions passthrough for the video signal...I haven't tried the VSX-74TXvi which is similar to your receiver and "doesn't" have a built in scaler. But I assumed that it acts the same as the VSX-84 as far as the passthrough, but come to think of it, maybe the built in scaler is what is messing it up as far as passing the 1080P signal "and" getting the sound through HDMI....Hmmmmm.

Richard!...NEVER MIND!....I am such an IDIOT!...I have a setting I didn't know I have on the 84...call "PURE" in which if I set it to that then whatever HDMI signal is sent will passthrough both the audio and video...There is also a "passthru" mode in which only the video will go through. So now I am set!....and have an extra 4X2 Gefen switcher that I really don't need...I'll keep it anyway....I'll probably use it again somewhere down the road.....

Glad to hear you figured it out... I was wondering how that could be since the 84 is more expensive and the same generation!

These are very complex products. I nearly posted for some help because I could not get the Toshiba player to work with it while the PS3 was fine... somehwere along the way it either changed to component or somehow it was set for component rather than HDMI...

Richard, have you ordered your HD-AX2 yet?...Mine will be here this coming Saturday...It's shipping from VE on the 3rd...I'm gonna have the Pioneer Elite for Blu-ray and the Toshiba HD-AX2 for HD-DVD...(both with 1080P/24 output capability!... Looking forward to visiting with you and discussing our toys... I'm thinking in a couple weeks if that's good for you...I'll PM you...Have fun with that Panny!...

have you ordered your HD-AX2 yet?...
Don't know if I will...

I'm thinking in a couple weeks

Let me know...

You must have HDMI 1.3 to send any of the HD audio bitstreams off the disc to your receiver which will do the decoding. Whether or not this is a better solution is open ended and the importance of that will depend on the end user. Think of this like internal scaling and external scaling; having this capability allows you to bypass the internal decoder of the source. A perfect video example is SDI video from a DVD player; that is the raw video bitstream coming off the disc to feed an external scaler bypassing everything else in the player.

This sounds like the discussions in the past between Vinyl records and compact discs - Vinyl should be best, but with receivers I regarded digital as being best, which is probably a contradiction.

I have got a Denon AVR-2802.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Denon_AVR_2802/ ... ml?tag=sub

http://reviews.cnet.com/Denon_AVR_2802/ ... .html#more

Does this mean that to obtain either:-

1) Dolby Digital Plus
2) Dolby TrueHD and
3) DTS-HD

HD sound, that there would be no need in the future to waste money upgrading to having an AVR with HDMI 1.3?

Is there a guide line to compare how much money I would have to spend on an AVR with HDMI 1.3 to match the HD sound, which I can get from my Denon AVR-2802?

Would I have to use the component sockets to get HD sound?

What happens in 2010, when probably the AACS (encryption) is used to prevent HD signals probably video (pictures) but also audio (sound) from being obtained using component sockets, would I require an AVR with at least HDMI 1.3?

With the Denon AVR-2802 it should be possible to use a preamp, whatever that is with it.

Would it be worth buying a preamp or a new AVR, considering that all HD products must have a chain of HDMI 1.3 connections?

Is it possible to have for example 1920x1080p video through an HDMI 1.3+ connection with HD sound using component even when it is impossible to get HD video through component connections (2010)?

Does this mean that to obtain either:-

1) Dolby Digital Plus
2) Dolby TrueHD and
3) DTS-HD

You have to have an HDMI audio input... HDMI 1.1 minimum which I think is any a/v receiver with an HDMI audio input.. Rodolfo does a great breakdown...

HDMI Part 5 - Audio in HDMI Versions

Is there a guide line to compare how much money I would have to spend on an AVR with HDMI 1.3 to match the HD sound, which I can get from my Denon AVR-2802?

You can

The new codecs are DESIGNED to work without loss of quality across an HDMI V1.1 link when the player does the decoding. There is no reduction in quality implemented by the player or codec if it discovers the link is V1.1 instead of V1.3. The multiple channels of PCM that come across the V1.1 link are the best the new codecs can produce.

Period.

The only thing that V1.3 adds is the ability to send the original, undecoded bitstream format to the receiver for the receiver to decode. Your ability to actually take advantage of this may be limited however. Discs authored in the "advanced content" mode *MUST* be decoded in the player. Most commercial discs are authored this way. The net result is that even with a V1.3 link, and a new receiver with its own decoder for that codec, the decoding still must happen IN THE PLAYER and what comes across the V1.3 link is identical in quality to what would come across a V1.1 link.

Even if decoding does happen in the receiver, what comes out of the codec itself is still the same quality. This is true even if the receiver has a higher internal sampling rate. Such upsampling (which can be applied just as well to a signal coming across the link as PCM) helps insure quality of subsequent processing inside the receiver, but the information coming out of the codec is identical either way.