Smart Antenna technology and DTV

I found the following through a Google Search:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Antennas

Just out of curiosity, what has you searching for information on Smart Antennas?

- Shane

I don't know of any antenna application pr product for DTV that directly applies. Never even heard of the concept until this post. Some of the elements of this concept are already incorporated in DTV receivers as RF signal analysis and processing which has already dramatically improved DTV reception problems. I have not heard of an antenna designed to work with a receiver. Needless to say such an antenna design would likely be proprietary for both receiver and antenna.

If you check the IEEE 802.11n link in the Wikipedia entry you'll find this has to do with PC networking rather than HDTV.

this wireless technology's potential 248 Mbit/s data rate will finally allow consumers to move beyond traditional wired ethernet LANs.

HI -

It is an indoor or "set top" digital unit that has changed in it's ownership quite a lot over the past few years --- current offered as the Zenith name, which was bought by LG in S. Korea.

Unless you live in the shadow of or can "see" your broadcasting towers, I respectfully suggest that you look additionally.

Put a DB-2 or DB-4 or even Richard's suggested Channel Master # 4228 in the back of a closet facing those towers, etc., IF you can not / don't have an attic. Here are all, including your "Silver" ... www.solidsignal.com

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ZHDTV1

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display ... OD=ANC4228

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=AD-DB4
eli

It is not related to a particular brand of antenna.

Check this article in Broadcast Engineering about Smart Antennas and the Digital TV transition:
http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/smart_antennas/

Since these new converter boxes are being advertised "with smart antennas", many folks will be wondering what they are, and why they need them in their box.

I don't know the answer, but from what I've read, it would appear that if you have a box that supports "smart antennas", and you have a "smart antenna" hooked up to it, it may provide you with better reception of digital stations that with a "standard" antenna.

The article above indicates that digital signals may be harder to tune than the current analog signals, and that antenna aiming becomes more tricky unless you utilize a "smart" antenna.

- Miller

Smart antennas for DTV are those that are electronically steered, rather than physically turned. CEA has a standard for controlling such antennas, CEA-909, so that different manufacturers' equipment will work together. Funai and Nxtwave (now part of ATI) led the field, and there are a number of DTV converter boxes with the approved connector to accomplish this. NTIA addressed this in their converter box rules, and allowed boxes the option of including a connector to control appropriate antennas. The RCA 800B is one of 5-6 CECBs that has the electronic steering capability and connector and also approval for NTIA's converter box program.

See: http://www.afterdawn.com/hardware/produ ... ca_dta800b
Smart antenna (Smart antenna)
A smart antenna system combines multiple standard antenna elements with a signal-processing capability to optimize the reception pattern automatically in response to the signal environment. In other words, smart antenna saves the trouble of manually adjusting the antenna for optimal reception.

The DTA5000 antenna is the one most available for TV reception to work with the DTV boxes. See:
http://www.summitsource.com/dx-antenna- ... -6320.html

Tests that I did several years ago with the DTA3500 (an earlier version with its own controller) were impressive. Note that this can work inside, such as an attic, but is weatherproofed and designed for outside mounting. I have a large antenna that physically rotates automatically based on the channel to which I tune through a programmable rotator, but I am thinking of replacing it with one of these electronically steerable arrays. The forward gain of the DTA5000 is less in the main beam of my large antenna, but it is more durable in the high wind / ice environment where I use it (2300 + feet high in the West Virginia mountains, outside of the Grade B countours for ALL stations!).

David Siddall

Hi Again -

I apologize for the incorrect reference - here's a correct one by Channel Master --

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display ... BO-ANC3000

Obviously got .. silver .. / smart ... mixed.

eli

miller and David, thank you for your posts!

Do you either of you know of any full featured DTV receiver using Smart Antenna technology?

I am quite shocked that it took this long for this Smart Antenna question to show up. Not one press release especially during CES 2008, a prime time to inform the industry! This is a fascinating approach for RF antenna reception and DTV and could not come at a better time.

After all these years of manufacturers advertising digital antenna, DTV antenna or HDTV antenna it has finally become true. We will be keeping an eye out for these new products.

This is a great moment to point out how inadequate Wikipedia can be regardless of the intelligent all knowing appearance it portrays. It should always be considered a back up to what you already know (which kind of begs the question of why use it). That said, I am surprised the DTV application is missing.

David, thought you might want to know that DTA5000 link says the product is no longer available. Researching this site further I did find one currently available.

Channel Master 3000A (green)
They are also using the phrase SMARTenna

Doing further quick research Channel Master appears to have the only current Smart Antenna out there. another site for purchasing...
www.SolidSignal.com

To top it off I just updated HDTV: What is it? (DTV)
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3185

Checking the FAQ section I found nothing about this new technology, boxes or antennas. Let the consumer remain uninformed - us too for that matter!

Doing a search on the NTIA site, http://www.ntia.doc.gov/
, I found 177 entries and the top ones are dated for the late 90s

Doing a Google site search of NTIA I found

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnoti ... ule_2e.htm
See sections 39-47 and 94

A PDF titled DTV Convertor Box Coupon Program, Information Sheet for Manufacturers
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/dtvmanufacturers.pdf
See page 1 and 8

We welcome any further information on Smart Antenna products!

Hi Richard,

I found this page while Googling:
http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/

There are several boxes listed there if you search this page for "Smart". I'm not sure how up to date this page is, but perhaps it will give you a start. It was the first Google results while searching for "smart antennas and the digital transition".

Did you read the Wikipedia entry? From the entry:

In 2008, the United States National Telecommunications and Information Administration began a major effort to persuade consumers to purchase digital television converter boxes. Through this effort, many people have been exposed to the concept of smart antennas for the first time. In the context of consumer electronics, a "smart antenna" is one that conforms to the EIA/CEA-909 Standard Interface, such as the model DTA-5000 marketed by Sylvania.

What more did you expect the article to have? I think you underestimate the value of wikipedia. I go there first for all my answers. If I need to verify anything, most of the well-written articles have plenty of references to reliable sources. A few clicks from there and I know everything I need to.

Missing information in Wikipedia is a different story, but that's why you (yes you) can edit the articles to provide the appropriate information. That is the beauty of Wikipedia.

Hey, that gives me an idea: You guys there at HDTV Magazine should start a Wiki. All of the content is licensed such that you can host it on your site, and make articles better where needed. You guys could be the most complete reference on the web for HD info.

Just a thought,

- Miller

Did you read the Wikipedia entry?

I thought I did but I am now embarrased...

Wiki has errors and that has been discussed amongst staff numerous times.

You guys there at HDTV Magazine should start a Wiki.

Are you a mole?

We are in the midst of such a discussion right now. We have our own glossary and two encyclopedias in HD Library that we discussed transferring to our own Wiki and that will be very time consuming on it's own. Going through their stuff on top of it is going to be a problem.

I found what appears to be a pretty comprehensive list of DTV converter boxes and their features at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units

I don't know how accurate it is, but it shows 15 or so of the NTIA-approved boxes having the smart antenna technology and output (which is a RG-45), presumably conforming to CEA-909 specifications.

The DTA-5000 seems to be the only antenna currently (or at least until recently) available that uses this. As far as I can tell, the Channel Master is an omnidirectional antenna, not an electronically steerable "smart" antenna. I did not check on its current availability, but the DTA5000 is manufactured by Funai and has been sold in the U.S. under that brand, and also by Sylvania -- they kept the DTA5000 nomenclature, which is helpful.

I have had a DTA5000 sitting here and plan to try it out later this summer when I get a DTV converter box that will run it. In answer to Richard's question, I do not know of any TVs that integrate this feature, unbelievable as that seems. I can tell you that an earlier version of the DTA5000 was equivalent to one of the smaller yagis in the desired direction, and of course the electronic steering was pretty neat. Clearly there was a lot of work on this technology and adoption of the CEA-909 standard. A pretty high number of converter boxes included it, although I have never heard of some of the brands. But where are the antennas that go with it? It appears that engineers at Nxtwave (now ATI) and Funai understood U.S. TV stations' non-centralized geographic distribution and designed an excellent solution for the problem in the DTV environment, but it hasn't attained traction.

BTW, the principle is the same used by the new WiFi 802.11n devices. In that industry the increased range and higher throughput obtained with the stronger signal that results from electronic steering is taking over the industry.

David Siddall

I believe that the RCA ANT2000 also uses the CEA-909A interface.

As more high-rise apartments are being built around me, I

Hi -

Agree w/ Shane - they DO need input from your set top box or they can not "function" --- does yours have this ?

eli

It is a special antenna the hooks up to a jack that looks somewhat like a phone jack but has an additional cutout.
One of my Digital TV Converter (Coupon box) is an RCA DTA800B1 and it has the jack. Note the DTA.
See this link for further info:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product. ... u=10096792
Pete

My wife refused to let me install a roof or an attic antenna (something about being an old coot). So, I initially tried our old Jasco Optima, non-amplified antenna and found we got fair reception on main floor, and good reception upstairs and was able, if very careful in my aim, to get Channel 41 which is 46miles away. Next, I tried 10 other antennae! I found the Radio Shack 15-1892 was best, but my wife hated having a "Starship with rabbit ears" staring at her, and that we had 2 different settings for Channel 41 and the rest (Ch 2,4,5,9,11,17,23,29 only 16.5miles away).

Finally, I was able to get an RCA ANT2000 from Walmart.com for $64 (less than the $104 Best Buy wanted), and life is great.
Picture is rock stable no pixelation, tolerates you walking around the room (unlike the Jasco) and did not need changing between stations as the RCA DTA800B automatically grabbed the best settings. Later found at Buy.com the ANT2000 for $44 and hooked it up to an RCA DTA809 and got even better reception upstairs than the 'Starship' got as again no need to change the directionality.

Now I just can't wait till RCA comes out with a Plasma or LCD HDTV with the Smart Antenna controller so I can find a reason to buy a new TV, and move our main floor TV to the Basement!

I HIGHLY recommend the RCA ANT2000 Smart Antenna if you live within 20-25 miles of your transmission towers, and especially if you live between transmission towers but you MUST have a DTV Converter box that is Smart Antenna capable and hopefully the TV will be near to follow!

I looked at the actual manual and specifications for this unit online, and it is ONLY an amplified omni-directional antenna, not a Smart Antenna, and not optimal for situations in which weak signals or signals susceptible to mulitpath interference come from transmitters in different directions from the receiver site.

It may be sufficient for suburban locations, and it will work with more than one TV set, tuned to different channels, without favoring one set over another.

A true smart antenna will be optimized for the particular channel that the ATSC tuner or DTV convertor box is set to at the moment.

When using a Smart Antenna (SA), you will have to tell the Convertor or tuner to scan for channels using the full SA capabilities. Since this scan has to try all of the antenna options when checking each channel, the full scan may take as long as 20 or 30 minutes. Once the scan is done, you should not make any major changes to the location of the antenna itself. The tuner will still use the signal strength and quaility measures to continually optimize the signal when tuned to particular channel, but it may not notice that a particular channel is receivable at all if the antenna is not in its intended location when the channel scan is done.

Whether you can manually add a "new" channel later when using the SA will depend on the design of the tuner or convertor box.

When an antenna is used indoors for a marginal signal, I have seen major problems from people, dogs, cats, etc. moving around near the antenna, and using an SA should eliminate or at least reduce this problem.

"Smart", Another "Smoke and Mirror" idea.

Yes, Agreed, you can get greater gain ant's, but the other "smart".

First, remember an antenna is an antenna is an antenna...etc... Some are built better than others and that is about it. However, when you see an add for a small, "smart antenna" that is billed at being as good as a hand optimized/pointed Yagi, my BS meter goes into overload. These antennas used in areas where good signals are available from multiple directions should work well at avoiding multipathing. Contrary to hype, they *are not* going to give the gain or performance of a good yagi, or replace multiple yagi antennas for long distance, weak signal work.

The idea behind smart antennas is sound, and properly applied works very well. My preference would be a receiver that uses this technique between a couple of antennas pointed different directions. IOW the receiver is connected to a couple of antennas through different inputs and selects the best signal between the two for reception on any particular station.

Do not run multiple antennas into a combiner. That *usually* results in the worst results rather than the best as it is generating multi-path problems when they otherwise do not exist.

Just a quick heads up. This antenna is available for very little at Costco ($24.99) and though it does have a CEA-909 connection, you can't adjust the antenna at all via your Smart Antenna compatible system (in this case, a Tivax STB-T8 ).

So for all practical uses, this is not a "smart antenna" even though it does have the interface. One more gotcha in the immature market.

I've been following this industry segment since the announcement of HDTV and I'm still amazed at the lack of Smart Antennas on the market. You would have thought that the market place would be flooded with them.

I attempted to buy a RCA ANT 2000 about 2 weeks ago. My order was cancelled. An E-Mail response to an E-Mail to Audiovox Customer Service told me that this Smart Antenna has been pulled from the market:

"Our apologies but we were recently informed by our headquarters that model
ANT2000 has been pulled from the market, this is the only smart antenna model
that RCA has and there's no information yet given if it will be reintroduced or
if there will be a replacement model for it."

I am now attempting to buy a DX DTA-5000 Smart Antenna to use with a Tivax T8 Converter Box for testing the concept.

I have two DX5000 SA. I use a TIVAX STB-9 converter box with it. The T is SA ready. I can get 19 channels and most of them are up to a 100-miles away. Any channels within 75-miles will hit 100% on the signal meter. I would recommend a SA over any antenna on the market today. Get one and you will not be dissatisfied. I live in the Mississippi Delta and most of the TV stations are in Jackson, MS, (120-miles South) of me. I also get stations out of Little Rock, AR(150-miles NW), Memphis, TN (150-miles N.) and Monroe, LA (90-miles W.)

Harrty

If only more DTV converters and fully featured DTV receivers supported Smart Antenna... Can't believe SA was not part and parcel of the new DTV portables on the market providing the old omni-directional stick antenna instead. Naturally they suck for reception!